"There are three sorts of conspiracy: by the people who complain, by the people who write, by the people who take action. There is nothing to fear from the first group, the two others are more dangerous; but the police have to be part of all three,"
'A large number of high-energy objects penetrated aircraft from outside' Makes it sound like it wasn't one large projectile like the BUK missile but several smaller ones like machine gun fire.
MOSCOW, September 8 (RIA Novosti) Judging by the poor amount of data released on the investigation of the MH17 crash in Ukraine, it is possible that the information is being withheld, Former CIA representative David Speedie told RIA Novosti on Monday.
"There has been complete silence for the past three weeks… The silence, it means people are hiding things. Where is the conversation between the control tower and what did the Ukrainians do with those things? Why is there a secret agreement between Malaysia, Ukraine and Holland not to say anything to anybody? Judging by the poor evidence that has been out there, people are hiding things," Director at the US Global Engagement Program, Carnegie Council for Ethics, David Speedie said.
"Where are those black boxes? The black boxes have been in London for three or four weeks now. We should have some results. Why were they given to the British? There are all kinds of unexplained reasons here," Speedie said.
The expert also said that if "it were the Ukrainian forces that did this, and it was done without Poroshenko or even Yatsenyuk knowing about it" and Russia has information about it, then that may be "very embarrassing" since it may prove that the Ukrainian leader is "not in control."
Flight MH17, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed on July 17 in the Donetsk region, killing all 298 people on board. The reason for the crash is a matter of debate. Kiev accuses independence supporters in eastern Ukraine of shooting it down but cannot provide any evidence. The local militia leaders insist that they do not have weapons capable of shooting down a plane flying at 32,000 feet.
A preliminary report on the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash in eastern Ukraine is expected to be issued on September 9.
Sherlock releases his report. He declines to use the word "bullets" or even "canon shells" as that is far too controversial. Instead he limits himself to 13 innocuous words that mean the same thing, but presented in a way that is open to interpretation by all parties.
The plane was destroyed by " a large number of high energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside".
As is to be expected, the Guardian doesn't attempt to bring clarity to the story, or to effect a change in the west's propaganda, or mention eye-witness reports that a Ukrainian fighter, probably a SU25, was flying - been buzzing - in the same vicinity as the airliner, nor that eye-witnesses stated that the fighter shot down the airliner, which whether true or not does have a direct and immediate bearing of "high energy objects penetrating the aircraft". Best to leave common sense and deductive reasoning at the well alone - as otherwise they face the danger of becoming informative.
Quote:MH17 crash caused by 'objects penetrating aircraft from outside'
Preliminary report into 17 July crash that killed 298 people says it was not caused by a technical fault or crew's actions
Floral tributes for victims of Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash at Schiphol airport, from where the flight departed. Photograph: Valerie Kuypers/AFP/Getty Images
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 broke up in mid-air as a result of structural damage caused by "a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside", according to the Dutch investigators' preliminary report.
The investigators' report into the downing of the plane over easternUkraine does not apportion blame or say a missile was fired. But the Dutch Safety Board says: "There are no indications that the MH17 crash was caused by a technical fault or by actions of the crew."
The Boeing 777 was blown up in mid-air on 17 July over rebel-held territory in eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 passengers and crew on board.
The black boxes were retrieved intact, with the flight recorders showing a completely normal flight before impact.
Radio communications with Ukrainian air traffic control confirm that no emergency call was made by the cockpit crew.
The pattern of wreckage on the ground suggests that the aircraft split into pieces during flight.
The report shows how easily a different airliner could have met the fate of Malaysia Airlines' doomed plane instead, had the crew of MH17 been able to comply with a controller's request to fly higher in the minutes before it was shot down.
Air traffic controllers were attempting to clear traffic as three other commercial flights, unidentified in the report, were in the close vicinity two other Boeing 777s and one Airbus A330.
At 12.53pm, Ukrainian air traffic controllers at Dnipropetrov asked MH17 to climb 2,000 feet to flight level 350 over eastern Ukraine, in accordance with the original flight plan, to clear a "potential separation conflict" with another Boeing 777.
The crew said they were unable to comply, possibly due to weather. Instead, at least one other plane climbed higher.
Just after 1pm the crew, running into bad weather, requested to climb to 34,000 feet - although air traffic control said the plane should keep at the same altitude. At 1.20pm, MH17 exploded in mid-air.
