Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE?

[Peter Lemkin]

It would be interesting if FBI was using a red Ford as a patsy car to be linked with the Ford Falcon claims in Chicago. The underlying message would be you will have as much luck pursuing this car as you did Vallee's.

Douglass says the Mathers were so close to the Tippits that Mrs Tippit called Mrs Mather when her husband was killed and actually went over to the Mathers to be consoled. This obvious, clustered CIA-Dallas Police relationship didn't seem to spark any interest in the investigating authorities.

I think I've seen enough and the public needs to pursue a public legal action against the FBI for obstruction of justice and conspiracy to alter or conceal evidence.

While you are perfectly correct for the FBI to be held to account for obstruction of and destruction of justice [and more], you are naive in the extreme if you think you'll ever live to see it...or Ms. Hoover's name removed from the HQ. Short of a Revolution [desperately needed in the USA more than Tunisia or Egypt et al.] it will be Corporate Capitalism and the Secret Government agenda, as usual......sadly.

[Albert Doyle]

Peter:

You sound like the people who thought Kennedy's peace initiatives were unrealistic.


I was laying in bed last night and realized KGB must have taken their Oswald's fingerprints. This is important because KGB would have had thunderously exposing evidence of the double Oswald. Maybe these fingerprints were traded by some opportunistic KGB agent for millions of dollars after the fall of the Berlin wall?

[Steve Duffy]

On the question of Robert Webster's statements that Marina spoke quite acceptable English in their meetings..is their other evidence that this was the case? I have no problems regarding Webster's claims..just wondering at what point, and were, Marina was trained in its use. What institutions could have trained her in English?

[Albert Doyle]

Legal Proof:


There's no way the Dallas police officers who arrested "Oswald" in the balcony would have made the mistake of mistaking the ground floor where Lee Oswald was arrested with the balcony.

Further proof of this could be established by determining which officers arrested Oswald on the ground floor, 3rd row from the back, as recorded in the Warren Report. If we establish which officers arrested Lee on the ground floor and where they were in relation to those other officers who recorded arresting Harvey in the balcony we can show they were a separate distinct group of officers making a separate and distinct arrest. Those who arrested Lee could be shown as having been out the front door and away by the time the other group of officers arrested Harvey.

I'm pretty sure this is irrefutable legal proof.

At this point we shouldn't be petitioning the Dallas District Attorney, we should be suing him.


.

[Magda Hassan]

On the question of Robert Webster's statements that Marina spoke quite acceptable English in their meetings..is their other evidence that this was the case? I have no problems regarding Webster's claims..just wondering at what point, and were, Marina was trained in its use. What institutions could have trained her in English?

This is most interesting Steve. I presume this is the Robert Webster the also 'defected' to the USSR and whose name was found in her address book? When did he make his statement and what period of time is he referring to with regards to Marina? Because she apparently spoke no English in the USSR and spoke very rough English at the time of LHO's arrest. Though to be fair even native speakers can sound badly spoken in front of cameras under stress.

As for language institutions in the USSR there are many she could have studied at. Language teaching was very extensive there. The university where she studied her pharmacology would be worth checking out to see if they also offered language studies but there would be others too and intensive language courses offered in some places. I'll ask around some of my Russian born friends and see if they can remember the names of any, could take a little while before I see them though.

[Steve Duffy]

Magda, Robert made those statement's to Armstrong himself. He claimed to have met Marina on a few occasions...and lived in an apartment block were she also visited often....Remember Katya Ford's comments to the WC that Marina told her she had met Lee at a dance, which was not what happened...seemed she was mistaken Lee with a previous encounter with Robert...

[Magda Hassan]

Thanks Steve. Most interesting. I haven't yet read Harvey and Lee but it certainly is on my Must Read list. I've long been interested in the lives of these 'defectors' once they returned to the US as well. Yes, I do remember Katya's remarks about Marina and the dance. Marina is as interesting as LHO in her own way. :orly:

[Bernice Moore]

this article does not delve into the english aspect of marina, but it contains some interesting details, as well as many interesting questions....b

http://www.paginedidifesa.it/2003/friedman_031126.html

[Bernice Moore]

this is from 1964, but apparently marina at the time had no qualms with her protective services...i believe the intials are peter folkes, not positive, on the alts..

An article in the Jan 11, 1964, NY Times reported on Marina Oswald's
refusal to allow the Dallas Civil Liberties Union to interview her.
The article is entitled 'Oswald's Widow Bars Interview: Note to Civil
Liberties Union Says F.B.I. Occupies Time'.
In the article, reporter Jack Langguth reports that Marina recently
wrote a letter to the Dallas Civil Liberties Union to inform them "she
is satisfied with her seclusion and with the protection of the Secret
Service."
Langguth also reports that "officials of the civil liberties group
had requested an interview with her to assure themselves that Oswald's
widow was not being held by the Government against her will. The
organization received instead a letter in Russian. A Russian-born
friend of Mrs. Oswald's translated it into English, and the text was
read last night to the organization's executive board. Greg L. Olds,
president of the group, said that its officers would continue to seek
an interview with Mrs. Oswald."
Mr. Olds refused to make her letter public until the Dallas CLU
"decided on a further course of action. 'We will not know all the
circumstances unless we can talk with her first hand,' he said.
Langguth did include the text of the letter in his article despite
Olds refusal to make the note public,. The reporter said he obtained
the text from "someone who had seen the message."

Here is the text of the letter:

<quote on>

Let me thank you for the attention you are giving me. I don't think
you have anything to worry about. What you read in the
newspapers--everything is correct. I don't object to the Secret
Service guarding me. I am only grateful for their time.
I am free to go where I want and see whom I please. I myself don't
want to see anybody to remind me of what has happened. I hope you
understand. When I feel I'm ready, I would see with pleasure Mrs. Ruth
Paine, who is a very nice person. I hope you also understand that I
lived in a strange house. I wouldn't want to inconvenience anyone as
kind as Mrs. Paine with the visitors I would be sure to receive.
I also want to thank you again for being so kind as to worry about
me. I repeat I am in as good a position as one can expect me to be
after what has happened.

<quote off>

Anyone know the name of the "Russian-born friend of Mrs. Oswald's
translated it into English"?

I don't think Marina ever was "ready" to see Ruth Paine again. At
least as far as I know.
PF

[Bernice Moore]

another that seems in places to only add to her questionable replys to interview questions...i wonder if the hot and cold scenarios depended on who was present..and or who was asking...


June 5, 1998
Oswald Widow: Husband Acted Alone
Filed at 4:25 p.m. EDT
By The Associated Press
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Five years after John F. Kennedy's
assassination, Lee Harvey Oswald's widow faced a district attorney's
insistence that Oswald ``might have been set up.'' But she clung to a
belief that her husband was the president's killer and acted alone.
Documents made public Friday show the intensity of New Orleans
District Attorney Jim Garrison's pursuit of his conspiracy theory. He
even told Marina Oswald Porter that when her husband, during 12
hours of questioning, consistently asserted his innocence, ``he was
telling the truth.''
But Mrs. Porter wouldn't buy in to the conspiracy theory.
Near the end of a long day of interrogation before the grand jury, she
was asked point-blank, ``Marina, do you believe your husband killed
the president?''
``As much facts as I know, I do,'' the Russian-born woman said in
broken English.
Later, an unidentified member of the grand jury broke in to ask, ``Do
you think he was capable of planning, plotting this whole thing by
himself?''
``I think so,'' she replied. ``I don't think he would be involved in any
conspiracy with anybody, in my opinion.''
The secret grand jury records, made public Friday, offer little to
support Garrison's belief that people in his own city were part of a
conspiracy to kill Kennedy.
The Garrison investigation, from 1967 through 1969, resulted in the
indictment, 34-day trial and hasty acquittal of New Orleans
businessman Clay Shaw.
Sal Panzeca, Shaw's defense lawyer, told New Orleans television
station WDSU Thursday night that the Shaw investigation amounted to
``not much more than a witch hunt.''
Harry Connick, the current New Orleans district attorney, sought to
keep the record of Garrison's proceedings secret, but a court ruled that
Connick had to surrender the records to the Assassination Records
Review Board and the Supreme Court refused last month to intervene.
Congress created the board after the Garrison investigation was
portrayed by the Oliver Stone movie ``JFK.'' The board's purpose is to
amass all records concerning Kennedy's killing and subsequent
investigations.
``Copies of these transcripts have been hidden for years and were
available to only a select few people,'' said board chairman John R.
Tunheim. ``Now all of the American people will be free to examine a
more complete record of the Garrison prosecution of Clay Shaw.''
Mrs. Porter -- she remarried after Oswald was killed in the Dallas jail
three days after the shooting of Kennedy in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963 --
was one of 40 witnesses before the grand jury.
Pursuing his own conspiracy theory, Garrison told Mrs. Porter that no
fingerprints had been found on Oswald's guns and that a nitrate test
``exonerated'' Oswald.
And an assistant district attorney reminded her that friends of Oswald
doubted he could kill the president. To which she replied: ``They don't
know much about Lee. He could have violent temper, he could be
mean. He kept everything kind of secret.''
Over the years, Mrs. Oswald changed her mind about Oswald's guilt.
Embraced by other conspiracy theorists, she came to accept their
theories.
She even joined in requesting the exhumation of Oswald's body under
the belief that the person in the grave was actually a Soviet KGB agent
impersonating the real Oswald. The exhumation confirmed that the
body was in fact Oswald's.
A few years ago, nonetheless, she told author Gerald Posner, ``I think
Lee was completely innocent.''

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