Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live

[David Guyatt]

...but I sense an air of near desperation in the post MH17 Anglo-US posturing; as though they sense just how close they are to their whole house of cards collapsing around their ears.

Not everyone has a death wish nor to they intend to go down with the ship. Some are looking for the life boats right now.

• BOMBSHELL: It Has Begun- Germany to Break From US/UK, Join Russia/China Alliance!
  

I think if Germany goes over to the other side it will be all over red rover for the US $ sooner rather than later.

I'm with you Maggie and you too, Peter. I'm not sure if wishful thinking is colouring my spectacles, but it really does have that sense of the beginning of the end to the whole NATO thing. For me, I think the destruction of the Euro (in my mind a deeply political event) was the trigger point.

However, might we also be seeing Orwell's 1984 in action here with "perpetual war" amongst a US led Oceania (UK and USA waged from Airstrip One - formerly Great Britain) and a Eurasian sphere of continental Europe and Russia, with an emerging Eastaia also coming into being?

The Wiki intro on 1984 is worth reading for it is worryingly accurate (or maybe it's just me?):

Nineteen Eighty-Four

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nineteen Eighty-Four, sometimes published as 1984, is a dystopian novel by George Orwell published in 1949.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP] The novel is set in Airstrip One (formerly known as Great Britain), a province of the superstate Oceania in a world of perpetual war, omnipresent government surveillance, and public manipulation, dictated by a political system euphemistically namedEnglish Socialism (or Ingsoc in the government's invented language, Newspeak) under the control of a privileged Inner Partyelite that persecutes all individualism and independent thinking as "thoughtcrimes".[SUP][3][/SUP]

[Danny Jarman]

It looks like France, Germany and continental Europe know the real story and say Nyet!

Crashing the slowly recovering Euro by sanctions against Russia and their gas, would only help to support a gradually asphyxiating dollar.

Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash: France and Germany accused of going soft on Putin as sanctions talks stall



Countries reliant on Russian trade putting money before morality' after MH17 crash

OLIVER WRIGHT , JOHN LICHFIELD


Monday 21 July 2014

American and British attempts to persuade other European leaders to impose a package of tough new EU sanctions on Russia appeared to have stalled this evening.

Senior French and German diplomatic sources indicated that they were unlikely to back British proposals for new wide-ranging restrictions on key Russian energy, finance and defence firms.
Privately, senior British government sources admit that resistance from other European capitals means it is unlikely that new sanctions will be agreed at a meeting of foreign ministers in Brussels tomorrow, although they stress that the situation is "fluid".
An agreement was reached on Monday night at the UN Security Council when Russia joined other nations in voting for an independent investigation into the Malaysia Airlines disaster and an end to military activity in eastern Ukraine, after a sometimes emotional session in New York.
The Russians faced harsh criticism however for their handling of the separatists. But the promise by rebels to belatedly hand over to Malaysian authorities the black boxes from the destroyed flight MH17, as well as the start today of the repatriation process of those killed on the plane, has strengthened the hand of those arguing thatfurther sanctions could hamper future Russian co-operation.
Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash: Dutch newspapers respond with anger and despair as wait for return of bodies continues
1 of 10

• [*=center]
  

Much, British officials say, will depend on the position of the Dutch, who lost 193 citizens in the crash, and whether they calculate that the imposition or threat of further sanctions will help or hinder the investigation into the attack.
The Dutch Prime Minister, Mark Rutte, said today that "all political, economic and financial options" were on the table if access did not improve to the area in eastern Ukraine where the Malaysian airliner went down, killing all 298 people on board.
In a statement to the House of Commons David Cameron made plain his frustration with other European leaders, including the French President, François Hollande, and the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, for being too cautious in imposing wide-ranging trade bans.
Singling out France he suggested that Mr Hollande should suspend the delivery of two Mistral warships that are due to be handed over to Russia in October.
"We would not sell further arms to Russia [and] we believe other European countries should be doing the same.
"Frankly, in this country it would be unthinkable to fulfil an order like the one outstanding that the French have."
READ MORE: WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT RUSSIAN CLAIMS
EVIDENCE MOUNTING OF PRO-RUSSIAN LINK TO ATTACK
RUSSIAN AUTHORITIES POINT FINGER AT UKRAINIAN JET

But Mr Cameron said "for too long" there had been reluctance on the part of "too many European countries" to face up to "implications of what is happening in eastern Ukraine".
Raising the spectre of the Second World War, Mr Cameron added that Europe should need no reminding of the "consequences of turning a blind eye when big countries bully smaller countries".
"We should not shrink from standing up for the principles that govern conduct between independent nations in Europe and which ultimately keep the peace on our continent," he said. "It is time to make our power, influence and resources felt."
Among the sanctions for which the UK is understood to be pushing are measures against the Russian airline Aeroflot, which last month launched a low-cost subsidiary Dobrolyot whose maiden flight connected Moscow with the recently annexed Crimea.
Diplomatic sources said on Monday night that negotiations on an EU response were "still very fluid" ahead of the talks but that the most likely outcome was a speeding up in the process of naming individuals and companies banned from doing business in Europe because of their direct involvement in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
There could also be a renewed threat of so-called Tier 3 sanctions targeted at sectors of the Russian economy such as finance, oil and gas or defence.
But Britain is far more hawkish than Paris and Berlin, which fear that the immediate imposition of further sanctions could be counter-productive. They worry that it could hamper Russian co-operation into the crash investigation as well as making it harder domestically for President Putin to withdraw support from Ukrainian separatists.
"Sanctions are a means to achieve a goal but are not a goal themselves," said a German diplomatic source.
"They are really only useful if they continue to be a threat."
READ MORE: AN AUDIENCE WITH ALEXANDER BORODAI
VICTIMS' BODIES FINALLY LEAVE UKRAINE
MALAYSIA AIRLINES TO 'FILE FOR BANKRUPTCY OR GO PRIVATE'

French officials added that they expected the foreign ministers meeting would probably lead to renewed threats of stronger sanctions but will make few firm decisions.
Paris also does not want to be railroaded into a ban on military sales to Moscow that could force it to renege upon the Mistral deal.
But America is keen for Europe to take a much stronger line with Mr Putin in part because 50 per cent of Russia's trade is with the EU.
Speaking at the White House, President Barack Obama said Vladimir Putin had to "get serious" about quelling the hostilities in eastern Ukraine and to use his influence over separatists there to stop getting in the way of an international investigation of the downing of Flight MH17.
"The separatists are removing evidence from the crash site," Mr Obama asserted, as well as impeding the access of investigators. "All of which begs the question: what exactly are they trying to hide?"
Mr Putin, he said, had "direct responsibility" to compel the separatists to get out of the way of international investigators, warning Moscow it will be penalised further if it doesn't act. Mr Obama made no mention of any divisions between the US and Europe on how far those sanctions might be taken.
"If Russia continues to violate Ukraine's sovereignty… then Russia will only further isolate itself from the international community and the cost of Russia's behaviour will continue to increase," the US President insisted.

