27-11-2014, 01:12 AM
Hello, new user this is my first post.
I am Scottish, and an ardent Scottish nationalist, at least in terms of wanting self-determination for Scotland ie independence obviously.
I am having a hard time getting over this, it has been absolutely devastating, and the no vote was achieved 100% on lies, fear and intimidation with a sprinkling of bigotry.
All my life the British establishment has called us subsidy junkies (when in truth we have been subsidising them), then as soon as we looked like leaving it was all "oh please don't go...we love you" etc etc.
I don't doubt for a second if the UK govt could have fixed the result they would have, so I think that only leaves the question of whether they could. I believe they certainly could, given it was the UK electoral commission running the vote. Though I'm not sure that did actually happen, but could never be convinced that it didn't. We should have had international observers.
I just feel cheated out of our destiny. We have been lied to for decades over the value of North Sea oil, and continue to be so. During the referndum campaign we were told from all sides that it would last 15-35 years and by 2050 would be worth absolutely nothing to the British exchequer, not a penny, just a break even business till it was all gone, which it would be by 2050 anyway. Six days (6 DAYS!!!!) after the referendum there was an article on the BBC saying it will now last at least this whole century.
We had a referendum on devolution in 1979, at which time they told us the oil was gone by 1990. We actually voted yes to that but an amendment was tabled saying it required 40% of the electorate to back it to pass, which we didn't reach. Most people don't know this, but there was actually a Home Rule for Scotland bill passed through parliament in 1914, but was shelved because of the outbreak of WWI. We still don't have Home Rule now 100 years later.
I am a member of the SNP, have been for a long time, though I don't participate other than to pay my dues. I did some leafleting for the referendum but that was it. I suffer from Social Anxiety Disorder so doing things like that is not something I enjoy but this was important, the most important thing anyone in Scotland had ever been involved in to that point.
I work mostly with foreigners mostly Americans, it is very hard for an outsider to understand, and it was difficult to explain it all to them in a way that they could.
I wish I could say I believe Scotland definitely will one day be independent, but I'm honestly not sure. The British govt wrote the book on colonialism and are the oldest of old hands at putting down uprisings in their colonies, which is exactly what we are. They are insidious, underhanded, shameless, sleekit to use a great Scottish word, and very, very smart. They control almost all media print and broadcast and obviously all the levers of power, and are absolutely DESPERATE to keep hold of us. The UK is broke, we run a trade surplus they run a massive trade deficit, we have lower structural deficit than the UK, lower unemployment, an absolute abundance of natural resources, and currently produce more power than we use. They can't afford to lose us.
Just yesterday there was an article in the Scotsman about a project to pupe water from Scotland, which we have an embarrassment of, to England, where they have huge shortages. It is estimated to cost £14 billion to build, though we all know how these projects tend to go way above budget. We will have to pay our share of that, even though we have no choice in the matter and will be literally paying to give one of our natural resources away, we won't be paid for the water we give England.
As I say I don't think if you aren't Scottish you can really understand how devastating and heartbreaking all this is and all the complexities behind it, like many I shed a lot of tears on the 19th of September, but I thought this was a good thread and liked the attitudes shown and some of the great articles posted. I just hope one day I get to live in an independent Scotland so we can run our own affairs, manage our own budgets and use our own natural resources for our own benefit.
If you are unsure about it or don't really care, please just understand that the yes camp are very much the good guys in this, despite how they have been painted, and the no camp are the neoliberal, right-wing, racist, imperialist liars that will say or do anything to keep hold of a very valuable asset. We really need your help long term, we are trying to take on the full might of the British establishment which is ranged against us, political, media, diplomatic and economic, and its a hell of a fight for what is just a wee powerless country just now, so please support us when the issue comes round again as it surely will.
I am Scottish, and an ardent Scottish nationalist, at least in terms of wanting self-determination for Scotland ie independence obviously.
I am having a hard time getting over this, it has been absolutely devastating, and the no vote was achieved 100% on lies, fear and intimidation with a sprinkling of bigotry.
All my life the British establishment has called us subsidy junkies (when in truth we have been subsidising them), then as soon as we looked like leaving it was all "oh please don't go...we love you" etc etc.
I don't doubt for a second if the UK govt could have fixed the result they would have, so I think that only leaves the question of whether they could. I believe they certainly could, given it was the UK electoral commission running the vote. Though I'm not sure that did actually happen, but could never be convinced that it didn't. We should have had international observers.
I just feel cheated out of our destiny. We have been lied to for decades over the value of North Sea oil, and continue to be so. During the referndum campaign we were told from all sides that it would last 15-35 years and by 2050 would be worth absolutely nothing to the British exchequer, not a penny, just a break even business till it was all gone, which it would be by 2050 anyway. Six days (6 DAYS!!!!) after the referendum there was an article on the BBC saying it will now last at least this whole century.
We had a referendum on devolution in 1979, at which time they told us the oil was gone by 1990. We actually voted yes to that but an amendment was tabled saying it required 40% of the electorate to back it to pass, which we didn't reach. Most people don't know this, but there was actually a Home Rule for Scotland bill passed through parliament in 1914, but was shelved because of the outbreak of WWI. We still don't have Home Rule now 100 years later.
I am a member of the SNP, have been for a long time, though I don't participate other than to pay my dues. I did some leafleting for the referendum but that was it. I suffer from Social Anxiety Disorder so doing things like that is not something I enjoy but this was important, the most important thing anyone in Scotland had ever been involved in to that point.
I work mostly with foreigners mostly Americans, it is very hard for an outsider to understand, and it was difficult to explain it all to them in a way that they could.
I wish I could say I believe Scotland definitely will one day be independent, but I'm honestly not sure. The British govt wrote the book on colonialism and are the oldest of old hands at putting down uprisings in their colonies, which is exactly what we are. They are insidious, underhanded, shameless, sleekit to use a great Scottish word, and very, very smart. They control almost all media print and broadcast and obviously all the levers of power, and are absolutely DESPERATE to keep hold of us. The UK is broke, we run a trade surplus they run a massive trade deficit, we have lower structural deficit than the UK, lower unemployment, an absolute abundance of natural resources, and currently produce more power than we use. They can't afford to lose us.
Just yesterday there was an article in the Scotsman about a project to pupe water from Scotland, which we have an embarrassment of, to England, where they have huge shortages. It is estimated to cost £14 billion to build, though we all know how these projects tend to go way above budget. We will have to pay our share of that, even though we have no choice in the matter and will be literally paying to give one of our natural resources away, we won't be paid for the water we give England.
As I say I don't think if you aren't Scottish you can really understand how devastating and heartbreaking all this is and all the complexities behind it, like many I shed a lot of tears on the 19th of September, but I thought this was a good thread and liked the attitudes shown and some of the great articles posted. I just hope one day I get to live in an independent Scotland so we can run our own affairs, manage our own budgets and use our own natural resources for our own benefit.
If you are unsure about it or don't really care, please just understand that the yes camp are very much the good guys in this, despite how they have been painted, and the no camp are the neoliberal, right-wing, racist, imperialist liars that will say or do anything to keep hold of a very valuable asset. We really need your help long term, we are trying to take on the full might of the British establishment which is ranged against us, political, media, diplomatic and economic, and its a hell of a fight for what is just a wee powerless country just now, so please support us when the issue comes round again as it surely will.