06-08-2012, 01:37 AM
Peter said:
None of us have to walk on egg shells as a president does. And I have no dispute with your hopes for the future in this country. One need only to study the changes that have occurred in many European nations, some of which had been dictatorships 75 years ago (Germany, Italy, Spain, and Portugal were not the only ones). But it is important to understand that the United States is probably going to be the last vestige of an undemocratic economy and that elites will not go down without fighting to their last breath to try to maintain their power.
You speak of the US Constitution (and the Declaration of Independence?) Did you know that the words "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" were originally intended to be "life, liberty, and the pursuit of PROPERTY"? Yet, someone in the writing of this document, probably Jefferson, realized that the term "Property" was not the real goal of a democratic peoples. He/they knew what had happened to Greece thousands of years before when their wealthy elites destroyed the fledging Greek democracy. Greek economy was an early form of private ownersip of the means of production (capitalism).
If John Kennedy had survived the assassination and then gone on to win with Lyndon Johnson, his choice of Vice-President, it could have become a far different country than what it is today, I believe. They would have received the overwhelming mandate from the nation's people in November 1964, as that which Lyndon Johnson received and which gave him the will to get legislation passed to achieve so many democratic goals, many of which we enjoy today (although efforts are going on to remove them). It is the will of the people that a president can use and should use to achieve such goals. As long as we still have the teeniest vestige of democracy left to vote in the candidate who just might give us some progress for a truly democratic nation, I think the choice is already being made for us in this year's campaign, and it is up to the American people however it turns out.
I don't expect to see it in my lifetime, but I hope my children just might. And I hope the change to a full democracy would not be violent, although I do fear that it may be. I still feel optimistic that it can be done, but the steps have to be small ones at each time, and it will take time. It has happened in our lifetimes in other countries already; I just want it to happen here, too, as I am sure you do, as well.
Adele
Quote:Sadly. One would hope an African-American President might 'get it'. Sadly, like Clarance Thomas, I fear he doesn't, or is so controlled by forces around him, he can't express them. I have moved quickly from the second position, to the first. He just doesn't get it. He is a Constitutional lawyer who is helping dismantle and castrate/eviscerate/negate the Constitution...not uphold it and reinforce it. While I hold my nose and hope Obama wins over Romney, it is a false choice we are forced to make between bad and worse. I'd like to see a Green or a Democratic Socialist or some other Progressive party run and win and not have their candidate assassinated before or after the election. Now, that is impossible. For this form of government I have no hope anymore, I still have a modicum for the People, if [and only if] they will awake SOON and act together to forge a new one. It has happened over and over again in history and this country is desperately in need of such now. It really won't disturb as much as some fear, only the Elites will suffer - as well they should - as they built this onerous unethical, unequal, unlawful, untruthful, neo-fascist, imperialist, and murderous - often genocidal mess. Rant over. Again, may your optimism prevail over my cynicism - nearly complete at this stage.
None of us have to walk on egg shells as a president does. And I have no dispute with your hopes for the future in this country. One need only to study the changes that have occurred in many European nations, some of which had been dictatorships 75 years ago (Germany, Italy, Spain, and Portugal were not the only ones). But it is important to understand that the United States is probably going to be the last vestige of an undemocratic economy and that elites will not go down without fighting to their last breath to try to maintain their power.
You speak of the US Constitution (and the Declaration of Independence?) Did you know that the words "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" were originally intended to be "life, liberty, and the pursuit of PROPERTY"? Yet, someone in the writing of this document, probably Jefferson, realized that the term "Property" was not the real goal of a democratic peoples. He/they knew what had happened to Greece thousands of years before when their wealthy elites destroyed the fledging Greek democracy. Greek economy was an early form of private ownersip of the means of production (capitalism).
If John Kennedy had survived the assassination and then gone on to win with Lyndon Johnson, his choice of Vice-President, it could have become a far different country than what it is today, I believe. They would have received the overwhelming mandate from the nation's people in November 1964, as that which Lyndon Johnson received and which gave him the will to get legislation passed to achieve so many democratic goals, many of which we enjoy today (although efforts are going on to remove them). It is the will of the people that a president can use and should use to achieve such goals. As long as we still have the teeniest vestige of democracy left to vote in the candidate who just might give us some progress for a truly democratic nation, I think the choice is already being made for us in this year's campaign, and it is up to the American people however it turns out.
I don't expect to see it in my lifetime, but I hope my children just might. And I hope the change to a full democracy would not be violent, although I do fear that it may be. I still feel optimistic that it can be done, but the steps have to be small ones at each time, and it will take time. It has happened in our lifetimes in other countries already; I just want it to happen here, too, as I am sure you do, as well.
Adele