"The Meaning of Timothy McVeigh" By Gore Vidal Vanity Fair September 2001

[Myra Bronstein]

http://www.geocities.com/gorevidal3000/tim.htm

I'm sure this is bad form to just give a link and urge people to read it, but I can't even begin to do justice to the scope and depth of this article. It is about McVeigh, a subject/person I'm mystified by. But it goes so much further.

As an aside, is anyone in the world as brilliant as Gore Vidal?

[Magda Hassan]

Gore Vidal is definitely one of the better things to come out of the US! I have some clips of him in the play lists on our You Tube channel. Check in the Vlog section for his talk with William Buckley! In others he is talking about Kennedy (he was Jackie's cousin BTW), the National Security State, and Vietnam. One with Pierre Salinger. All classics.

[Charles Drago]

Myra, et al,

If you do not already own The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror, by David Hoffman, Foreword by Representative Charles Key, you should leave no stone unturned to find and purchase this definitive literary investigation of the deep political events in OKC.

There are used copies available on Amazon with prices between $12 and $176.

This volume, published by Feral House in 1998, is available on-line (including the original Chapter Ten which does not appear in the print edition) at

http://www.constitution.org/ocbpt/ocbpt.htm

You can read about the consequences of truth-telling at

http://www.beachnet.com/~hoffman/Killing...enger.html

[David Guyatt]

I love the media. Don’t you.

Charlie provided a link about the fallout surrounding David Hoffman in which Hoffman wrote that he called Oklahoma County District Attorney Bob Macy a "two-faced liar" on local television.

In the Washington Times story that follows Hoffman’s appalling chronology of misrepresentation and abuse of the legal process, the WT journalist states that Hoffman called Macy a “two-faced coward”.

When a newspaper writing an article suporting Mr. Hoffman’s contentions cannot accurately report is exact words but rather modify them so as not to fall foul of the law, what chance do we have.

Charlie, I have not read Hoffman’s book for a decade or more, although I was in touch with him just prior to his publishing of it and he sent me a copy. So a question please. Can you remind me what David Hoffman said about Strassmeir (failing memory is a real bugger, eh).

It was a London based good friend of David Hoffman - a former well known guitarist in a well rock known band - who contacted me with the story that Strassmeir was hiding in the house of a senior policeman in Ireland (possibly Northern rather than Southern Ireland - I can’t recall now). I organized a meeting for Mr. Guitarist (a lovely guy btw) to meet a TV documentary filmmaker in the hope that a programme commission could be organized so that Roger and I could travel to Ireland to doorstep the policeman and track down Strassmeir. Sadly, we were unable to make a strong enough case to generate a commission (not for want of trying but TV land just doesn’t do investigative reporting of any real substance anymore).

It later came out (or was alleged anyway) that Strassmeir was the son of a very well placed German politician and that he, Andreas Strassmeir was a German intelligence agent/asset. It was even stated in one post I have seen that Daddy Strassmeir used to be a familiar of the OSS station in Berlin and Frankfurt immediately following the end of WWII. I don’t know how accurate this report is, but I’m going to link it here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listser...66337.html

I knew and liked Brian Quig - a nice, genuine guy - who posted the above message, and have no reason to doubt his truthfulness. In 2003, he died in a car accident that some of his friends believed was a hit. I have no idea about the accuracy of this assertion. Personally, I doubt this was the case. Car accidents do happen. But who really knows.

[Peter Lemkin]

Myra, et al,

If you do not already own The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror, by David Hoffman, Foreword by Representative Charles Key, you should leave no stone unturned to find and purchase this definitive literary investigation of the deep political events in OKC.

There are used copies available on Amazon with prices between $12 and $176.

This volume, published by Feral House in 1998, is available on-line (including the original Chapter Ten which does not appear in the print edition) at

http://www.constitution.org/ocbpt/ocbpt.htm

You can read about the consequences of truth-telling at

http://www.beachnet.com/~hoffman/Killing...enger.html

Thanks for that....now I know what I'll be reading this weekend. The Oklahoma Bombing case was amazingly swept under the carpet [not the dramatic magic flourishes at mis-direction, of course], as was the First WTC bombing. Some patsies are 'best' dead - as dead men don't talk. Others, who now nothing or have been esentially brainwashed or neutralized can just rot in jail - either way the real culprits go free. So it goes, so it goes...... Not only is the Emperor Naked - he's been doing obscene acts while prominading at official ceremonies. Bread and Circus - minus the bread, now. Ancient Rome at is end can't hold a candle to the contemporary crowd of imperatori

[Charles Drago]

In the days to come I'll post on one of my favorite areas of investigation: the uses and functions of doppelgangers -- human and otherwise -- in intel ops.

I haven't checked the on-line version of Hoffman's book to see if the original photo section is included. In the event that it's not, you should know that the author has located a photo of an ATF agent who is a dead ringer for McVeigh.

[Jack White]

I have vague misgivings about the trial and "execution" of McVeigh.

