Did jfk have a collapsed right lung?

[Drew Phipps]

Well, I guess the first question to ask is, did the Western Company make the frangible ammo?

[Bob Prudhomme]

As far as I know, Western only made the one batch of 6.5 Carcano bullets and they were all full metal jacketed bullets, with the jackets made from copper alloy.

[Albert Doyle]

Just a brief off-topic:


I call Conspiracy Theorists "Factualists" because some think the description "Conspiracy Theorist" is degoratory, which it kind of is. More and more it is associated with nutty-ness and persons with paranoid imaginations rather than people who question government fraud.

There's a simple way to describe the opposite camp in the media: "Liars".

[Drew Phipps]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Bob Prudhomme]

page 62: "There is one piece of information concerning the neck and upper thorax wounds that establishes beyond any doubt that (1) the particular bullet traced to Oswald's rifle and alleged by the Commission to have penetrated the President's neck could not have produced the damage attributed to it, and (2) military ammunition of the general type attributed to Oswald could not have caused these wounds. This information came to light in the report of the Clark Panel.


Describing antero-posterior X-ray views of the lower neck region, the Panel Report declared, "Also several small metallic fragments are present in this region." 25 This observation by the Panel vitiates Dr. Humes's sworn testimony to the Commission that the X rays revealed no metallic fragments in the neck region (2H361).


Nevertheless, the knowledge that there were metallic fragments in the neck, regardless of their number, size, or distribution, is sufficient to eliminate the possibility that military ammunition of the type attributed to Oswald was responsible for the neck wounds. As previously noted, full-jacketed military bullets are constructed so that they will not fragment in soft tissue. Even if a bone in the neck region were struck (the official story is that no bone in President Kennedy's neck region was struck), it is unlikely that this military ammunition of medium velocity could have produced "several small" fragments and no large ones."

Edited for formatting and readability

Not wishing to dispute this author's conclusions but, it is not exactly true that a typical full metal jacket bullet cannot leave fragments in a wound, especially if it contacts something hard that may deform it (ie. bone).

To explain this, we have to look at how a FMJ bullet is constructed. Contrary to popular belief, most FMJ bullets, including WCC 6.5mm Carcanos, do not have a jacket that fully encompasses the lead core. In the case of the 6.5mm Carcano, the lead core at the base of the bullet is exposed, showing a 4.5mm circle of lead.

This is done partly as part of the manufacturing process and partly to maintain the "humane" properties of a FMJ bullet. This 4.5 mm gap in the base of the copper alloy jacket acts as a sort of "pressure relief valve". If the copper jacket completely sealed in the lead core, problems would begin when the bullet struck anything hard, like a bone. Upon striking bone, bullets tend to flatten and reduce the amount of space within the jacket. With no vent at the base, the reduced space would compress the soft lead core and internal jacket pressures would elevate. Once the pressures became high enough, the copper jacket would rupture, spreading the lead and jacket all over and creating a horrible wound.

However, with the open base, flattening of the bullet merely allows the soft lead to extrude from the base of the bullet in little flakes, much like toothpaste from a tube. It is possible to see several of these flakes of lead in the x-rays taken of John Connally's wrist, and, in my opinion, to determine which end of the bullet was pointing where when the bullet struck the radius bone in Connally's wrist, travelling sideways (or tumbling).



Photo showing FMJ bullet with open base and FMJ bullet with "copper cap" on base to reduce airborne lead particles at indoor ranges.

[Drew Phipps]

I don't think the author is meaning to say that a FMJ can't leave fragments, he's saying that the number and character of the fragments in JFK's neck (or head) isn't consistent with FMJ ammo. By which I assume he means that in a passage through soft tissue (as is allegedly the case with the passage through JFK's neck) the FMJ won't leave fragments.

By the time the bullet (of whatever type) has reached Connally's wrist, it has contacted at least 1 bone, and we should expect fragments.

One other possibility: Connally's bullet was FMJ, and Kennedy's bullets weren't.

[Bob Prudhomme]

I don't think the author is meaning to say that a FMJ can't leave fragments, he's saying that the number and character of the fragments in JFK's neck (or head) isn't consistent with FMJ ammo. By which I assume he means that in a passage through soft tissue (as is allegedly the case with the passage through JFK's neck) the FMJ won't leave fragments.

By the time the bullet (of whatever type) has reached Connally's wrist, it has contacted at least 1 bone, and we should expect fragments.

One other possibility: Connally's bullet was FMJ, and Kennedy's bullets weren't.

"One other possibility: Connally's bullet was FMJ, and Kennedy's bullets weren't"

Now you're thinking!

[Bob Prudhomme]

"Yes, I see what you mean. According to the WC, the Magic Bullet only passed through flesh on the way through JFK and, if it was indeed an FMJ, it should not leave any metal fragments behind in JFK.

However, we all know the Magic Bullet could not have followed the path believed by the WC without going through the vertebral bones.

[Bob Prudhomme]

bump

[Mark Wengler]

Connally had a collapsed lung