FBI Evidence Proves Oswald's Ammunition was not Capable of Sufficient Accuracy to Kill JFK

[John Lewis]

Hello to all,

I found this site whilst searching for information on Italian Carcanorifles as I may have an opportunity to purchase one coming up.

To introduce my self and to provide some background on the things Iregistered here to post on; I am from the UK, early 40's I am aRegistered Firearms Dealer by trade and operate two shooting clubs. Ihave been involved with firearms and shooting in one form or anothersince I was about 10.

I have always had an interest in the Kennedy assassination and, for therecord, I do subscribe to the line of thinking that Oswald shot himfrom the window in question. I wasn't always of that inclination the theory outlined in the Mortal Error book was actually verygood from a firearms and ballistics standpoint.

So,with that out of the way, I have addressed some of the points belowwhich I think do not support the theory that Oswald's rifle was notaccurate enough to do what he accused of doing. As an aside; therifle on which I may have an opportunity to purchase is described asbeing very accurate by its owner and is actually his only remainingcentre-fire rifle which he has had for decades.

My comments below the original text (snipped for brevity).

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Butenough of Italian ammunition. The real reputation for inaccuracyenjoyed by the Carcanos began after WWII when these rifles beganshowing up on the domestic market in North America. There are many6.5mm calibre rifles in the world and they all share one thing incommon; a bore diameter of 6.5 mm or about .256". The riflinggroove diameter of these rifles (also the bullet diameter) is alsoidentical in every single one of these rifles EXCEPT the 6.5mmCarcano. While the world standard diameter for 6.5 mm bullets is.264", the makers of the Carcano elected to cut deeper riflinggrooves in these barrels, and this rifle will only shoot accuratelywith a bullet that is .268" in diameter; the groove diameter ofa Carcano barrel.

The problem is well detailed in thisarticle:

http://kegisland.com/carcano-ammo-wa...-partizan.html

Asstrange as it may sound, until 2002, the only 6.5mm bulletsmanufactured to a diameter of .268" were those loaded intoItalian military cartridges pre-1945. In other words, for just over50 years, sporting ammunition was made for Carcano rifles but, EVERYSINGLE MANUFACTURER was loading bullets into these cartridges thatwere too small. Finally, in 2002, Hornady addressed this problem, andmade available to handloaders 6.5mm Carcano bullets that were theproper diameter of .268".

Tothose unfamiliar with ballistics, a difference in diameter of only.004" may seem insignificant, yet this is all that is needed toentirely throw off the accuracy of a Carcano rifle. Not only do therifling grooves have insufficient grip on the smaller bullet togyroscopically stabilize it in flight, there are now four gaps aroundthe bullet, each .002" deep, that allow the propellant gasesdriving the bullet down the barrel to escape past the bullet;diminishing velocity.

I cannot agree with this assessment. The difference between bullet diameter and groove diameter (in this particular case) is highly unlikely to cause significant inaccuracy.

The bore diameter is .256 and the bullet diameter is .264. A depth of .006" is ample for the bullet to engrave the rifling so that it is spun sufficiently to make it accurate. Also, the 160 grain round nose bullet in question has a very long bearing-surface (the part which engages the bore/rifling) meaning that any stresses imparted by the rifling are spread over an unusually large area. Therefore, a deep engraving of the bullet is not required for it to be rotated properly.

If you look at pictures of CE399 you will see strong rifling marks clearly visible on the jacket. CE399 was definitely spun at the same rate of twist as the rifling marks on it it simply could not have left the rifle looking any other way. Had it skipped over the rifling (which is the only way that it could not have been spun correctly) then it would not look like that.

Deep rifling is not needed to stabilse modern jacketed bullets. Modern firearms commonly use much shallower rifling than older ones like the Carcano and work quite well like that.

Any propellant gases lost via blow-by (gas escaping past the bullet) would be minimal indeed and would have very little measurable effect. In fact it may well be the case that there was none at all as the bullet would have likely swaged up to fill the rifling almost completely. It is not clear from looking at pictures of the rifling marks (as opposed to the land marks) CE399 whether that was indeed the case if anyone has any very good close-ups of it it would be most illuminating.