Ha ha ha ha. The America/UK double act is surely a laughing stock now. Germany and France are probably thinking "FFS how much longer do we have to put up with these clowns".

What will The US/UK now do to get France and Germany to be tougher on Russia? Another fine on their banks? Another false flag?

Fuck it, why not just bomb everything and everyone untill there is no one but the US?

These lunatics are so unpredictable, and Putin definitely knows that.

Like David says in the post above...everything is eerily like 1984.

[R.K. Locke]

Troublemaking Washington: Pushing Ukraine to the Brink

by MIKE WHITNEY

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/09/p...-the-brink

So all Putin has to do is sit tight and he wins, mainly because the EU needs Moscow's gas. If energy supplies are terminated or drastically reduced, prices will rise, the EU will slide back into recession, and Washington will take the blame. So Washington has a very small window to draw Putin into the fray, which is why we should expect another false flag incident on a much larger scale than the fire in Odessa. Washington is going to have to do something really big and make it look like it was Moscow's doing. Otherwise, their pivot plan is going to hit a brick wall.

The date of publication? 9 July 2014.

Great article...can't believe I've never heard of this guy before.

I posted this back on page 2, guys.

[Paul Rigby]

Riddled with disinformation, but the escort-as-routine concession - the better to sell the rest of the nonsense - is nevertheless of interest:

"All flights, including Malaysian B777, were being escorted by Ukrainian Su-27 Flanker jets over Eastern Ukraine"

By David Cenciotti

Jul 21 2014

http://theaviationist.com/2014/07/21/su-...rted-mh17/

According to an authoritative source, two Su-27 Flankers escorted the Malaysian Boeing 777 minutes before it was hit by one or more missiles.
There are still too many unanswered questions about the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17 over eastern Ukraine on Jul. 17, 2014. Among them, one of the most important deals with the possible error made by the operator inside the SA-11 "Gadfly" ("Buk") TELAR (transporter erector launcher and radar) who did fire one or more missiles against a civilian plane.

Indeed, the operators inside the Buk could "read" the Boeing 777′s altitude and transponder and could easily identify the civilian plane enroute from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur flying at FL300 inside the eastern Ukraine's airspace.

Why did they mistake a large civilian plane for a smaller Ukrainian Air Force surveillance plane?

Just a matter of poor training?

Iranian defense expert Babak Taghvaee believes the mistake was caused by the fact the Malaysian Boeing 777 was escorted over eastern Ukraine. Taghvaee is always very well informed and an extremely reliable source. Therefore, after he provided some details about this activity of the Ukrainian Air Force on ACIG forum thread about the war in Ukraine, we contacted him for some more insight.

Here's what he wrote to us.

"When the Crimea crisis began, the Ukrainian Air Force air command center quickly forward deployed six Su-27s to the Kulbakino AB. Since beginning of the crisis and the Russia intervention, the 831st TAB has the important task to provide air defense as well as security of whole country. Six fully armed Flankers have always been in the sky especially when the other Ukrainian Air Force airplanes such as transporters and attackers like Fulcrums and Rooks were in the East of Ukraine," explains Taghvaee.

"But when the Su-25M1 was shot down by the Russia Air Force 6969th AB's MiG-29 on Jul. 16, the situation and condition became more critical than previous days and more Su-27 sorties were conducted to confront Russian MiG-29s. I believe those two Su-27s were not in sky just for standard practice in that day [Jul. 17], I believe they were involved in HAVCAP (High Asset Value Combat Air Patrol) mission sortie in that day."

In other words: since the Russian interceptors had downed a Su-25 on the previous days, the Ukrainian escorted all military and civil flights over eastern Ukraine on Jul. 17. Including MH17.

"During the UEFA 2012, the 831st TAB and its Flankers had same role, during those competitions they had duty to escort the airliners in FL330 and other routes in case emergency. They played same role during the Sochi Winter Olympics in Russia. They were airborne and they even escorted a hijacked airplane. They were also ready to provide security of all passenger airplanes over Ukraine. They are now following same procedure and they could protect all of the airplanes over Ukraine in-front of Russians since Jul 16."

Provided the Su-27s were really escorting or (more likely) watching from their CAP station many, if not all, civil flights over Eastern Ukraine for the first time ever on Jul. 17, in the wake of the downing of the Su-25, the operators inside the Buk may have mistaken the Boeing 777 shadowed by/near two Flankers for a high-value plane of the Ukrainian Air Force. On their radar screens, the sight of a large plane with two accompanying (or circling in CAP not too far away) fighter jets was completely new and may only mean the Ukrainians were escorting an important plane. And that would be the reason why they downed it without spending too much time analysing its transponder code and altitude.