There was something about it that was not quite "normal"...like it was
all a scripted performance by actors. What if the man on trial was a
lookalike and was not executed at all?

Jack

[Myra Bronstein]

Gore Vidal is definitely one of the better things to come out of the US! I have some clips of him in the play lists on our You Tube channel. Check in the Vlog section for his talk with William Buckley! In others he is talking about Kennedy (he was Jackie's cousin BTW), the National Security State, and Vietnam. One with Pierre Salinger. All classics.

Yes, well William Buckley, hard core CIA hack, deserved the moniker "crypto-fascist" given to him by Gore.

Right, Gore is Jackie's cousin and consequently the subject of the Kennedys is the only one that I take with a grain of salt with Gore, because he hates Bobby so much for an altercation they had. I think it keeps him from being as open minded as he normally is on the subject of President Kennedy--his worth and his legacy.

Still, he knows the scoop. When he mentions JFK's murder in passing it's clear that he knows the scoop:

"But let’s return to the F.B.I. conspiracy to cover up its crimes at Waco. Senator Danforth is an honorable man, but then, so was Chief Justice Earl Warren, and the findings of his eponymous commission on the events at Dallas did not, it is said, ever entirely convince even him."

And here's my favorite description of how the mainstream media treats 'our kind':

"In March 1993, McVeigh drove from Arizona to Waco, Texas, in order to observe firsthand the federal siege. Along with other protesters, he was duly photographed by the F.B.I. During the siege the cultists were entertained with 24-hour ear-shattering tapes (Nancy Sinatra: "These boots are made for walkin’/And that’s just what they’ll do/One of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you") as well as the recorded shrieks of dying rabbits, reminiscent of the first George Bush’s undeclared war on Panama, which after several similar concerts outside the Vatican Embassy yielded up the master drug criminal (and former C.I.A. agent) Noriega, who had taken refuge there. Like the TV networks, once our government has a hit it will be repeated over and over again. Oswald? Conspiracy? Studio laughter.

TV-watcher have no doubt noted so often that they are no longer aware of how often the interchangeable TV hosts handle anyone who tries to explain why something happened. "Are you suggesting that there was a conspiracy?" A twinkle starts in a pair of bright contact lenses. No matter what the answer, there is a wriggling of the body, followed by a tiny snort and a significant glance into the camera to show that the guest has just been delivered to the studio by flying saucer. This is one way for the public never to understand what actual conspirators – whether in the F.B.I. or on the Supreme Court or toiling for Big Tobacco – are up to. It is also a sure way of keeping information from the public. The function, alas, of Corporate Media."

http://www.geocities.com/gorevidal3000/tim.htm

Oswald? Conspiracy? Studio laughter.

[Myra Bronstein]

Myra, et al,

If you do not already own The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror, by David Hoffman, Foreword by Representative Charles Key, you should leave no stone unturned to find and purchase this definitive literary investigation of the deep political events in OKC.

There are used copies available on Amazon with prices between $12 and $176.

This volume, published by Feral House in 1998, is available on-line (including the original Chapter Ten which does not appear in the print edition) at

http://www.constitution.org/ocbpt/ocbpt.htm

Thank you for those links Charles!
I'm amazed at the books that are online.

You can read about the consequences of truth-telling at

http://www.beachnet.com/~hoffman/KillingtheMessenger.html

Woah...

"Unfortunately this has become a political attack on me, because in fighting for the truth, I have become a thorn in their side. I am the only reporter to file a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit against the FBI, for the surveillance tapes that would have captured all the suspects at the scene of the crime. And I am the only reporter who has filed an Open Records Act lawsuit against the Oklahoma County Sheriff's Department, for the Bomb Squad's crime scene logs, which would show that military grade explosives on the building's columns really brought that building down."

Oh, just like 911.

"1996 Anti-Terrorism Act. Remember that Act? That was the one passed in response to Oklanhoma City and gave "sweeping new powers" to federal authorities, so that such a horrible act of terrorism, would never, ever, never, never happen ever again!"
http://www.amazon.com/Terrorism-Constitu...1565849396

Oh, just like 911.

If only there was a clear pattern here....

I guess this thread should have gone in the 911 folder.

[Myra Bronstein]

Thanks for that....now I know what I'll be reading this weekend. The Oklahoma Bombing case was amazingly swept under the carpet [not the dramatic magic flourishes at mis-direction, of course], as was the First WTC bombing. Some patsies are 'best' dead - as dead men don't talk. Others, who now nothing or have been esentially brainwashed or neutralized can just rot in jail - either way the real culprits go free. So it goes, so it goes...... Not only is the Emperor Naked - he's been doing obscene acts while prominading at official ceremonies. Bread and Circus - minus the bread, now. Ancient Rome at is end can't hold a candle to the contemporary crowd of imperatori

It appears that McVeigh was a guilty patsy who took the fall for other guilty parties for reasons that Vidal speculates about. Unlike Oswald who was likely an innocent patsy.

McVeigh seems like misguided man with noble intentions who was trying to get us to understand the implications of Waco.