Paul Craig Roberts on the Lies of WWII

[Peter Lemkin]

I'm defending my posting this article. But before giving my reasons, I certainly was shocked by Robert's statement about death camps vs work camps. In addition to Sobibor, Treblinka, and Chelmno were also death camps. Even the slave labor camps worked people to death by policy and that was after the selections. Roberts does not even mention the Einsatzgruppen in Russia which was certainly not the work of some distant bureaucrat. Personally, I affirm that Jewish peoples were targeted for extermination.

My reason for putting this up was to show another side of PCR, who has been quoted here many times favorably. Be reminded the majority of his article is about Hitler vs. Churchill and associated material.

Secondly, the one tidbit he does say that I think is obvious is how much Zionist Israel benefits from the holocaust. Gilad Atzmon, the grandson of member of the Irgun, and who fought in the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, calls it Israel's state religion. His discussions of Jewish identity politics in The Wandering Who? should be seriously considered.

Finally, revisionist histories about the holocaust should not automatically be labeled anti-Semitic. There is a lot of complexity, for example, in the Zionist attitudes toward the Nazis. Nothing makes this point better than the Haavara Agreement. Here is an excellent discussion.

Look, the topic is even more complex that what is thus far on this thread. My direct family lost several hundred 'Lemkins' in the Holocaust. My uncle devoted his life to this subject. My parents studied it too, as have I. Many Zionists were or are neo or not-so neo-fascist. But even they do NOT deny the Holocaust....primarily against Jews, but against MANY other groups too. I do not see, even with the 'explanation' why you or anyone would put up a post stating that the deaths called the Holocaust were due to typhus alone. Most of the people who perished in the Holocaust didn't have time to get typhus and most were dead and coming out of a crematorium as smoke and ashes the very same day they arrived from the cattle-cars they were transported on. Others were just walked into trenches and shot while the soon-to-be dead watched on. I still don't see the point being made that excuses this mention by Irving and somehow tacitly OK'd by you by posting it. There was the idea to have the Jewish 'homeland' in Madagascar, which Hitler and the Nazis were big on for a long time. There were non-Nazis who actively participated in the Holocaust: in Poland, in Ukraine, and many other places - and by inaction in most others - with notable exceptions. And one could go on. Many Jews at the time considered themselves to be citizens of the country they were born and lived in...others [in the Pale] mostly considered themselves as rather stateless - or the 'state' they were assigned to changed almost every few years. Some wanted to leave [and many left for the USA, some for Israel or other places], most wanted to stay. And the complexities go on, and I'm not going to list them all...and yes, it goes back to events from WWI and even before. Russia has a long history of antisemitism and mini-holocausts called Pogroms. If you don't like the Zionist neo-fascists in Israel now, I don't see how this history throws much light on that and lends itself to bringing up false propaganda of the Nazis and others as truths. Even most Israeli citizens do not really like their government, although slightly less than a majority, it seems, have drunk the Cool-Aide that they are not on the land of another people, namely the Palestinians and running an Apartheid state - although MANY do see that as clearly as I just stated it. Conflating anti-Zionism with anti-Jewishness is dangerous. I was just reading about the Spanish Inquisition which was mostly against the Jews, but not only. This history is long and complex and very decisive. I disagree with most everything the Israeli Government now does - but I do agree with them, and 99% of historical scholars, on this about the Holocaust. I personally believe more than 6 million died...but I'm not going to argue that here. What is certain is that at minimum 6 million Jews died [and approx. and equal number of others] at the hands of the Nazis - and about half of the Jews were killed within hours of arrival at the death/labor camps; and those not killed outright were there to be worked to death. Several camps had a special designation by the SS that 'no one was EVER to leave alive' [because some of the slave labor were working on classified projects] - even thought all the others had the same policy without the special designation. I do not see this as a valid topic to explore here. I did battle with Irving briefly on his website. There are specialized forums for this. I hope this thread dies, or is closed, and nothing like it shows its like again...... IF the real intention was to show some other side of Roberts, it could have been done another way and stating in your post about your not agreeing with his statements by Irving on the Holocaust.....but that still allows the Propaganda to be posted and some is so poisonous, I don't even think it right to post the full text of it - less so without clear disclaimers....but best not at all.