H/T Babak Taghvaee and ACIG.info

[Paul Rigby]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mwy9zl4ys8kpg...4pphI0Sa#/

[Paul Rigby]

Kiev Censors MH17 Air Traffic Control Recordings

[video=youtube_share;ND-4RgakhJw]http://youtu.be/ND-4RgakhJw[/video]

[Peter Lemkin]

British air accident investigators will retrieve data from the black boxes of crashed flight MH17, UK Prime Minister David Cameron has said.
This follows a request by authorities in the Netherlands, where the Malaysia Airlines plane flew from before crashing in Ukraine.
The experts, based at Farnborough, will download data from the flight recorders for "international analysis".
Some 298 people, including 10 Britons, were killed in the crash.
Mr Cameron tweeted: "We've agreed Dutch request for air accident investigators at Farnborough to retrieve data from MH17 black boxes for international analysis."
Downing Street said information retrieved would be sent on to a Dutch and Ukrainian team for analysis.
The announcement comes after Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond joined other EU ministers in Brussels for talks about the shooting down of the Boeing 777-200 airliner in eastern Ukraine last Thursday.
Special roomThe Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) confirmed it would be working on the flight recorders which have been handed over by pro-Russian rebels.
Malaysian Colonel Mohamed Sakri, who received the MH17 black boxes, said they were in the hands of the Dutch military and would be taken to the UK.

Analysis
Jonathan Sumberg, BBC transport reporter
Why are the black boxes being examined in the UK? The British Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) tell me they are one of only two so-called "replay units" in Europe with the necessary equipment to listen to what has been recorded on the cockpit voice recorder. The other is in France.
They have the kit to analyse in minute detail what can be heard in the last few minutes of flight MH17. The information is incredibly sensitive so investigators gather in a sealed room so that only those who should be listening can listen.
There are four speakers on the walls creating a surround sound - anything to help the investigators hear exactly what went on. They may even hear any explosion.
The AAIB will not tell me when they expect to get their hands on the black boxes. But investigators are confident that, depending on the extent of the damage, they can retrieve information from the boxes within 24 hours.

One of the boxes records technical information relating to the performance of the aircraft and the other takes down sounds such as pilots' voices and, potentially, an explosion.
BBC transport reporter Jonathan Sumberg said it was unclear how useful the recorders would be.
Investigators will be able to collect information as long as there is no damage to the black boxes, which are designed to withstand a plane crash.
One former air accident investigator told the BBC that the cockpit recorder might be able to detect the sound of shrapnel.
Crash investigators from Malaysia were among those who inspected the scene on Tuesday
BBC transport correspondent Richard Westcott said he had visited the room at Farnborough where the work is to be carried out.
He said: "It's quite a phenomenal kind of laboratory where they go in. They seal the door, no-one can have any kind of device that will listen in to the conversation in the cockpit - because it's obviously incredibly stressful if something like that gets out for families and so on - and then they will listen to what was actually happening on board."
He added: "We were always going to be involved as a country, this is us doing our bit because we've got the right facilities."
Toys and flowers have been placed among the debris as tributes to those who died
David Gleave, an aviation safety researcher at Loughborough University, said he did not think the data could have been tampered with, as has been suggested, in such a short space of time.
"In this case, if it was a missile attack, it's likely there'll also be lots of physical evidence so how would you remove that or tamper with it? There's no point tampering with the boxes if you couldn't remove the physical evidence as well," he said.
Victim identificationDutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said a train carrying the bodies of those who had died had arrived in Kharkiv, which is outside rebel territory in Ukraine, and the black boxes destined for the UK were on board.
Dutch officials later said that only 200 bodies had arrived in Kharkiv - not 282 as claimed by the rebels.
The first aircraft containing bodies are expected to arrive in Eindhoven on Wednesday.
A Metropolitan Police-led team of officers will go to the Netherlands to help with the process of identifying the victims.
A satellite image released on Tuesday shows the main crash site of MH17
Western leaders accuse Russia of arming the rebels, and believe they shot down flight MH17 with a ground-to-air missile.
But Russia has suggested Ukrainian government forces are to blame.
Experts who have visited the crash scene so far include four from the Ukrainian civil aviation department, one from Malaysia Airlines, two from Malaysia's department for civil aviation and three Dutch pathologists, according to Michael Bociurkiw of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe.


More on This Story

[Paul Rigby]

Kiev Censors MH17 Air Traffic Control Recordings

[video=youtube_share;ND-4RgakhJw]http://youtu.be/ND-4RgakhJw[/video]

The strange case of Carlos the Spanish air controller

http://iouco.tumblr.com/post/92543598069...controller

Picture of Carlos published by the Vietnamese site "Vietnam Plus" http://www.vietnamplus.vn/chuyen-vien-kh...271658.vnp

(Note: this is a work in progress. My intention is to know who is Carlos. Where is he? Why he has disappeared?) I am a citizen from Barcelona who is living in Lithuania. I am using a nick-name but I am not an avatar or a fake profile. I have not any connection with Russian secret services or with Russia. I am not member of any organization, political party or agency. I try to be honest when I write about the Ukrainian conflict. I have to admit that sometimes I am biased since I have been always a moderately left-wing person. There are millions of citizens in Catalonia or Spain that are also left-wing like me. This is why since the beginning I have been active against maidan. When I saw the people that were involved in that movement (the neo-nazis of "Pravy Sektor" and fascists of "Svoboda") I immediatly thought that I had to do something to fight against them. Sorry for my English that is far from perfect)

Some thoughts and information about Carlos, the Spanish aircontroller who said that was working in Borispol airport (Kiev) when the Malaysian Boeing was shot down (according to him the Boeing was shot down by jets following instructions of Kiev Junta)

Carlos gave an interview to RT en Español (May 8th 2014). Check the link below. I am following him in twitter since march 2014.One of my friends is following him since January 2014. He said that he was traffic air controller in Ukraine BEFORE the Malaysian plane tragedy happened. The account of Carlos was created in 2010. Before Maidan he posted a lot of stuff there (I read many of his posts with my own eyes….tweets about his life, travels, football, bullshitting etc….anything about politics). On friday 18th at 7 pm (Lithuanian time) I was at home watching BBC World News and it appeared a flash with the breaking news, a Boeing of Malaysia Airlines crashed somewhere near the Russian border in the Donbass region.

I went to twitter around 7.30 pm (Lithuanian time) and I saw the tweets of Carlos. I copied many of them. He was tweeting for around 2 hours. I was copying his tweets and pasted them in a note in facebook respecting his ortography and the way he wrote them (check below). Later at mid-night I tried to connect again and the account was deleted. And he "disappeared" misteriously.

