07-07-2014, 03:47 AM
- 3/1973 Nixon considers appointing J. Lee Rankin (formerly of the Warren Commission) as Special Prosecutor.
- 3/1973 NY Times published a series of articles by historians and scholars who worried that Nixon was systematically usurping the authority of both Congress and the courts in both his domestic and foreign policies.
- 3/1/1973 Eric Eisenstadt memo for CIA's deputy director for plans: "Current Time Magazine Investigation of Robert R. Mullen and Company." Time reporter Sandy Smith had come to the Mullen office 2/27 and announced that a Justice Department source said the company was a CIA front. Mr. Mullen stoutly denied the allegation. "Smith had many questions concerning Howard Hunt, such as how he secured Mullen employment and his salary…Bob Bennett…said that he recently spent four hours in Los Angeles being interviewed by a Newsweek reporter and had convinced him that the Mullen Company was not involved with the Watergate affair. Mr. Bennett rather proudly related that he is responsible for the article Whispers about Colson' in the March 5 issue of Newsweek. Mr. Bennett does not believe the company will be bothered much more by the news media which is concluding that the company is clean and has gotten a real bum rap while the real culprits are getting scot free.' Mr. Bennett also said that he has been feeding stories to Bob Woodward of the Washington Post with the understanding that there would be no attribution to Bennett. Woodward is suitably grateful for the fine stories and by-lines which he gets and protects Bennett (and the Mullen Company)." (Secret Agenda appendix)
- 3/2/1973 A federal grand jury in Dallas returned indictments of illegal wiretapping against Nelson Bunker Hunt, William Herbert Hunt, Clyde Wilson and Morgan Watson.
- 3/2/1973 US ambassador Cleo A. Noel Jr., US Charge d'Affaires George C. Moore and Belgian Charge d'Affaires Guy Eid were killed by Palestinian guerillas in Khartoum, Sudan.
- 3/3/1973 Haig's envoy, Col. Volney Warner, arrived at the Wounded Knee standoff.
- 3/5/1973 The Los Angeles Times reported that "a notebook and an address book that...Hunt has said were left in his White House office have never been received by the FBI, according to federal investigators." John Dean was supposed to have turned all of Hunt's materials over to the FBI.
- 3/6/1973 Spiro Agnew insisted that draft dodgers must admit "it is they who have erred and not the country...Now that the anti-war movement has collapsed, all those idle protestors have to have something to shout about."
- 3/6/1973 Administration reimposed mandatory price controls on the oil industry to stem inflation.
- 3/6/1973 Samuel A. Adams, a CIA analyst who had specialized in analyzing Vietnamese communist motivation, morale and strength 1966-72, testified at the Pentagon Papers trial that political pressures in '67 and '68 caused the US military to purposely underestimate the strength of the communists in Vietnam. He specifically blamed Westmoreland and Wheeler. The CIA was estimating at the time that the communists had 500,000 men, while Westmoreland was saying to the press that "the enemy was running out of men." (Los Angeles Times 3/7/1973)
- 3/7/1973 John Dean is named Nixon's liaison on Watergate matters.
- 3/12/1973 Al Haig received a detailed contingency plan for attacking the Indians at Wounded Knee, using Army troops. (General's Progress 214)
- 3/13/1973 Oval Office meeting (12:42pm - 2:00pm) between Nixon and Dean, with Haldeman briefly present. John Dean made a remark about the accident at Chappaquidick, saying, "If Kennedy knew the bear trap he was walking into…"
Pres. Nixon: Also, the Senator should then present it to the Ervin Committee and demand that that be included.
John Dean: What I am working on there for Barry is a letter to Senator Ervin that this has come to my attention, and why shouldn't this be a part of the inquiry? And he can spring out 1964 and quickly to '72. We've got a pretty good speech there, if we can get out
our materials.
John Dean: Well you are probably going to get more questions this week. And the tough questions. And some of them don't have easy answers. For example, did Haldeman know that there was a Don Segretti out there? That question is likely.
Pres. Nixon: Did he? I don't know.
John Dean: Yes, he had knowledge that there was somebody in the field doing prankster-type activities.
Pres. Nixon: Well, I don't know anything about that....I think the thing to say is, "this is a matter being considered by the Committee and I am not going to comment on it." I don't want to get into the business of taking each charge that comes up in the Committee and commenting on it: "It is being considered by the Committee. It is being investigated and I am not doing to comment on it."
John Dean: Well, the bottom line, on a draft that (unintelligible). But if you have nothing to hide, Mr. President, here at the White House, why aren't you willing to spread on the record everything you know about it? Why doesn't the Dean Report be made public? Why doesn't everything come out? Why does Ziegler stand up there and bob and weave, and no comment? That's the bottom line.
John Dean: Well, then you will get a barrage of questions probably, in will you supply - will Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Ehrlichman and Mr. Dean go up to the Committee and testify?
Pres. Nixon: No, absolutely not.
John Dean: Mr. Colson?
Pres. Nixon: No. Absolutely not. It isn't a question of not - Ziegler or somebody had said that we in our executive privilege statement it was interpreted as meaning that we would not furnish information and all that. We said we will furnish information, but we are not going to be called to testify. That is the position. Dean and all the rest will grant you information. Won't you?
John Dean: Yes. Indeed I will!...Now the other thing that we talked about in the past, and I still have the same problem, is to have a "here it all is" approach. If we do that.
Pres. Nixon: And let it all hang out.
John Dean: And let it all hang out. Let's with a Segretti - etc.
Pres. Nixon: We have passed that point.
John Dean: Plus the fact, they are not going to believe the truth! That is the incredible thing!
Pres. Nixon: They won't believe the truth, and they have committed seven people!
John Dean: That's right! They will continually try to say that there is (unintelligible)
Pres. Nixon: They hope one will say one day, "Haldeman did it," and one day, one will say I did it. When we get to that question - they might question his political savvy, but not mine! Not on a matter like that!
John Dean: I have a thing on Sullivan I would like to ask you. Sullivan, as I told you, had been talking with me and I said Bill I would like for my own use to have a list of some of the horribles that you are aware of. He hasn't responded back to me, but he sent me a note yesterday saying John I am willing at any time to testify to what I know if you want me to. What he has, as we already know, he has something that has a certain degree of a dynamite situation already - the '68 Presidency, surveillance of Goldwater.
Pres. Nixon: I thought he said he saw that the '68 bugging was ordered, but he doesn't know whether it was carried out.
John Dean: Now the other thing, if we were going to use a package like this: Let's say in the Gray hearings - where everything is cast that we are the political people and they are not - that Hoover was above reproach, which is just not accurate, total (expletive omitted). The person who would destroy Hoover's image is going to be this man Bill Sullivan. Also it is going to tarnish quite severely.
Pres. Nixon: Some of the FBI.
John Dean: . . . some of the FBI. And a former President. He is going to lay it out, and just all hell is going to break loose once he does it. It is going to change the atmosphere of the Gray hearings and it is going to change the atmosphere of the whole Watergate hearings. Now the risk ...
Pres. Nixon: How will it change?
John Dean: Because it will put them in context of where government institutes were used in the past for the most flagrant political purposes.
Pres. Nixon: How can that help us?
John Dean: How does it help us?
Pres. Nixon: I am being the devil's advocate.
John Dean: I appreciate what you are doing. It is a red herring. It is what the public already believes. I think the people would react: (expletive deleted), more of that stuff! They are all bad down there! Because it is a one way street right now.
Pres. Nixon: Why is Sullivan willing to do this?
John Dean: I think the quid pro quo with Sullivan is that he wants someday back in the Bureau very badly.
Pres. Nixon: That's easy....Do you think after he did this, the Bureau would want him back? Would they want him back?
John Dean: I think probably not. What Bill Sullivan's desire in life is, is to set up a domestic national security intelligence system, a White House program. He says we are deficient. He says we have never been efficient, because Hoover lost his guts several years ago. If you recall he and Tom Huston worked on it. Tom Huston had your instructions to go out and do it and the whole thing just crumbled....That's all Sullivan really wants. Even if we could put him out studying it for a couple of years, if you could put him out in the CIA or someplace where he felt - put him there.
Pres. Nixon: We will do it.
John Dean: I don't know if he has given me his best yet. I don't know whether he's got more ammunition than he has already told me. I will never forget a couple off-the-cuff remarks.
Pres. Nixon: Why do you think he is now telling you this? Why is he doing this now?
John Dean: Well, the way it came out when TIME Magazine broke on the fact that it charged that the White House had directed that newsmen and White House staff people be subjected to some sort of surveillance for national security reasons. I called, in tracking down what happened, I called Sullivan and I said, "don't you think you ought to come over and talk to me about it and tell me what you know." I was calling to really determine whether he was a leak. I was curious to know where this might have come from because he was the operative man at the Bureau at the time. He is the one who did it. He came over and he was shocked and distraught and (unintelligible). Then, after going through with his own explanation of all what had happened, he started volunteering this other thing. He said John this is the only thing I can think of during this Administration that has any taint of political use but it doesn't really bother me because it was for national security purposes. These people worked with sensitive material on Vietnam that was getting out to reporters.
Pres. Nixon: Of course, the stuff was involved with the (expletive deleted) Vietnam war.
John Dean: That's right. Then he told me about going to (location and name deleted) and all that, and he said, "John that doesn't bother me, but what does bother me is that you all have been portrayed as politically using"-
Pres. Nixon: And we never did.
John Dean: And we never have! And he said the Eisenhower Administration didn't either.
Pres. Nixon: Never.
John Dean: He said the only times that he can recall that there has been a real political use has been during Democratic tenure. I said for example, Bill, what are you talking about? Then he told me of the Walter Jenkins affair, when DeLoach and Fortas, etc. -
Pres. Nixon: The Kennedy's, let me say, used it politically in that steel thing. That was not national security was it?
Pres. Nixon: Does he know about the bugging in '68?
John Dean: Yep! I think he would tell everything. He knows!
Pres. Nixon: You do?
John Dean: Uh huh. That's what I am saying he is a bomb!...I just have a feeling that it would be bad for one Bill Sullivan to quietly appear on some Senator's doorstep, and say, "I have the information you ought to have." Well, "where did you get it?" "Why are you up here?" "Well the White House sent me." That would be bad! The other thing is, maybe this information could be brought to the attention of the White House, and the White House could say to Eastland, "I think you ought to call an executive session and hear his
testimony.
Pres. Nixon: Could we go after the Bureau? I don't know whether we could or not.
John Dean: Not quite after the Bureau. What they are doing is taking the testimony of somebody who is going after the Bureau.
Pres. Nixon: I know that. I am just thinking. They will look down the road and see what the result of what they are doing is, won't they? I would think so. Would they go after Johnson? Let's look at the future. How bad would it hurt the country, John, to have the FBI so terribly damaged?
John Dean: Do you mind if I take this back and kick it around with Dick Moore? These other questions. I think it would be damaging to the FBI, but maybe it is time to shake the FBI and rebuild it. I am not so sure the FBI is everything it is cracked up to be. I am convinced the FBI isn't everything the public think it is.
Pres. Nixon: No.
John Dean: I know quite well it isn't.
John Dean: Well if they say they have to hold up Gray's confirmation until the Watergate Hearings are completed -
Pres. Nixon: That's great!
John Dean: That's the vehicle.
Pres. Nixon: That's a vote really for us, because Gray, in my opinion, should not be the head of the FBI. After going through the hell of the hearings, he will not be a good Director, as far as we are concerned.
John Dean: I think that is true. I think he will be a very suspect Director. Not that I don't think Pat won't do what we want - I do look at him a little differently than Dick in that regard. Like he is still keeping in close touch with me. He is calling me. He has given me his hot line. We talk at night, how do you want me to handle this, et cetera? So he still stays in touch, and is still being involved, but he can't do it because he is going to be under such surveillance by his own people - very move he is making - that it would be a difficult thing for Pat. Not that Pat wouldn't want to play ball, but he may not be able to.
Pres. Nixon: The difficulty with the White House being involved is that if we are involved in this (expletive deleted), that Is why it ought to be that he just.
John Dean: We have a little bomb here that we might want to drop at one time down the road. Maybe the forum to do it in is something totally out of context between the Gray hearings and the Watergate hearings. Maybe we need to go to the US News, sir. Who knows what it would be, but we ought to consider every option, now that we've got it....That NBC thing last night, which is just a travesty as far and we're talking about shabby journalism, they took the worst edited clips out of context, with Strachan saying he was leaving. And then had a little of clip of Ron saying, "I deny that." And he was denying something other than what they were talking about in their charge. It was incredible. Someone is going through and putting that altogether right now and Ron ought to be able to (unintelligible) to that one on NBC. It was a very, very dishonest television reporting of sequence of events, but out of sequence...Well one thing, the saturation level of the American people on this story is cracking. The saturation level in this city is getting pretty high now, and they can't take too much more of this stuff.