I own a Mannlicher-Schoanauer model 1903 carbine which uses an almost identical round. I have not slugged the barrel but it is factory marked as being 6.7mm which is a diameter of .2637". This is the bore diameter, not the grove diameter. As has been correctly pointed out, all current and past 6.5mm bullets, with the exception of the Carcano ones measure .264". Steyr, the maker of my rifle, knew this yet still produced rifles with a a bore diameter of only .003" smaller. I would guess that grove diameter of my rifle is at least .268. The author of the document linked to here has identified one rifle with a groove diameter of .269"! Remember, all the available ammo used .264" bullets.

To qualify all of that; yes, a bore which is larger than the bullet diameter, especially significantly so will have an effect on accuracy and can cause gas blow-by which also theoretically can have an effect. These are all very small matters though and the effect on shots taken at short range is insignificant. The problem of gas blow-by isn't really one of accuracy, it is one of barrel wear. Gas which is attempting to get through a very small gap as we are talking about here leads to localised very high pressures and temperatures which causes undue wear to the the bore.

On the matter of the Hornady .268" bullets. They are not .268". I have recently acquired a box and they come out at about .2665".

This, of course, leads us to the ammunition purportedly used by Oswald to kill JFK; namely, the 6.5x52 mm Carcano ammunition manufactured by the Western Cartridge Co. of East Alton, Illinois, USA. The FBI provided a lovely little cock and bull story about the WCC manufacturing 4 million rounds of this ammunition in 1954 for the USMC who, of course, had no weapons capable of shooting this ammunition. In cloak and dagger fashion right out of the Spy vs. Spy comics, the FBI hints that this ammunition was, in fact, made for the CIA and spirited away to arm anti-Communist factions in some remote Third World theatre. It is an amusing story, and almost believable, until one looks at this period in history and realizes there were no armed conflicts, at that period in time, where one or both of the factions had a preponderance of 6.5mm Carcano rifles.

I cannot comment on the history of the WCC ammo in question. However I do remember some years ago hearing (and I can't recall where I heard or possibly read this) that the ammo in question was actually assembled using bullets which had been pulled from surplus Italian ammo. This would seem to make sense as the Italian military ammo was, as you point out, of rather poor quality. Also, the WCC bullets do look a lot like pictures of ones I've seen pulled from Italian ammo.

At this point, it should be pointed out that the ammunition for the Greek infantry rifle, the 6.5x54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer Greek, was about as close as you could get to a 6.5x52 mm Carcano cartridge. The main difference is the .264" diameter bullet loaded into the Mannlicher-Schoenauer cartridge and the .268" diameter bullet loaded into the Carcano cartridge.



6.5 x 54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer cartridge (.264" bullet diameter)



6.5 x 52 mm Carcano cartridge (.268" bullet diameter)

Interestingly, the rimless bases of the two cartridges and the angle of the shoulders are identical. The only differences are the overall length of the cartridges (54 mm vs. 52 mm) and the fact that the shoulder of the Carcano cartridge is 1 mm closer to the base than the MS shoulder is. For this reason, you CANNOT load a 6.5x54mm MS cartridge into a Carcano rifle, as the shoulder will bottom in the chamber just before the bolt is closed, but you CAN load a 6.5x52mm Carcano cartridge into a 6.5mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifle and close the bolt. The only thing stopping you from pulling the trigger is the knowledge that you have loaded a cartridge into your 6.5mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer that is loaded with a bullet that is .004" too big for the MS barrel, and if you pull the trigger, the rifle could blow up in your face.

I have to say that that is highly unlikely especially given that, as pointed out above, M/S rifles have large bores as well. Indeed given that the Carcano round is shorter and there is more free space in the chamber it is likely to produce a lower chamber pressure than the correct 6.5x54mm ammo.