Who is Carlos? I have analyzed the interview given to RT en Español. He has not foreign accent… I mean he is for sure a Spanish citizen probably from the region of Madrid, Castilla or North of Spain (he deffinetively is not from South America or from the region of Andalucia). Where is he now? The amazing thing of Carlos is that he could not know that the Malaysian plane crashed before 7 pm since BBC World News didn't say anything about the crash till 7 pm (Lithuanian time). And when I went to his twitter account he already had posted a lot of tweets. If he was not in Borispol aircontrol tower (and he was lying) how he was able to tweet about the Malaysian airplane crash before the news were broadcasted by the mass-media? How he could do that? Some people have been doing "investigation" about Carlos. Some magazines and sites like "Global Research" said that they discovered (by the IP) he was tweeting from London. Other Spanish magazine told that they sent a message to Carlos and he answered with a IP from Romania. I think any of them know anything about where he was tweeting from. The fact that the Spanish Embassy in Kiev didn't know anything about "Carlos" does not prove anything. Myself I have been living in Lithuania for 8 years and the Embassy only knew about me 3 years ago when I was forced to renovate my passport. The Spanish law does not force the Spanish citizens to register in the Embassies or Consulates. This is an option that can be useful for voting or bureaucratic stuff but is not required by the Spanish authorities. The Ukrainian "authorities" (it means maidan regime) said that according to the Ukrainian law (which law? in Ukraine does not exist such a thing) a foreigner can not work as air traffic controller. But of course what are they going to tell? Also they are telling us that the airplane was shot down by the " pro-russians terrorists" and we know that this is not true.

I don't find any rational explanation for Carlos and his tweets. Maybe he is just a crazy man with the incredible talent of tweeting about the events at the same time the events were happening (how he managed to tweet furiously about the Malaysian plane at the same time the events were happening if he was in London, Romania or Spain?). Where is Carlos now? If he is alive why he is hidding? I reproduce here the note that I posted on 18/07/2014.

Also I include a link with the interview that Carlos gave to RT en Español on May 8th 2014.

http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view...nia-crisis

I include the snapshots of Carlos tweets in this folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mwy9zl4ys8kpg...mB4pphI0Sa

I also include (at the end of the note) a translation of the tweets of Carlos the day of the tragedy (in English). One of my friends sent me the translation into English. I repeat again that when I started to write this note I simply was chosing the tweets that I considered more interesting (so I didn't copy all of them but only the ones that I thought were interesting). But some people managed to copy all his tweets and translate them into English. All the tweets are in the folder I included above in a dropbox folder.



I wrote this post on 18th July 2014 (the day of the Malaysian airline crash)

Please friends….I forward this information. There is a Spanish aircontroller working at Kiev Borispol airport…he said that the Malaysian airplane was shot down by two Ukrainian jets. Even the Ukrainian militars know that. Also it looks that the Ukrainian military were organizing a coup against Poroshenko. He says that the air traffic control tower where he is working is now occupied by foreign agents. I reproduce here his tweets. He says that the order to shoot down the Malaysian airline is not coming from the military but from the interior ministry or from outside. Use please the google translator if you don't speak Spanish. Carlos is a well-known person in Spain. He is a simple guy. He was posting his stuff in twitter for many years. Pictures of his family, his travels etc…But in January 2014 he started to write negative posts against maidan. He was living in Kiev and he was threated by the maidanites. He was forced to move to Spain with his family. He is using a pretty funny Spanish sometimes (words that come from Bilbao, city where his family is living). Later he came back to Kiev again since he is working as an air traffic controller there and he is a very stubborn person. I am following him in twitter since march 2014. Their posts are usually very funny. Time to time I was sharing his thoughts. Right now he has become a "key person" in all this tragedy since he was on the air traffic control tower in Borispol controlling the radars. By the way I was born in Barcelona. Sorry for my English since is far from perfect.
ORIGINAL IN SPANISH LANGUAGE

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

Los militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior conocían en cada momento lo que sucedió, .

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

Mandos militares aquí (ATC) torre de control, confirman que el misil es del ejercito de ukraine,

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

Yo no formó parte de este conflicto, como el 80/100 de los ciudadanos de aquí que solo quieren vivir en paz, pro uno y pro otros.

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

La forma de tomar la torre de control minutos después sabiendo todo los detalles, rápido nos hizo pensar que habían sido ellos.

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

290 personas inocentes muertas, . Por una guerra inútil, donde el patriotismo se compra con dinero.

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

A los 7:00 minutos se notificó el derribo, más tarde se tomó la torre nuestra con personal extranjero q siguen aquí

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

Hace dias lo dije aquí, militares de kiev querían alzarse contra el actual presidente, esto puede ser una forma, a las órdenes de timoshenko

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

Militares confirman que fue ukraine, pero se sigue sin saber de donde vino la orden

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

Aquí los mandos militares manejan y admiten que militares a otras órdenes, pudieron ser, pero no, los pro-rusos

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

En los radares esta todo recogido, para los incrédulos, derribado por kiev, aquí lo sabemos y control aéreo militar también

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

Nada más desaparecer el avión B 777 de Malaysia Airlines la autoridad militar de kiev nos informo del derribo, como lo sabían?

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

A los 7:00 minutos se notificó el derribo, más tarde se tomó la torre nuestra con personal extranjero q siguen aquí

Retweeted Carlos. (@spainbuca):

Los cazas volaron cerca del 777, hasta 3 minutos antes de desaparecer de los radares, solo 3 minutos.

(TRANSLATION INTO ENGLISH)

The soldiers under the orders of Interior Minister knew at all times what happened.Military commanders here (ATC) control tower, confirm that the missile is the army of ukraine,I was not part of this conflict, as 80/100 citizens here who just want to live in peace, and one pro pro others.How to take the control tower minutes after knowing all the details, fast made us think that they were.290 dead innocent people. What a useless war, where patriotism is bought with money.At 7:00 minutes the demolition was notified later the tower was taken with our foreign staff still here Days ago I said here, kiev military wanted to rise against the current president, this may be a way to timoshenko ordersMilitary ukraine confirm that he was, but still does not know where the order cameHere the military commanders who manage and support to other military orders, could be, but no, the pro-Russian):In radar this all collected, for unbelievers, brought down by kiev, here we know and military air traffic control alsoJust disappear aircraft B 777 Malaysia Airlines kiev military authority informed us of the demolition, as you know?):At 7:00 minutes the demolition was notified later the tower was taken with our foreign staff still here q):The fighters flew about 777, up to 3 minutes before disappearing from the radar, just 3 minutes.

(TRANSLATION INTO RUSSIAN)

Испанский авиадиспетчер, который выходит в сеть под ником Carlos Spainbuca и работает в аэропорту Борисполь в Киеве, сообщает, что военные диспетчеры послали отчет правительству в Киев, в нем говорится, что ракета сбившая малазийский Боинг, была пущена не с территории, контролируемой повстанцами. Он утверждает, что самолет мог быть сбит украинскими ракетами."Истребители сопровождали 777 три минуты до того, как он исчез с радаров, только три минуты";"Это Киев его сбил, Киев, они должны его искать, у нас есть подтверждение, Киев его сбил, мы здесь все спокойны";"Здесь всем командуют военные, это не пророссийские силы, военные подтверждают, что был приказ, только мы не знаем, откуда именно"

-

Other translation into English that I got from a friend :

Spanish air traffic controllers working in Kiev, wrote on his twitter:

"Before They take away our phones or will smash our heads,I will say tat Aircraft was hit by Kiev"

The Spaniard has left more than 20 posts, of which referred to two ukrainian fighters that accompanied the plane until the loss of communication with him.

Carlos messages in order:

1: Aviakatastrof, a passenger plane crashed in Ukraine, Donetsk region

2: Aviokatastrof, plane 777, in the area of Donetsk

3: B 777 "Malaysia Airline" crashed in Ukraine, on the border with Russia

4: B 777 "Malaysia Airline" 280 passengers. Crashed in Donetsk, Ukraine.

5: Kiev authorities are trying to make it look like an attack from pro-Russian militias

6: WARNING! Perhaps B 777 was shot down in Ukraine. 280 Passengers

7: This is how! Looks Kiev got what he wanted.

8: In Kiev again control of the tower was seized .

9: Confirmed: The B 777 lost on the radar, there were no reports of any abnormalities.

10: The plane was shot down, it is not an accident

11: Kiev got what he wanted. I have already mentioned in previous tweets

12: This is not an ordinary plane crash. They Threaten us in the control room.

13: At any time, they will take away phones

14: Before they take away phones, or will break my head, it Kiev who nocked the plane.

15: We have proof . Plane shot down. Kiev authorities are already disposes information. Shot down. Now we are calm.

16: What do foreign agents doing in the control tower? Gathering information.

17: When it is possible, continue to write.

18: B 777 aircraft flew in with two Ukrainian fighter, just until it disappeared from radar.

19: If the Kiev authorities want to tell the truth, the two fighters flew next few minutes before they knocked the plane.

20: Immediately after the B 777 missing, Kiev military reported the fall of the plane. How do they know?

21: At 7:00 am informed about the downing of the aircraft, and later our dispatch office was captured by Foreigners and they are still here.. Foreigners are still here.

22: For Non believers Evrything detected by Radars radars . Plane was shot down by Kiev. We all know it, and the military, too.

23: Here the military acknowledged that it could make another war, but do not know who ordered.

24: Military suspect that Ukraine did it.. But do not know where the order came from.

25: A few days ago I said that the military want to remove Poroshenko. Perhaps this is the case, and order was by Tymoshenko.

26: Fighter aircraft flew over, and just 3 minutes later he was gone. Total 3 minutes.

27: Close the airspace.

-

THIS DOCUMENT WITH THE TRANSLATIONS CAN BE FOUND IN THIS LINK:http://pastebin.com/jHcqkbF0

-

#MH17 bombshell: #Boeing777 #Malaysia #Russia #Ukraine:



Retrieved and translated tweets from an silenced air traffic controller. This is the first major leak which points to a foul play regarding the crash of MH77. If you read these tweets you will come to a conclusion that Malaysian jetliner was shot down in Ukraine by Ukrainian government to escalate the war with Russia and pro Russians fighting in Donetsk.

But before you make up your mind, please read them all.

Here are the actual tweets of @spainbuca who is/was an air traffic controller.

-

Translated from Spanish by Luis Lopez

Source: Tweets by Spanish Air Controller - @spainbuca [account now deleted]

-

10:21 17 de jul. de 2014 Autoridades de kiev, intentan hacer que pueda parecer un ataque de los pro-rusos

"Kiev Authorities, trying to make it look like an attack by pro-Russians"

10:24 17 de jul. de 2014 Ojo! Que puede ser un derribo B777 Malaysia Airlines en ukraine, 280 pasajeros

"warning! It can be a downing, Malaysia Airlines B777 in ukraine, 280 passengers"

10:25 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuidado! Kiev tiene lo que buscaba

"Warning! Kiev have what they wanted"

10:25 17 de jul. de 2014 Vuelven a tomar la torre de control en Kiev

"[Miitary] has taken control of ATC in Kiev"

10:27 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B777 de Malaysia Airlines desapareció del radar, no hubo comunicación de ninguna anomalia, confirmado

"The Malaysia Airlines B777 plane disappeared from the radar, there was no communication of any anomaly, confirmed"

10:30 17 de jul. de 2014 Avión derribado, derribados, derribado no accidente

"Plane shot down, shot down, shot down, no accident"

10:31 17 de jul. de 2014 Kiev, tiene lo que buscaba, lo dije en los primeros tw, kiev es responsable @ActualidadRT

"Kiev have what they wanted, I said in the first tw [Tweets], Kiev is responsible @ ActualidadRT"

10:35 17 de jul. de 2014 Un accidente muy normal no es, no están amenazando en la misma torre del aeropuerto de kiev,

"An accident that is not quite normal, they are threatening us in the same tower of Kiev airport"

10:35 17 de jul. de 2014 Nos van a quitar, nuestros tlf y demás de un momento a otro

"they will take from our phones and others stuff at any moment"

