22-10-2015, 01:54 PM
Carsten Wiethoff Wrote:Thanks Peter for your asssessment of the situation and the possible consequences.
As we can clearly see, the earth has undergone severe changes in temperature, CO2 levels, destruction of habitats and creation of new habitats.
The species of earth have adapted, mass extinction events included. There has always been a risk of a complete catastrophy, total destruction of the earth,
by meteorite or by nukes or otherwise.
The last few hundred years have seen a radical exponential growth in the human population numbers and in the surface area of the earth that is actively
manipulated by humans, fishing, foresting and above all agriculture, which has grave consequences for the animal and plant populations that used
to live there. Even if from now on not a single drop of oil, coal or gas will be burnt, the presence of 7 and soon 10 or 12 billion humans and the amount of resources
needed to keep them alive will continue to push a lot of species to adapt to other niches or go extinct. This fact has little to do with global warming
and CO2.
I think we have to come to a situation in which any major change in the environment, whether caused by humans or nature,
carries a high risk that the current number of people on the planet can not be supported any more and this may well lead
to more destructive events like wars, deforestation, more overfishing and more climate change that will turn the spiral
faster and faster. From an ethical standpoint billions of people starving and the rest fighting for survival with all means
is the ultimate human catastrophy and has to be avoided at all costs.
For this reason there is some ground to resist ANY change in the environment, but we have to realize that such resistance to change
is ultimately futile. Conditions on earth have always changed and this will not stop until finally the earth will stop existing.
The best we can hope for is to moderate change to avoid catastrophic cliffs and to make us more resilient to change. And of course
we have to accept that it is in our own interest as humans to preserve as much of the environment as possible, because we are connected with
and dependent on it in more ways than we can probably understand.
So what are the roads open to us, what behaviour in the future can be classified as good and what as bad, dangerous or evil?
Slowing down the rate of using non-renewable resources is certainly good, using renewable energy, improving the quality of
the soils reducing the necessity of fertilizers and pesticides, sustainable fishery, securing clean water supply, cleaning up the oceans
and avoiding nuclear pollution, these are trends that can be classified as good in my opinion. Also, on the human side, of course, improving education,
reducing war and instability, better wealth distribution, better conflict resolution and more tolerance for cultural/religious differences
are large issues, which directly influence the destruction of our environment.
CO2 is a factor in the environment, climate change is a factor in the environment, independent of causality and human origin.
But it is by far not the only factor and there are a lot of enormous problems threatening a catastrophic change of the environment.
And to come to the conclusion that humanity itself is the problem of the earth is in my firm belief ethically not acceptable and
also overstating the importance of humans in this world. Life will survive with or without us.
Sorry, I don't agree with your general premises [most of them].
Humans are the only thing/species to blame for this situation and what is coming.
Yes, there are all kinds of more progressive things, more peaceful things, more environmentally sound things humans can do, but as things stand now, we won't have the time to do them in any meaningful fashion [to have an effect more than a finger in the dyke that will soon flood over or burst.
I agree that humans are NOT the most important or only important species, but it would be a horrible situation for most or all of the 7, soon to be 9-12 billion of us to die horrible deaths - and we will take most all large and a majority of smaller life forms both plant and animal with us...we already have.
We need to not decrease fossil fuel burning, but end it IMMEDIATELY, if not sooner. I see NO likelihood of that happening soon. We are already at the point where we would have to invent methods to remove carbon from the atmosphere - something expensive to do...and the longer we wait the more expensive....and it will be resisted by the very forces that put the carbon in there in the first place - and others who deny we are to blame and don't want to spend half of human wealth to save the species and what is rest of the others.
It is a tipping point we have reached and soon nothing we do will stop an every increasing speed of change - all to the negative. Yes, the Planet with survive and some life on it....but not as we know it and without us and all we have done will be lost. Hubris on a planetary and species scale! Humans are the only species which can blush and the only one that has any need to. All life on the Planet are interdependent and we are more dependent on them then they are on us...and they are now sadly very dependent on us - as we are killing them off fast. Humans are a plague on the Planet like locusts and are devouring all resources just as locusts do.
There ARE solutions, but I don't think the average person is prepared for such drastic actions and I know governments are not....and corporations who profit from the Planet's rape even less so and they run the governments. It is a very sad moment in human and Earth history. Things will change very fast now. Your children will only vaguely remember the big and interesting mammals - their children won't see or hear of them except at zoos....and I wonder if the next generation will remember anything but storms, famines and wars - with most governments turning to totalitarian states. Biologists, climatologists and Environmental scientists and activists have been warning about this for decades. The Native Americans said it and predicted this hundreds of years ago. We are at the abyss and most are playing the fiddle and not looking where the edge is - it is VERY near!
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass

