19-07-2014, 05:25 AM
(This post was last modified: 19-07-2014, 07:10 AM by Peter Lemkin.)
To date, the most damning evidence I've seen is the chaff. I'm not an expert, but it looks like it to me. Experts familiar with it should be able to very easily ID it from the photos or from pieces on the ground among the wreckage [if given access]. That would be very damning indeed......but, I caution people from automatically then pointing a finger at just one side. Two 'sides' and possibly three have planes. While the Ukrainian military might [MIGHT!] be the more logical villain in such a scenario - they are not the only possible one. It even could be NATO or others. False flag ops can be very strange indeed - just remember 9-11. And remember 'starwars' - which was the ability to fire things from platforms in orbit - so one may not need a plane or a SAM - although a space platform won't need chaff..... Also, the purported 'tapes' or doctored tapes are suspicious - but could be false flag, or false-false flag or false-false-false flag, or other.
The problem is there is not yet access to the wreckage. Apparently, late yesterday an OSCE group of experts came to examine the wreckage and were at first allowed some brief access of a few hours - and then forced to leave by the separatist forces there. Today, the bodies are just rotting and no experts are yet present as of mid-morning Ukraine time. [N.B. several independent reports state that the bodies seem to not have signs of blood. This is likely due to blood 'boiling off' due to rapid decompression at high altitude. One family had a body break through their roof and crash into the kitchen. They specifically reported how strange there were no bloodstains.] The relatives of those killed are soon heading to Ukraine - but I doubt if they'll soon get to identify and take home their dead....as the bodies first need to be marked, photographed, mapped, injuries examined, taken to a morgue in a larger city, and then identified - all in an active war zone. Additionally, it seems not all bodies can be accounted for yet. Some might never be found, and some will only be parts identified by DNA. Some were likely blown to smithereens and/or burned.
It could turn out that what/who caused this event is forever clouded in claims and counter-claims - fog.
The problem is there is not yet access to the wreckage. Apparently, late yesterday an OSCE group of experts came to examine the wreckage and were at first allowed some brief access of a few hours - and then forced to leave by the separatist forces there. Today, the bodies are just rotting and no experts are yet present as of mid-morning Ukraine time. [N.B. several independent reports state that the bodies seem to not have signs of blood. This is likely due to blood 'boiling off' due to rapid decompression at high altitude. One family had a body break through their roof and crash into the kitchen. They specifically reported how strange there were no bloodstains.] The relatives of those killed are soon heading to Ukraine - but I doubt if they'll soon get to identify and take home their dead....as the bodies first need to be marked, photographed, mapped, injuries examined, taken to a morgue in a larger city, and then identified - all in an active war zone. Additionally, it seems not all bodies can be accounted for yet. Some might never be found, and some will only be parts identified by DNA. Some were likely blown to smithereens and/or burned.
It could turn out that what/who caused this event is forever clouded in claims and counter-claims - fog.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass