30-07-2016, 07:33 AM
Drew Phipps Wrote:I'm not suggesting that Fuller is some sort of saint, just that he is publicly saying that the "coup" is bad for Turkey. I'd point out that a) him authoring a paper saying that "selling arms to Iran will increase our influence there" doesn't make him the architect of Bush's (not Reagan's) Iran/Contra - since we had almost zero influence there at the time, its practically a "no-brainer;" b) he wasn't actually officially employed by the CIA at the time Gulen emigrated here (although Rand might be a golden parachute for former CIA guys); c) Gulen has publicly denied being part of the "coup"; and d) Erdogan's people, who might have designed the whole false flag attack and stand to benefit from pinning it on Gulen, are saying that Gulen was involved. Qui bono?
Go read Fuller's blog. He doesn't sound like a neo-con to me, more like a conspiracy theorist (although I'm sure that he's just delighted to be linked to the Boston Marathon event by "Three Degrees of Fuller" game). You guys are openly cynical about almost all "official explanations" for events. Why the wide-eyed trust for this one?
No wide-eyed trust on my part. I doubt Paul has any either. On the contrary, it's a case of squint-eyed cynicism at play.
I assume by official explanation you mean the "Erdogan did it" explanation (otherwise I'm not sure what you mean)?
Firstly, the US has a long and unpleasant history in starting coup's (and the assassinations of heads of state) in foreign nations as an adjunct to the implementation of US foreign policy. Hence we are not dealing with something unusual in this respect. fomenting a coup is a "go to" option for the US.
The obvious reason why the US was behind this coup attempt was Erdogan's pivot to Russia - that became fully public with his astonishing letter of apology to Putin (HERE) a complete volte face from his earlier refusal to apologize for downing the aircraft. Add to this his growing disillusionment with the US for supporting, financing and arming his deadly enemies in Syria (HERE) and you have the backdrop to the event.
Pivoting to Russia would be seen as the ultimate betrayal in Washington and alone would be sufficient reason to depose him - especially given Turkey's strategic position.
Note that in the early hours of the coup, when the leaders felt they had been successful, they publicly announced that they would (I forget the actual words) continue to adhere to their agreements with their friends and allies etc. It was a telling statement.
Lastly, the "Erdogan did it" explanation played out across the western media as soon as it became apparent that the coup had failed. By which I mean to say, our media is never going to collectively state the obvious and finger-point at Washington. For me, the Erdogan did it was a prepared fall-back position in case the project failed.
Now I have a question for you, Drew. Why the wide-eyed trust of the American and western official position, given the background and the facts? Because a CIA asset says he's innocent? And because his one-time CIA handler says it ain't true?
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14