01-10-2009, 03:21 PM
Re: SoS
Very interesting. The original post's quote confuses ELF and VHF audio and radio, but this is resolved in microwave-induced audio in David's excellent little essay.
Re: Jesus and Qumran
From what I understand of it. both Jesus and John the Baptist were part of the sect that was at Qumran. The Qumran types were both Essenes AND Zadokites, i.e. Sadducees, probably something new and not quite one or the other. The sect that was at Qumran was normally very secretive and protective, while John and Jesus were quite public. Jesus added a large measure of Galilean millenianlism and apocalypse to the mix, although the rehoabitism was endmeic to both the Galilee cults and the sect that was at Qumran, and provides a context to an earlier underground Judaism, prior to Solomon's Temple, that knew its roots were Egyptian and preserved a certain amount of esoterica.
What happened is that Jesus fell out with the sect that was at Qumran, or was excommunicated, for disclosing the mysteries to the uninitiated, or, as the followers of John put it, twisting the truth, i.e., lying. He warped the treasures, the Johannites wrote.
This schism between John the Baptist and Jesus, perhaps post-mortem in essence, can be seen if you read between the lines of the appropriate New Testament passages. GRS Mead's John the Baptizer has more on this. Fortunetaly, the followers of John survive until today and have their own scripture, see Lady Drower's Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran.
Paul's role was initially as infiltrator of the various sects then current on behalf of a nascent novel Jewish orthodoxy working in tandem with the Roman occupation. Qumran had a codename used by the followers to keep the place secret. Pauls' rabbi was involved in rounding up supposedly heretical Aramaic translations of the Book of Job. An Aramaic translation of Job is known from Cave 11 I believe (or Cave 4?) at Qumran. The chances are good Paul was on the way to Qumran, not Damascus, although the Zadokite/Essene group had allegedly fled to Syria before, during times of persecution.
As for the personalities of the Wicked Priest and the Good Teacher and all the rest, it appears they refer to an earlier mass crucifixion of members of a group that was the antecedent to the Qumran Zadokites/Essenes, in Jerusalem, long before Jesus was born.
It's interesting that Pope Ratzinger has made these statements, I was not aware of this. St. Augustine of Hippo's mother was of course Monica the Manichean. St. Augustine was a gnostic until he converted to Roman Christianity. Bishop Pike of the Anglican Church faced a similar kind of dilemma over doctrine in the 1960s, what to tell the Little People concerning the truth of what is in the Bible.
Vermes of course was blamed for suppressing a lot of what the Scrolls Commission did, delaying publication and the whole thing. Edmund Wilson got blamed for sparking controversy where there was none. John Allegro might have been a Methodist, I am not aware of that, but he was the only non-cleric on the Commission, a linguist, and he is usually said to have been non-sectarian or even atheist. He said the Essenes' name came from Sumerian ESSOI, whose meaning I forget. His assertion of an Amanita muscaria cult behind the Scrolls also points back to Egypt, where there is circumstantial evidence for an ancient Amanita cult, although I don't remember him making that connexion in Sacred Mushroom and the Cross.
That the parables were for outsiders while the inner group of believers got the plain truth in Christianity is well known. Morton Smith's discovery of correspondence from Clement of Alexandria concerning the same theme, knowledge for the initiated and denial of facts to outsiders, is only one very small piece of evidence for the fact tht Christianity was composed of an inner and an outer group, i.e. it had an esoteric and exoteric aspect (see his Secret Gospel).
James the Just Jesus's brother doesn't seem to have been a Christian at all, but was coopted for duty later. He was apparently assassinated at the Temple in Jerusalem. The sources say he was High Priest of the Temple in Jeruslaem, which makes zero null no sense if the High Priest ordered Jesus crucified (Antipas or Calaphais or Anaias or whatever his name was, I forget). James would be anathema as the heretic's brother. The Mandaeans confirm that John the Baptist's parents were aged and thought to be sterile when he was conceived. His mother was Elzbieta, Miriam's sister, I think they say. His father was, guess what, one of the High Priests in Jerusalem. The story is an angel heralded John's birth and a star was seen high in the heavens. There is also a story that Zachariah saw an ass in the Temple. That's an old joke and is a way of saying the paternity was in question.
Anyway, that's my take on it, not that I know a whole lot about it.
Very interesting. The original post's quote confuses ELF and VHF audio and radio, but this is resolved in microwave-induced audio in David's excellent little essay.
Re: Jesus and Qumran
From what I understand of it. both Jesus and John the Baptist were part of the sect that was at Qumran. The Qumran types were both Essenes AND Zadokites, i.e. Sadducees, probably something new and not quite one or the other. The sect that was at Qumran was normally very secretive and protective, while John and Jesus were quite public. Jesus added a large measure of Galilean millenianlism and apocalypse to the mix, although the rehoabitism was endmeic to both the Galilee cults and the sect that was at Qumran, and provides a context to an earlier underground Judaism, prior to Solomon's Temple, that knew its roots were Egyptian and preserved a certain amount of esoterica.
What happened is that Jesus fell out with the sect that was at Qumran, or was excommunicated, for disclosing the mysteries to the uninitiated, or, as the followers of John put it, twisting the truth, i.e., lying. He warped the treasures, the Johannites wrote.
This schism between John the Baptist and Jesus, perhaps post-mortem in essence, can be seen if you read between the lines of the appropriate New Testament passages. GRS Mead's John the Baptizer has more on this. Fortunetaly, the followers of John survive until today and have their own scripture, see Lady Drower's Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran.
Paul's role was initially as infiltrator of the various sects then current on behalf of a nascent novel Jewish orthodoxy working in tandem with the Roman occupation. Qumran had a codename used by the followers to keep the place secret. Pauls' rabbi was involved in rounding up supposedly heretical Aramaic translations of the Book of Job. An Aramaic translation of Job is known from Cave 11 I believe (or Cave 4?) at Qumran. The chances are good Paul was on the way to Qumran, not Damascus, although the Zadokite/Essene group had allegedly fled to Syria before, during times of persecution.
As for the personalities of the Wicked Priest and the Good Teacher and all the rest, it appears they refer to an earlier mass crucifixion of members of a group that was the antecedent to the Qumran Zadokites/Essenes, in Jerusalem, long before Jesus was born.
It's interesting that Pope Ratzinger has made these statements, I was not aware of this. St. Augustine of Hippo's mother was of course Monica the Manichean. St. Augustine was a gnostic until he converted to Roman Christianity. Bishop Pike of the Anglican Church faced a similar kind of dilemma over doctrine in the 1960s, what to tell the Little People concerning the truth of what is in the Bible.
Vermes of course was blamed for suppressing a lot of what the Scrolls Commission did, delaying publication and the whole thing. Edmund Wilson got blamed for sparking controversy where there was none. John Allegro might have been a Methodist, I am not aware of that, but he was the only non-cleric on the Commission, a linguist, and he is usually said to have been non-sectarian or even atheist. He said the Essenes' name came from Sumerian ESSOI, whose meaning I forget. His assertion of an Amanita muscaria cult behind the Scrolls also points back to Egypt, where there is circumstantial evidence for an ancient Amanita cult, although I don't remember him making that connexion in Sacred Mushroom and the Cross.
That the parables were for outsiders while the inner group of believers got the plain truth in Christianity is well known. Morton Smith's discovery of correspondence from Clement of Alexandria concerning the same theme, knowledge for the initiated and denial of facts to outsiders, is only one very small piece of evidence for the fact tht Christianity was composed of an inner and an outer group, i.e. it had an esoteric and exoteric aspect (see his Secret Gospel).
James the Just Jesus's brother doesn't seem to have been a Christian at all, but was coopted for duty later. He was apparently assassinated at the Temple in Jerusalem. The sources say he was High Priest of the Temple in Jeruslaem, which makes zero null no sense if the High Priest ordered Jesus crucified (Antipas or Calaphais or Anaias or whatever his name was, I forget). James would be anathema as the heretic's brother. The Mandaeans confirm that John the Baptist's parents were aged and thought to be sterile when he was conceived. His mother was Elzbieta, Miriam's sister, I think they say. His father was, guess what, one of the High Priests in Jerusalem. The story is an angel heralded John's birth and a star was seen high in the heavens. There is also a story that Zachariah saw an ass in the Temple. That's an old joke and is a way of saying the paternity was in question.
Anyway, that's my take on it, not that I know a whole lot about it.