The other plane was not identified by investigators but it is known that a large Singapore Airlines flight, many of which are 777s, was in the vicinity.
Kiev and the west have accused pro-Russia separatists of shooting down the plane with a surface-to-air missile supplied by Moscow. Russia, which denies mounting western claims of direct involvement in the five-month conflict in Ukraine, has blamed government forces for the attack.
Russia, Ukraine, the US, the UK, Malaysia and Australia were all given the politically sensitive report for review, and investigators say they have since amended it before publication.
The report is being issued just days after a ceasefire backed by Kiev and Moscow came into force on Friday to try to end a war that has killed more than 2,700 people and led to at least half a million fleeing their homes.
Tjibbe Joustra, chairman of the Dutch Safety Board, said: "The MH17 crash has shocked the world and raised many questions. The Dutch Safety Board wishes to determine the cause of the crash, for the sake of the loved ones of the victims and for society at large."
"The initial results of the investigation point towards an external cause of the MH17 crash. More research will be necessary to determine the cause with greater precision. The safety board believes that additional evidence will become available for investigation in the period ahead."
The disaster killed 298 people on board, when the plane travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpar was destroyed on 17 July. Dutch passengers formed the majority of the victims aboard the Boeing 777 plane, with 193 of the 283 passengers and 15 crew who died.
Last week the Malaysian prime minister, Najib Razak, said he wanted to dispatch more investigators to eastern Ukraine before winter to gather more evidence. The search has been suspended for a month because of the continuing conflict in the area.
The investigators said they are aiming to publish the final report by July 2015.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
And they still haven't released the control tower recordings which would say many things such as why they took that fight path that day when for the previous 14 days they had taken one over the Azov Sea many miles away from the fighting.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
David Guyatt Wrote:Sherlock releases his report. He declines to use the word "bullets" or even "canon shells" as that is far too controversial. Instead he limits himself to 13 innocuous words that mean the same thing, but presented in a way that is open to interpretation by all parties.
The plane was destroyed by " a large number of high energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside".
Small missile damage from ON TOP of wing and coming from BEHIND.
Multiple small missile entry damage to cockpit ROOF with entry from ABOVE.
How did that terrestrial BUK launcher get all the way up in the sky above and behind MH17 and cause this damage when the 'rebels' don't have an air-force even to get it up there? ::bigguns:: ::bluebaron:: And since when does a BUK missile launcher fire any missile not less than 580 kg? These are clearly made by smaller projectiles.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Maybe MH17 was flying upside down? That might explain things....::flyingpig::There is apparently no damage from below. The entry points are all from above.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
The SU25 was said by eye witnesses to attack from above, as I recall. The SU 25 has a twin 30mm cannon.
The Ukraine Today blog has some interesting insights about this. But the knife in the heart comes from a Canadian OSCE investigator who was one of the first on the site. His interview confirms that it was machine gun fire that brought the aircraft down. The entire missile explanation is a deflection. See at 6:10 minutes for the machine gun comments.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
(Tony Cartalucci - NEO) - The absence of America's so-called "intelligence" regarding the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17 over Ukraine in a 34 page Dutch Safety Board preliminary report raises serious questions about the credibility and legitimacy of both America's political agenda, and all agencies, organizations, and political parties currently behind it.
The report titled, "Preliminary Report: Crash involving Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 flight MH17" (.pdf), cites a wide variety of evidence in its attempt to determine the cause of flight MH17's crash and to prevent similar accidents or incidents from occurring again in the future. Among this evidence includes the cockpit voice recorder (CVR), the flight data recorder (FDR), analysis of recorded air traffic control (ATC) surveillance data and radio communication, analysis of the meteorological circumstances, forensic examination of the wreckage (if recovered and possible foreign objects if found), results of the pathological investigation, and analysis of the in-flight break up sequence.
Satellite images are referenced in regards to analyzing the crash site after the disaster, however, no where in the report is mentioned any evidence whatsoever of satellite images of missile launchers, intelligence from the United States regarding missile launches, or any information or evidence at all in any regard suggesting a missile had destroyed MH17. In fact, the report concludes by stating:
This report is preliminary. The information must necessarily be regarded as tentative and subject to alternation or correction if additional evidence becomes available. Further work will at least include the following areas of interest to substantiate the factual information regarding:
detailed analyses of data, including CVR, FDR and other sources, recorded onboard the aircraft;
detailed analyses of recorded ATC surveillance data and radio communication;
detailed analyses of the meteorological circumstances;
forensic examination of wreckage if recovered and possible foreign objects, if found;
results of the pathological investigation;
analyses of the in-flight break up sequence;
assessment of the operator's and State of Occurrence's management of flight safety over a region of conflict or high security risk;
any other areas that are identified during the investigation.
