23-10-2018, 04:09 AM
(This post was last modified: 23-10-2018, 07:16 AM by Anthony Thorne.)
I suspect Metta's book deserves a better discussion thread than this one. Regardless -
It's an Italian company, in Italy. You'd assume that Italians were involved with it. Mellen also mentions Ferenc Nagy as being part of the leadership of PERMINDEX, and that Nagy was a 'longtime asset of CIA Deputy Director of Plans, Frank Wisner'. Wisner, in the thick of CIA and anti-communist figures like Dulles, Paul Nitze, John McCloy, Richard Bissell and maybe twenty others I'm too tired to copy out in detail from his Spartacus page, was later heavily involved in the Gladio activities in Italy, of which Borghese would eventually figure prominently.
As noted, Borghese was heavily involved in the environment of attempted coups within Italy throughout the 60's and 70's, which was detailed years ago in Jeffrey Bale's 600+ page thesis on Borghese's life.
https://www.scribd.com/document/36253206...of-Tension
Borghese carried out many of those activities with his countrymen, utilising various right-wing elements from Italian military and criminal circles. So I'm not sure why the presence of Borghese should automatically point to ex-Nazi involvement, rather than the involvement of Borghese's fellow Italians, simply as Borghese had moved within those Nazi circles decades earlier. Who was he going to find more of in Italy during the time of CMC's activities - ex-Nazi's, or rightwing Italians sympathetic to his cause?
Again, I'm not sure how one can argue that the involvement of Italians within an Italian company inside Italy is a false front for other groups. Did Shaw run CMC or just work for it in a capacity? I thought it was the latter. And if 'various Italians' are involved with activities related to CMC, how do then you infer that this is an attempt to create a false front, rather than simply being various Italians involved in CMC?
How is it probable that Nazis ran Centro, which Nazis do you think ran it, and which documentation do you have - beyond your mention of a paragraph in the Tetens book - that supersedes the many pages of documentation in Metta's volume? Also, which source do you think we should refer to to learn about CMC? Metta's lengthy volume or the Tetens book?
All that said, since I'm looking at your argument
The Tetens book is linked here.
https://archive.org/details/TH_Tetens_Th..._Old_Nazis
and after a long search I found the one mention of 'Centro' in the book, page 203, in which he refers to 'Centro Europa', and never calls it by the singular name 'Centro', which just means "Center' (or 'Centre' if you're using the UK spelling), so to infer that it's the same Centre as the Centre World Commercial - 'Centro Mondo Commeciale' - seems a bit of a reach.
I notice that Metta has put up a page reprinting a dozen pages of his CMC documentation. It's here.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mettacmc/s...531531120/
It has a lot of names included. I see Shaw's name, and the names of a lot of Italian folk, but not a lot of ex-Nazis. Is there any other documentation linking ex-Nazis to CMC beyond the Tetens book you cite, which barely seems related to the topic of CMC at all? Other than the mention of 'Centro Europa' there's no mention of CMC or 'Centro Mondo Commerciale' in the index of the Tetens book at all, so it's a bit of a jump.
Quote:As in Joan Mellen's descriptions of the Centro-Mondo Commercialle, she quickly mentions ONCE that there were Nazis who were members. Then we go on and hear about all kinds of Italians who were involved.
It's an Italian company, in Italy. You'd assume that Italians were involved with it. Mellen also mentions Ferenc Nagy as being part of the leadership of PERMINDEX, and that Nagy was a 'longtime asset of CIA Deputy Director of Plans, Frank Wisner'. Wisner, in the thick of CIA and anti-communist figures like Dulles, Paul Nitze, John McCloy, Richard Bissell and maybe twenty others I'm too tired to copy out in detail from his Spartacus page, was later heavily involved in the Gladio activities in Italy, of which Borghese would eventually figure prominently.
Quote:What we do know about the Italian Centro-Mondo Commerciale was that it included Count Junio Valerio Borghese
As noted, Borghese was heavily involved in the environment of attempted coups within Italy throughout the 60's and 70's, which was detailed years ago in Jeffrey Bale's 600+ page thesis on Borghese's life.
https://www.scribd.com/document/36253206...of-Tension
Borghese carried out many of those activities with his countrymen, utilising various right-wing elements from Italian military and criminal circles. So I'm not sure why the presence of Borghese should automatically point to ex-Nazi involvement, rather than the involvement of Borghese's fellow Italians, simply as Borghese had moved within those Nazi circles decades earlier. Who was he going to find more of in Italy during the time of CMC's activities - ex-Nazi's, or rightwing Italians sympathetic to his cause?
Quote:there are elaborate scenarios of various Italians included in a sort of smorgasboard of activities which would try and "put a face" (a false face?) on the Centro Mondo Commercialle. ...The only face that belongs on that activity as it relates to the JFK assassination is the involvement of Clay Shaw
Again, I'm not sure how one can argue that the involvement of Italians within an Italian company inside Italy is a false front for other groups. Did Shaw run CMC or just work for it in a capacity? I thought it was the latter. And if 'various Italians' are involved with activities related to CMC, how do then you infer that this is an attempt to create a false front, rather than simply being various Italians involved in CMC?
Quote:This could be viewed as an attempt to divert attention away from the Nazis who probably ran Centro
How is it probable that Nazis ran Centro, which Nazis do you think ran it, and which documentation do you have - beyond your mention of a paragraph in the Tetens book - that supersedes the many pages of documentation in Metta's volume? Also, which source do you think we should refer to to learn about CMC? Metta's lengthy volume or the Tetens book?
All that said, since I'm looking at your argument
Quote:veteran German expert T H Tetens describes "Centro" of Switzerland as a welfare fund for worldwide Nazi fugitives. We know that Centro was booted out of Italy
The Tetens book is linked here.
https://archive.org/details/TH_Tetens_Th..._Old_Nazis
and after a long search I found the one mention of 'Centro' in the book, page 203, in which he refers to 'Centro Europa', and never calls it by the singular name 'Centro', which just means "Center' (or 'Centre' if you're using the UK spelling), so to infer that it's the same Centre as the Centre World Commercial - 'Centro Mondo Commeciale' - seems a bit of a reach.
I notice that Metta has put up a page reprinting a dozen pages of his CMC documentation. It's here.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mettacmc/s...531531120/
It has a lot of names included. I see Shaw's name, and the names of a lot of Italian folk, but not a lot of ex-Nazis. Is there any other documentation linking ex-Nazis to CMC beyond the Tetens book you cite, which barely seems related to the topic of CMC at all? Other than the mention of 'Centro Europa' there's no mention of CMC or 'Centro Mondo Commerciale' in the index of the Tetens book at all, so it's a bit of a jump.