Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE?

[Jim Hargrove]

[Albert Doyle]

I posted that letter in response to a post of his while he was dealing with Parker at Ed Forum... Even Gary Mack emailed me about it...

Bothers them no end when the WCR is found to be wrong...

Lifton's continuing to claim he has had the last word on it and that McBride's protest was just his being talked in to sticking to his original story by Armstrong.

Lifton claims Doug Horne settled the issue during ARRB when he got Oswald's 1956 tax record and it showed employment at Pfisterer.

I think McBride's letter shows it isn't that simple. Maybe you should tack it on to the end of that thread to see how Lifton responds.

[Albert Doyle]

If the Oswald Project involved the development of genetic twins Marina's children might not have different DNA than Robert Oswald. Harvey & Lee may have had similar DNA.

[Jim DiEugenio]

David Lifton claims a lot of things:

1. Assassins were hiding in the trees in Dealey Plaza

2. Jim Garrison was a complete and utter fraud

3. Kerry Thornley had absolutely nothing to do with Oswald or the assassination

4. FBI asset, and habitual liar, James Phelan was a good journalist (He actually spoke at Phelan's funeral).

5. Edward Epstein is pretty cool also (Lifton helped him on his book Counterplot)

6. All the shots in Dealey Plaza came from the front (incredible)

7. The WC really wasn't that bad, it was just fooled by the autopsy (No one can believe this who has read Specter's cross examination of the doctors)

8. Jim Humes admitted to him that there was something to his ideas about alteration (This was discredited when Lifton played his tape of Humes in Chicago)

9. JFK's body was hijacked and went to some other location where something called trajectory reversal took place (That is holes were punched in his corpse etc.)

10. The photos of the back of the head are real

I understand his new book, if its ever published (let us hope its not) will somehow blame the cover up on RFK

All of the above is, in my view, complete and utter BS

There are some good things in Horne's book, but it is hard to escape the implication that he served as an appendage of Lifton on the ARRB.

[Albert Doyle]

^ I tend to agree with his important twin arrival time at Bethesda discovery.


Weird world of assassination research. I find him less than forthcoming in his response to Palmer McBride whom Lifton clearly mischaracterized.

10. The photos of the back of the head are real

A credibility destroyer by itself.

2. Jim Garrison was a complete and utter fraud

An even worse credibility destroyer.


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[Jim DiEugenio]

Every one of those is bad.

And the alleged Boyjakalian document or whatever it is with the second arrival time has been shown to be dubious by Harry Livingstone.

[Albert Doyle]

I thought CTKA was critical of Livingstone?

[Jim Hargrove]

David Lifton claims a lot of things:

1. Assassins were hiding in the trees in Dealey Plaza

2. Jim Garrison was a complete and utter fraud

3. Kerry Thornley had absolutely nothing to do with Oswald or the assassination

4. FBI asset, and habitual liar, James Phelan was a good journalist (He actually spoke at Phelan's funeral).

5. Edward Epstein is pretty cool also (Lifton helped him on his book Counterplot)

6. All the shots in Dealey Plaza came from the front (incredible)

7. The WC really wasn't that bad, it was just fooled by the autopsy (No one can believe this who has read Specter's cross examination of the doctors)

8. Jim Humes admitted to him that there was something to his ideas about alteration (This was discredited when Lifton played his tape of Humes in Chicago)

9. JFK's body was hijacked and went to some other location where something called trajectory reversal took place (That is holes were punched in his corpse etc.)

10. The photos of the back of the head are real

I understand his new book, if its ever published (let us hope its not) will somehow blame the cover up on RFK

All of the above is, in my view, complete and utter BS

There are some good things in Horne's book, but it is hard to escape the implication that he served as an appendage of Lifton on the ARRB.

What a list! He has obviously attacked a lot of researchers and people interested in the JFK assassination over the years, but I had no idea it was this obvious! Thanks, Jim!

[Jim DiEugenio]

Thanks Jim.

I was exposed to a lot of Lifton at the EF.

Albert: So what if we are critical of Livingstone at CTKA?

That does not mean there is not anything at all in his books that has value. I mean there is even stuff in Lamar Waldron's books that has some value.

Its just a matter of wading through all the thousands of pages of litter to get to the ten or twenty pages of good stuff. Which is what we do there.

http://www.ctka.net/reviews/kaleidoscope...stone.html

See the last section.

[Albert Doyle]

^ I seriously suggest you take another look at the twin arrival claim. Your criticism of it is very cursory and doesn't reflect how strong a case Lifton has or nearly answer all the questions involved. There was an X-Ray technician who was carrying Kennedy's X-Rays up the stairs at Bethesda who looked out the window and saw the second ambulance pulling up to the front entrance for the second arrival. Don't forget the different coffins and body wrappings, and don't forget the visible surgery to the head that was noticed at the start of the official autopsy. Where did that come from and when was it done? And don't forget the new Air Force 1 tapes that also show coordination of a helicopter lift. By the same measure, I agree Lifton has serious issues as shown in your list, however I think he has discovered something very important with the twin arrivals.



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