With the black boxes in hand and a wealth of data from multiple sources both onboard the aircraft and from the ground in both Ukraine and Russia, the Dutch Safety Board was still hesitant to draw any conclusions and insisted that none be jumped to.
The report specifically mentions information collected from Russia, including air traffic control and radar data - both of which were publicly shared by Russia in the aftermath of the disaster. The report also cites data collected from Ukraine air traffic controllers. The United States however, apart from providing technical information about the aircraft itself considering it was manufactured in the US, provided absolutely no data in any regard according to the report.
Missing US Intel Points to Fabrications
Had the US actually possessed any credible information to substantiate its claims that MH17 was shot down by a missile, such evidence surely would have been submitted to and included in the Dutch Safety Board's preliminary reporting. That it is predictably missing confirms what commentators, analysts, and politicians around the world had long since suspected - the West's premature conclusions regarding MH17's demise were driven by a political agenda, not a factually based search for the truth. The evidence that MH17 was shot down by a missile as the West insisted is missing because it never existed in the first place.
That the Dutch Safety Board possesses such a vast amount of information but is still unable to draw anything but the most tentative conclusions, exposes the alleged certainty of Western pundits and politicians in the hours and days after MH17's loss as an utterly irresponsible, politically motivated, exploitation of tragedy at best, and at worst, exposing the West - NATO in particular - as possible suspects in a crime they clearly stood the most to benefit from.
Fabrications Establish Motive
In the wake of the MH17 tragedy, the West would rush through a series of sanctions against Russia as well as justify further military aid for the regime in Kiev, Ukraine and the literal Neo-Nazi militant battalions serving its pro-Western agenda amid a brutal civil war raging in the country's eastern most provinces. With sanctions in hand, and the war raging on in earnest, the MH17 disaster dropped entirely out of Western narratives as if it never occurred. Surely if the West had solid evidence implicating eastern Ukrainian rebels and/or Russia, the world would never have heard the end of the MH17 disaster until the truth was fully aired before the public.
When Dutch investigators published their preliminary report, the West merely reiterated its original claims, simply imposing their contradictory nature upon the report - most likely believing the public would never actually read its 34 pages.
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 broke apart over Ukraine due to impact from a large number of fragments, the Dutch Safety Board said on Tuesday, in a report that Malaysia's prime minister and several experts said suggested it was shot down from the ground.
The title of Reuters' propaganda piece directly contradicts its first paragraph which reveals "experts," not the actual Dutch Safety Board report, claimed it was "shot down from the ground," while the report itself says nothing of the sort. The experts cited by Reuters in fact had no association whatsoever with the preliminary report and instead are the same mainstay of cherry picked commentators the West constantly defers to while building up and perpetuating utterly fabricated narratives to advance its agenda globally.
The lesson to be learned from the MH17 disaster is that real investigations and their subsequent conclusions take time - weeks or even months. Anyone drawing immediate conclusions within hours or days after an event like the MH17 disaster are exploiting tragedy at best, and at worst implicate themselves as suspects having created it in the first place to serve as impetus for further chaos, conflict, and confusion.
Those incapable of resisting the need to jump to conclusions are those who are least suitable to lead. The United States, United Kingdom, and the European Union have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are at best tasteless, irresponsible, politically motivated exploiters of human tragedy, and at worst, the prime suspects of a heinous act of mass murder aimed at perpetuating their agenda of war and carnage in Ukraine and beyond.
There's no evidence of a missile shoot down in the Dutch report because there wasn't one. It's hard not to conclude -- based on the ex post facto hate campaign against Russian and US insisticence that the Europeans impose sanctions against Putin (economically harming themselves in the process) -- that the Ukrainians did their dirty work at the behest of the US. It was all a false flag operation, and since the required results happened (European sanctions and a new cold war against Russia) the US can now allow the whole affair to go quiet and be pushed to a back shelf where it will be allowed to gather dust. Job done.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
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