10:38 17 de jul. de 2014 Antes de que me quiten el tlf o me rompan la cabeza, derribado por Kiev

"Before They remove my phone or they break my head, shot down by Kiev"

11:12 17 de jul. de 2014 Nosotros tenemos la confirmación. Avión derribado, la autoridad de kiev, ya tiene la información, derribado, estamos tranquilos ahora

"We have confirmation. Plane downed, Kiev authorities already have the information, downed, we are calm now"

11:13 17 de jul. de 2014 Que hace personal extranjero con autoridades de kiev en la torre? Recopilando toda la información

"What are doing foreigners with kiev authorities in the tower? Gathering all the information"

11:15 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuando sea posible sigo escribiendo

"When possible I´ll keep writing"

11:48 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B 777 voló escoltado por 2 cazas de ukraine hasta minutos antes, de desaparecer de los radares,

The B777 plane flew escorted by Ukraine jet fighter until 2 minutes before disappearing from the radar,

11:54 17 de jul. de 2014 Sí las autoridades de kiev, quieren decir la verdad, esta recogido 2 cazas volaron muy cerca minutos antes , no lo derribo un caza

"If kiev authorities want to tell the truth, It´s gathered, 2 jet fighters flew very close minutes before, wasn't downed by a fighter"

12:00 17 de jul. de 2014 Nada más desaparecer el avión B 777 de Malaysia Airlines la autoridad militar de kiev nos informo del derribo, como lo sabían?

"Malaysia Airlines B777 plane just disappeared and Kiev military authority informed us of the downing, How they knew?"

12:00 17 de jul. de 2014 A los 7:00 minutos se notificó el derribo, más tarde se tomó la torre nuestra con personal extranjero q siguen aquí

"7:00 minutes after [plane disappeared], the downing was notified, later our tower was taken with foreigner staff, they still here "

12:01 17 de jul. de 2014 En los radares esta todo recogido, para los incrédulos, derribado por kiev, aquí lo sabemos y control aéreo militar también

"all this is gathered in radars, to the unbelieving, shot down by kiev, here we know it and military air traffic control also"

13:15 17 de jul. de 2014 Aquí los mandos militares manejan y admiten que militares a otras órdenes, pudieron ser, pero no, los pro-rusos

"Here the military commanders are in control and admit that the military could be following other orders , but no, the pro-Russian"

13:29 17 de jul. de 2014 El ministro del interior si conocía que, hacían los cazas en la zona, el ministro de defensa no, .

"Interior Minister knew what the fighters were doing in the area, the defense minister didn't."

13:31 17 de jul. de 2014 Militares confirman que fue ukraine, pero se sigue sin saber de donde vino la orden

"Military confirm It was Ukraine, but still does not know where the order came from"

13:36 17 de jul. de 2014 Hace dias lo dije aquí, militares de kiev querían alzarse contra el actual presidente, esto puede ser una forma, a las órdenes de timoshenko

"Days ago I said here, kiev military wanted to rise against the current president, this may be a way, ordered by timoshenko [following timishenko orders]"

13:38 17 de jul. de 2014 Los cazas volaron cerca del 777, hasta 3 minutos antes de desaparecer de los radares, solo 3 minutos

"The fighters flew close to 777, up to 3 minutes before disappearing from the radar, just 3 minutes"

13:43 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo

"Airspace closed"

13:45 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo, por miedo a más derribos

"Airspace is closed, more downings feared"

15:17 17 de jul. de 2014 Control militar entrega ahora mismo de forma oficial que el avión fue derribado por misil

"military control now officially [say] the plane was shot down by missile"

15:23 17 de jul. de 2014 El informe oficial firmado por las autoridades militares de control de kiev ya lo tiene el gobierno„„ , derribado

"Government has the official report signed by the control military authorities in Kiev„„ [plane] shot down"

15:26 17 de jul. de 2014 En el informe se indica de donde abría salido el misil, y se especifica que no proviene de las autodefensa en las zonas rebeldes

"The report indicates where the missile had come out [from], and specified is not from the selfdefence in rebel areas"

15:34 17 de jul. de 2014Los radares militares si recogieron los datos del misil lanzado al avión, los radares civiles no

"Military radar collected data from missile fired to the plane, civilian radars didn't"

15:36 17 de jul. de 2014 Los altos mandos militares no ordenaron el lanzamiento del misil, „alguien se le fue la mano en nombre de ukraine

"military high command did not gave the order to fire the missile, someone screw it ine the name of ukraine"

15:38 17 de jul. de 2014 Para el que no lo sepa, digamos así, hay militares a las órdenes del ministro de defensa y militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior

>"For those who do not know, Let's say, there are military under the orders of the defense minister and military under the orders of Interior Minister"

15:38 17 de jul. de 2014 Los militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior conocían en cada momento lo que sucedió, .

"The military under the orders of Interior Minister knew what happened all the time ."

16:06 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares aquí (ATC) torre de control, confirman que el misil es del ejercito de ukraine,

"Military commanders here (ATC) control tower, confirm that the missile is from the ukranian army,"

16:07 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares que si lo sabían y otros mandos que no,

"military commanders that knew it and others didn´t ,"

16:08 17 de jul. de 2014 290 personas inocentes muertas, . Por una guerra inútil, donde el patriotismo se compra con dinero

"290 dead innocent people. What a useless war, where patriotism is bought with money"

16:09 17 de jul. de 2014 La forma de tomar la torre de control minutos después sabiendo todo los detalles, rápido nos hizo pensar que habían sido ellos

"The way the control tower was taken minutes after & knowing all the details, made us think that they [made it]"

16:10 17 de jul. de 2014 La cara de los militares que llegaron más tarde diciendo pero que habéis echo, no dejo dudas

"The face of the soldiers who came later saying [what you just did], no chance for doubts"

16:12 17 de jul. de 2014 Es tal la decadencia que los militares acompañados de extranjeros que llegaron primero nos llegaron a pedir que dijéramos su versión

"Such is the decline that military who came first accompanied by foreigners came to us asking us to tell their version"

16:13 17 de jul. de 2014 Nuestra respuesta, fue, estos radares no recogen el lanzamiento de misiles, los militares si, ya no quedaban dudas

"Our response was, these radars do not collect the launching of missiles, the military ones does, there were no doubts"

-

>twitter account deleted< >Screenshot from his account: http://i.imgur.com/SyHbpNA.jpg

by Mykolas Alutis

Mykolas Alutis is a social activist born in Barcelona and living for many years in Eastern Europe. He is co-founder and coordinating team member of IOUC. You can reach him at his private e-mail: argonautas2010@yahoo.com

[Paul Rigby]

Troublemaking Washington: Pushing Ukraine to the Brink

by MIKE WHITNEY

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/09/p...-the-brink

So all Putin has to do is sit tight and he wins, mainly because the EU needs Moscow's gas. If energy supplies are terminated or drastically reduced, prices will rise, the EU will slide back into recession, and Washington will take the blame. So Washington has a very small window to draw Putin into the fray, which is why we should expect another false flag incident on a much larger scale than the fire in Odessa. Washington is going to have to do something really big and make it look like it was Moscow's doing. Otherwise, their pivot plan is going to hit a brick wall.

The date of publication? 9 July 2014.

Great article...can't believe I've never heard of this guy before.

JULY 22, 2014

Putin Knows What Happened to MH17, But He's Not Saying--Yet ....

What Putin Knows

by MIKE WHITNEY

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/22/w...tin-knows/

"We have repeatedly called on all parties to immediately stop the bloodshed and sit down at the negotiating table. We strongly believe that if military action in the East of Ukraine had not been renewed on the 28th of June, this tragedy wouldn't have happened. However, no one has the right to use this tragedy to pursue their own political aims. Such events should unite and not divide people."

Russian President Vladimir Putin, Official statement on the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight 17

"Lets be clear, both Russia and the US know what happened. They'd have to. Their intelligence and orbital systems saw it all…. They'd have to know."

Omen 4, comments line Zero Hedge

Washington's plan to "pivot" to Asia by establishing a beachhead in Ukraine and sabotaging trade relations between Europe and Russia, entered a new phase last Thursday when Malaysia Airlines flight 17 was shot down by a surface-to-air missile launched from east Ukraine. Since then, the western media and prominent members of the US political establishment have used the incident to attack Russia mercilessly and to hold Russian President Vladimir Putin personally responsible for the deaths of the 295 passengers.

On Sunday, the Obama administration launched its most impressive propaganda blitz to date, scheduling appearances for US Secretary of State John Kerry on all five Sunday morning talk shows where he made unsubstantiated claims that MH17 was shot down by Russia-backed rebels in east Ukraine. According to Kerry, Russia has not only "supported, armed and trained" the separatists, but also provided them with the missile system (BUK) which was used to bring down the jetliner.

On CBS's "Face the Nation", Kerry said:

"We know for certain that the separatists have a proficiency that they've gained by training from Russians as to how to use these sophisticated SA-11 systems….. there's enormous amount of evidence, even more evidence than I just documented, that points to the involvement of Russia in providing these system, training the people on them." ("Kerry Says Russia Trained Separatists to Use Antiaircraft Missiles", New York Times)

Amazingly, Kerry's claims don't square with those of his boss, President Barack Obama who admitted on Friday that he didn't know who shot down MH17 or why. He said, "I think it's too early for us to be able to guess what intentions those who might have launched the surface-to-air missile might have had… In terms of identifying specifically what individual or group of individuals, you know, personnel ordered the strike, how it came aboutthose are things that I think are going to be subject to additional information that we're going to be gathering."

The fact that neither the contents of the black boxes or the cockpit recordings have yet been revealed didn't deter Kerry from making accusations and possibly tainting the investigation. Nor did Kerry mention the fact that the Ukrainian military who also had BUK missile systems in the areamay have mistakenly taken down the airliner. None of the five hosts challenged Kerry on any of his claims. He was able to provide the state's view of the incident without challenge or debate, just as one would expect in a dictatorship where information is carefully monitored.

And Kerry didn't stop there either. He went on to claim that Moscow had sent "a convoy several weeks ago of about 150 vehicles with armored personnel carriers, multiple rocket launchers, tanks, artillery, all of which crossed over from Russia into the eastern part of Ukraine and was turned over to the separatists."

Needless to say, none of the major media or respective Intel agencies (who closely follow activities on the border) have uttered a word about Kerry's phantom convoy. Without satellite imagery or some other proof, we must assume that Kerry's claim is about as reliable as his bogus 4-page "White Paper" that pinned the use of sarin gas on the Syrian government, a charge that was designed to escalate US involvement in the Syrian war andas journalist Robert Parry says, "spur President Obama into a quick decision to bomb Syrian government targets."

It's also worth noting that the journalist who co-authored Sunday's piece on Kerry in the New York Times was none other than Michael R. Gordon. In 2002 Gordon co-wrote a piece about aluminum tubes with Judith Miller which was intended to scare readers "with images of mushroom clouds" into supporting the war in Iraq. The story turned out to be complete baloney, but it helped to pave the way for the US invasion as it was intended to do. Gordon escaped blame for the article, while the discredited Miller was released.

Now the politicians and the media are at it again; trying to whip up war fever to get the public on board for another bloody intervention. Only this time, the target audience is not really the American people as much as it is Europeans. The real objective here, is to build support for additional economic sanctions as well as a deployment of NATO troops to Russia's western border. Washington want to sabotage further economic integration between the EU and Russia so that it can control the flow of vital resources to the EU, crash the Russian economy, and establish a tollbooth between the continents. It's all part of Washington's "pivot" strategy that is critical to maintaining global hegemony throughout the 21st century. This is from the NY Times:

"If investigators are able to confirm suspicions that the Malaysia Airlines jet was brought down by a surface-to-air missile fired by pro-Russian rebels who mistook it for a military aircraft, American officials expressed hope that the tragedy will underscore their case that Moscow has been violating Ukrainian sovereignty. While Mr. Obama imposed new sanctions on Russia just a day before, Europeans refused to adopt measures as stringent out of fear of jeopardizing their own economic ties….

