Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis

[Jeffrey Orling]

EDITED 9.29.13 5pm

I am posting femr2's response to Tony's post... (which I DID NOT WRITE) published on the 9/11 FreeForum. I don't like to use wods like liar. I have received many insults on many forums related to 9/11 which range from dis info agent, to NIST shill and so worse. I don't really care as these sorts of insults avoid the substance of my commentary. Tony has been told many times what errors he has made and he refuses to face them. I only report... you decide:

Before I spend time compiling details for the Tony exclusive thread, this post was made by him recently...

Tony wrote:

"The North Tower never decelerates and a natural collapse would have to. This is something Jeffrey seems to get tongue tied explaining.

He also forgets to tell you that his ROOSD (Runaway Outer Office Space Destruction or more commonly known as pancaking) requires a significant number of floors to be broken loose, so there needs to be column destruction during the first several stories of the collapse before ROOSD can even start.

By saying ROOSD explains everything Jeffrey is trying to tell you that a horse isn't required to pull the cart and that it magically moves on its own.

P.S. the only individuals who have ever called me a liar were anonymous individuals with wacky ideas and postulations on the JREF Forum. It is a disgrace that you would even say that here. Neither you or anyone on the JREF Forum has ever shown me to be in error, you only try to say you have. So it is also disgraceful for you to talk as though you and these anonymous individuals have. Your discourse here reminds me of that of a teenager telling fibs about things he has done to impress people."

The dissection...

Tony: The North Tower never decelerates

Tony has been shown repeatedly that not only is this statement a nonsensical suggestion, but that it is verifiably and provably false...

Here is the acceleration plot from the data Tony actually uses. HIS (well, Chandlers' data)...



As can be seen, HIS OWN DATA contains "jolts".

The techniques by which that data was extracted from video are extremely primitive, with Chandler skipping over 90% of the available measurements.

Here is the data extracted by utilizing every available frame of the same video (though a better quality version than the awful copy Chandler chose to use)...





Tony has been told many, many times how to replicate generation of these plots, which show:

a) Tony's assertion of "missing jolt" to be false.
b) Tony's assertion of "constant acceleration" to be false.
c) Tony's assertion of "smooth motion history" to be false.

Tony has CHOSEN to ignore such data, and refuses to carry out the work to prove it to himself, despite being provided with step by step instructions.

Instead Tony chooses to reject such data with pathetic excuses.

Again, IF Tony wanted such data to have a "name" attached to it, he is quite capable of generating it himself. Tony clearly DOES NOT want such data attached to his own name, as it destroys several of his oft-repeated false axioms.

a natural collapse would have to

Tony has been told many, many times why this statement is not fact. There are many reasons why behaviour of disconnected members during collapse of a structure may not present itself at a singular trace location on the building, in this case the NW corner of the building.

Tony chooses to cling to that false statement, and pretends to be deaf when told yet again.

This is something Jeffrey seems to get tongue tied explaining.

Tony has proven himself repeatedly and willfully deaf to all criticism. If clear fact affects his position he resorts to rejecting information based on such pathetic excuses as "you are not using your real name", even when Tony is perfectly capable of understanding the truth in such facts and replicating the information for himself.

He knows the facts are true. He chooses to repeat statements he knows to be false.

..OMITTED...

He also forgets to tell you that his ROOSD (Runaway Open Office Space Destruction or more commonly known as pancaking) requires a significant number of floors to be broken loose.

Tony has been told repeatedly and provided data to illustrate that a significant number of floors are NOT required to initiate ROOSD. Tony was even involved in the process of determining the energy requirements for propagation.



2 would suffice. 3 would be better.

Tony knows the detail above. He chooses to make false statements as above anyway.

The source of ROOSD and the number of floors required to propagate originates from us at the911forum. Tony has not performed any independent calculations to suggest values above those provided above.

He simply CHOOSES to make up figures he thinks will fool people into supporting his position.

Despicable behavior.

Tony: so there needs to be column destruction during the first several stories of the collapse before ROOSD can even start.

Absolutely false. All that has to happen for ROOSD to begin is for a could of OOS regions to detach from core and perimeter, requiring far less energy that would be required to "destroy" core and perimeter columns.

By saying ROOSD explains everything Jeffrey is trying to tell you that a horse isn't required to pull the cart and that it magically moves on its own.

Tony has run out of steam and resorted to waxing lyrical here. No-one says ROOSD explains everything. Tony cannot comprehend that ROOSD is not a virtual "suggestion", it is simply a name for OBSERVABLE BEHAVIOR that actually happened in the real world. It is not a "theory" in that sense.

Tony: P.S. the only individuals who have ever called me a liar were anonymous individuals with wacky ideas and postulations on the JREF Forum.

False. Tony has been called a liar by many folk outside of JREF, including myself. I do not use the word lightly, and it is only through several years of telling Tony fact, then seeing him utterly ignore those facts and continue to post lies that I call him a liar. It is not an opinion, it is fact, and can be proven (as it will be in the new thread for compiling his destructive behavior)

It is a disgrace that you would even say that here.

Lying is a disgraceful act. Tony should stop lying, both to himself and to others.

Tony: Neither you or anyone on the JREF Forum has ever shown me to be in error

Utterly false, as will be proven with a huge list of instances in the fore mentioned thread.

Your discourse here reminds me of that of a teenager telling fibs about things he has done to impress people.

HA HA HA. It is interesting that Tony doesn't get "pulled" for these kind of pathetic insults, which have the potential for far more irritation and escalation .................... But, hey, all forums have biased moderation to some extent. Pity the discussion over there is so pathetic. I'd estimate about 5% of the population there actually understand the technical details. The rest simply choose to accept whichever opinion they prefer. Sad.