18-01-2009, 04:55 PM
I can see that you have done your homework Damien, and credit to you that you have.
But "trust" a financial institution? Gosh. 20-year old virgins and all that, eh? :bootyshake:
The fact is that todays fractional reserve banking system was developed by the gold market (the London Rothschilds to be precise -- unless I am conflating things with the Templar Knights because of a failing memory -- but I don't think I am).
They reasoned that gold was heavy and expensive to deliver and thereafter expensive and hard to keep safely so as to avoid robbery etc. And so they instituted a system whereby they gave a buyer paper receipts for their gold holdings instead of delivering the metal. This became popular because the Rothschilds name was trusted (God alone knows why).
With this system operating well, they went out and sold the metal they held in trust for their other customers to other buyers. And on and on and on. They were confidant that no more than a few owners would ever demand delivery of the metal at any one time and so they would be safe selling the same gold over and over again. And they were right.
It is only when a properly functioning banks/markets break down that people understandably demand delivery of their deposits, otherwise known as a "run" on a bank. BCCI being one example, where thousands of depositors lost their entire wealth and savings to a crooked bank. Northern Rock almost became another had it not been for the government stepping in (and now the government is financially very fragile and shaky as a result of NR and the others).
The fact is that we are no longer in a properly functioning banking system. So my advise to anyone who buys gold is to take delivery. If they can. And then hold that gold for the next couple of years - and don't blink once. This is for a peace of mind investment rather than profit.
If you want to invest in gold, i.e., play the markets for profit, use paper gold. That's it's only purpose. But physical is for that rainy day when the world balances on the edge of a crevice. Rather like today for example.
Having that gold in a bank in Zurich or London (and thinking its not also owned by a couple of dozen other so called "owners" too) won't be of any use in an emergency, especially if the banking system fails you when you really need it. As it usually does.
That'll be $1000.00 please, payable to the "Guyatt Survival Fund 2009".
But "trust" a financial institution? Gosh. 20-year old virgins and all that, eh? :bootyshake:
The fact is that todays fractional reserve banking system was developed by the gold market (the London Rothschilds to be precise -- unless I am conflating things with the Templar Knights because of a failing memory -- but I don't think I am).
They reasoned that gold was heavy and expensive to deliver and thereafter expensive and hard to keep safely so as to avoid robbery etc. And so they instituted a system whereby they gave a buyer paper receipts for their gold holdings instead of delivering the metal. This became popular because the Rothschilds name was trusted (God alone knows why).
With this system operating well, they went out and sold the metal they held in trust for their other customers to other buyers. And on and on and on. They were confidant that no more than a few owners would ever demand delivery of the metal at any one time and so they would be safe selling the same gold over and over again. And they were right.
It is only when a properly functioning banks/markets break down that people understandably demand delivery of their deposits, otherwise known as a "run" on a bank. BCCI being one example, where thousands of depositors lost their entire wealth and savings to a crooked bank. Northern Rock almost became another had it not been for the government stepping in (and now the government is financially very fragile and shaky as a result of NR and the others).
The fact is that we are no longer in a properly functioning banking system. So my advise to anyone who buys gold is to take delivery. If they can. And then hold that gold for the next couple of years - and don't blink once. This is for a peace of mind investment rather than profit.
If you want to invest in gold, i.e., play the markets for profit, use paper gold. That's it's only purpose. But physical is for that rainy day when the world balances on the edge of a crevice. Rather like today for example.
Having that gold in a bank in Zurich or London (and thinking its not also owned by a couple of dozen other so called "owners" too) won't be of any use in an emergency, especially if the banking system fails you when you really need it. As it usually does.
That'll be $1000.00 please, payable to the "Guyatt Survival Fund 2009".
Damien Lloyd Wrote:David Guyatt Wrote:Damien Lloyd;3057
I owned the gold, but never saw it. [url=http://www.bullionvault.com Wrote:www.bullionvault.com[/url] I can assure you I was extremely unsure about this site at first. But did a little research and gave it a go, I'd also recommend it to anyone. Of course as a british based company I have no idea what would happen if the British government tried to steal the gold the way the federal reserve did. I've been told that keeping it in a zurich vault would protect it but I have no idea if it's true. I'm waiting for a price correction before jumping back in. Have a look at the site and tell me what you think.
Frankly, I'd be cautious. Demand for physical metal outstrips mining/lifting annually by several multiples and has done so for many years (over a decade I think). Almost every ounce of metal goes to India and Middle Eastern Souks for the jewelry trade -- apart from that quantity that is required for the medical trade and defence etc.
My concern here is that they may own some physical metal but are possibly (probably even?) leveraging it many times over. That's why you don't take physical delivery under their system -- there's many more owners than metal. What you might consider doing is trying to buy some coins like Krugerrands or Brittiania's (free of VAT). The latter come in various sizes ike the ounce coin, half ounce, quarter and tenth. They all sell at a premium, but you can take physical delivery and stash them under your bed...
I understand the reluctance, believe me I do. It took me about 4 weeks of reading everything I could about this company before I decided to trust them and bought a little gold (just a few grammes at first, they even gave me a free gramme). The reason you don't take physical delivery is because you may purchase 1 or 2 grammes, but those grammes may be part of a 9 ounce London Good Deliver Bar. Once you own a bar you can arrange for it to be delivered to you, but then the bar is obviously no longer "Good" and may be harder to sell, I think you can also arrange for delivery of smaller amounts. They have the gold in 3 vaults London Zurich and New York run by a company called Via Mat. Every gramme of gold is accounted for at the end of every day with a report from Via Mat that you can access that shows you who owns what inside each of the vaults. They claim they have a finite amount of physical gold, and if none is for sale, then you won't be able to buy it unless you up your price until someone sells.
These guys think like me, and I'm guessing (but feel a little presumptious) like many of you. Here are there strategic objectives:
BullionVault's objective is to create the world's most cost-effective, secure and accessible market in professional grade gold bullion.
We want to do this because :-http://www.bullionvault.com/help/index.d...nance.html
- We believe there is a deficit of financial responsibility in many modern governments and financial institutions.
- We believe that modern currencies and other paper based value systems will inhibit savers from retaining their domestic and worldwide purchasing power.
- We believe that using gold to provide protection from this problem is a strategy which has become inaccessible to individuals.
- We believe that we are uniquely well qualified to re-build that accessibility and to manage the service in a way which maximises security, accessibility and value for our customers.
I do have a really pretty 1997 half ounce Britannia, but I only got to look and and remind myself thats where (I hoped) my money was. I trust this company, I was extremely dubious at first but they "feel" right.
I should point out that if you look at thier site you will notice that you can make money from refering people to the site. Please understand I am not, to do so I would have had to have given you the web address www.bullionvault.com and then added my username which I have not done.
The benefit of this site over having posession of the gold is the speed at which you can sell it, you set a sell price and sit back hoping the price meets yours like selling shares but a little easier. If the price shot up to £800 per ounce, then fell to £600 per ounce the next day. I'm guessing most people who owned physical gold would not be able to sell in time (because of being at work etc).
Off the topic of gold however (and because I really need to rant about this) I received a letter from my bank today which says that because I went over my agreed overdraft limit (by £6) on December 24th, and didn't put any money into my account until December 29th (Monday after Xmas) they are charging me £123.06.... B******ds. I spent 2 hours arguing with them on the phone but they won't budge. So I told them I was enacting my right to subject access under the Data Protection Act 1998, and wanted copies of all of my statements for the last 6 years. I'm getting in line, taking them to court and joining everybody else who is fighting against their punative charges that only exist to bleed money from the people who have the least amount of it.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14