The Obama administration already has additional sanctions prepared that could be put into effect quickly if Mr. Obama so chooses. "The question is does this finally move the Europeans across that threshold," said a senior administration official, who insisted on anonymity to speak more candidly. "I don't know, but how could it not?"

European officials were cautious in their initial reactions, seeking time and information before jumping to possible consequences, and were reluctant to assign blame. But most of the passengers were Europeans. The majority of them, 154 in all, were from the Netherlands, where the flight originated, which could increase pressure on European governments to respond….Some analysts said the disaster would invariably lead to a re-evaluation of Europe's approach to Russia.

"Ultimately this is going to ratchet up pressure within Europe to do what they should have done a long time ago," said John E. Herbst, a former American ambassador to Ukraine now at the Atlantic Council in Washington. "The strength of the opposition to firm steps remains strong, and so it's not going to go away. It's just that their position just took a serious hit and it should lead to a stronger set of European sanctions."…

While Mr. Obama did not articulate such a position, his former secretary of state, Hillary Rodham Clinton, gave voice publicly to what administration officials were saying privately…."Europeans have to be the ones to take the lead on this. It was a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur over European territory. There should be outrage in European capitals."

Can you see what's going on? Washington doesn't care about the facts. What matters to Obama and Co. is getting the Europeans on board ("ratcheting up pressure within Europe") so they can gin up the sanctions, shut off Russian gas, deprive Putin of a vital source of revenue, and set up shop (NATO bases) in Eurasia." Whether US Intel agencies were involved in the missile attack or not doesn't change the fact that Washington clearly benefits from the tragedy.

Keep in mind, that the reason Putin hasn't deployed Russian troops to stop the violence in east Ukraine is because the EU is his biggest trading partner and he doesn't want to do anything that will put the kibosh on their business dealings. Russia needs Europe just like Europe needs Russia. They're a perfect fit, which is why Washington has concocted this goofy plan to throw a wrench in the works. It's because Washington wants to be the Kingfish in Eurasia and control the continents' resources as well as the growth of regional economies. To achieve that objective, they need to convince EU leaders and people that Putin is a reckless aggressor who can't be trusted. That's why Kiev has launched one provocation after another since the legitimate Ukrainian government (Viktor Yanukovych) was ousted in late February and replaced with by a US-backed junta government. Most of the provocations have gone unreported in the western media, although they have regularly involved violations of international law and crimes against humanity, like the use of incendiary "phosphorous" ordnance on June, 12 in Slavyansk, or the bombing of a kindergarten in Slavyansk or the deliberate bombing of hospitals in east Ukraine, or the killing of journalists or the firing of mortar rounds across the border into Russia or the massacre at Odessa where 42 people were burned to death in a fire at the Trade Unions Building that was started by pro-junta hooligans and neo Nazis. None of these were reported in the western media where the coverage is tailored to advance the corporate-state agenda.

All of these incidents were concocted with one goal in mind; to provoke Putin into sending in the tanks thus providing the media with the opportunity to demonize him as the new Hitler. Putin has wisely avoided that trap deciding instead to work collaboratively with EU leaders Merkel and Hollande to try to persuade Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko to stop the bombardment in the east and agree to an immediate ceasefire.

Poroshenko, however, who takes his orders from Washington, has refused to end the violence. In fact, on Monday the "chocolate king" launched a massive attack on the city of Donetsk, home to nearly one million civilians. Here's a clip from a report from RT on Monday July 21:

"A heavy firefight is underway in a section of the city of Donetsk, with cannonade heard downtown. Self-defense reports of pro-Kiev armored vehicles and infantry trying to cut through defenses next to the central railway terminal.

Ukrainian troops equipped with tanks and armored vehicles are making an attempt to break into Donetsk, a city of approximately 950,000 people, an official of the rebels' self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, Sergey Kavtaradze, informed Reuters." ("Kiev forces attack city of Donetsk, civilian casualties reported", RT)

Poroshenko has no intention of complying with a ceasefire, because a ceasefire does not achieve the Obama administration's objective, which is to lure Putin into a bloody and protracted guerilla war. This is what makes the downing of MH17 so suspicious, because it could very well be a false flag operation intended to hurl more mud on Putin.

In any event, the fate of MH17 isn't going to be a secret for long. As journalist Pepe Escobar points out in a recent piece in the Asia Times, Russian intelligence has collected tons of data that will help connect the dots. Here's a clip from Escobar's latest titled "It was Putin's missile?":

"Russian intelligence (has) been surveilling/tracking everything that happens in Ukraine 24/7. In the next 72 hours, after poring over a lot of tracking data, using telemetry, radar and satellite tracking, they will know which type of missile was launched, from where, and even produce communications from the battery that launched it. And they will have access to forensic evidence." ("It was Putin's missile?" Pepe Escobar, Asia Times)

So, one way or another, we're going to know what happened. The US and Russia have the data they need to figure out where the missile was launched and who launched it. They probably even have recordings of communications between Air Traffic Tower and the airliner. They know it all, but they'll probably be cautious about what they reveal and when they reveal it.

My guess, is that Putin will drag his feet to see whether the investigation is thorough, transparent and even-handed or an elaborate hoax used to discredit him in the eyes of his trading partners.

Clearly, the Obama team see this as an opportunity to do a number on Putin, so they could be tempted to use fake evidence like the grainy photos that popped up in the New York Times some months ago that were supposed to prove that Russian military experts were secretly directing the rebellion in east Ukraine. (The photos were fake.) If they try a stunt like that this time around, Putin will be ready for them. And, of course, if he has solid proof that the plane was blown up by Poroshenko's henchmen, then there could be hell to pay. In fact, it might just bring Obama's proxy war to a screeching halt.

One can only hope.

MIKE WHITNEY lives in Washington state. He is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press). Hopeless is also available in a Kindle edition. He can be reached at fergiewhitney@msn.com.

[Lauren Johnson]

But it was a mistake. Interesting. The original position was based on evidence -- such as it was -- now the new position is nothing but an assertion.

ZeroHedge: Which leaves us with one question - What happened between The White House and Putin (and perhaps Merkel) that ended with this lowering the tone of the debate?