Pres. Nixon: Think not?
John Dean: There is nothing really new coming out.
Pres. Nixon: I talked with some kid and he said I don't think that anybody incidentally would care about anybody infiltrating the peace movement that was demonstrating against the President, particularly on the War in Vietnam.
John Dean: What happened is that these Mexican checks came in. They were given to Gordon Liddy, and said, "why don't you get these cashed?" Gordy Liddy, in turn, put them down to this fellow Barker in Florida, who said he could cash these Mexican checks, and put them with your Barker's bank account back in here. They could have been just as easily cashed at the Riggs Bank. There was nothing wrong with the checks. Why all the rigamorole? It is just like a lot of other things that happened over there. God knows why it was all done. It was totally unnecessary, and it was money that was not directly involved in Watergate. It wasn't a wash operation to get money back to Liddy and the like.
Pres. Nixon: Who is going to be the first witness up there?
John Dean: Sloan....He's scared, he's weak. He has a compulsion to cleanse his soul by confession. We are giving him a lot of stroking.....Sloan will be the worst witness. I think Magruder will be a good witness. This fellow, Bart Porter, will be a good witness. They have already been through Grand Jury. They have been through trial. They did well. And then, of course, people around here.
Pres. Nixon: None will be witnesses.
John Dean: They won't be witnesses?
Pres. Nixon: Hell, no. They will make statements. That will be the line which I think we have to get across to Ziegler in all his briefings where he is constantly saying we will provide information. That is not the question. It is how it is to be furnished. We will not furnish it in a formal session. That would be a break down of the privilege. Period.
John Dean: No one knows what in the world Sirica is doing. It is getting to be a long time now. It frankly is, and no one really has a good estimation of how he will sentence. There is some feeling that he will sentence Liddy the heaviest. Liddy is already in jail, he is in Danbury. He wants to start serving so he can get good time going. Hunt, he will probably be very fair with.
Pres. Nixon: Why?
John Dean: He likes Hunt - he thought Hunt was being open with him and being candid, and Hunt gave a statement in open court that he didn't know of any higher ups involved and Hunt didn't put him through the rigors of trial. Hunt was a beaten man who had lost his wife, was ill, and still they tried to move to have him severed from the trial. And Hunt did not try to cause a lot of problems. Bittman was cooperative, whereas Liddy played the heavy in the trial. His lawyer raised all the objections and the like, and embarrassed the Judge for some in-chambers things he had said.
Pres. Nixon: But Liddy is going to appeal the sentence?
John Dean: Liddy is going to appeal the decision, the trial. He will appeal that.
Pres. Nixon: He will appeal the trial? He was convicted!
John Dean: There is an outside chance that this man, this Judge, has gone so far in his zeal to be a special prosecutor
Pres. Nixon: Well some of those statements from the Bench -
John Dean: Incredible statements!
Pres. Nixon: To me, incredible!
John Dean: Commenting on witnesses testimony before the Jury, was just incredible. Incredible! So there may be a mistrial. Or maybe reversible error.
Pres. Nixon: What about the Cubans?
John Dean: The Cubans will probably be thought of as hired hands, and receive nowhere near the sentence of Liddy, I would think. Not all of them. Barker, the lead Cuban, may get more than the others. It is hard to say. I just don't have any idea. Sirica is a strange man. He is known as a hanging judge.
Pres. Nixon: Public hearings the first of May. Well it must be a big show. Public hearings. I wouldn't think though, I know from experience, my guess is that I think they could get through about three weeks of those and then I think it would begin to peter out somewhat. Don't you agree?
John Dean: No, I -
Pres. Nixon: ITT went longer, but that was a different thing, and it seemed more important....Well, so be it. I noticed in the news summary Buchanan was viewing with alarm the grave crisis in the confidency of the Presidency, etc....How much of a crisis? It will be - I am thinking in terms of - the point is, everything is a crisis. (expletive deleted) it
is a terrible lousy thing - it will remain a crisis among the upper intellectual types, the soft heads, our own, too - Republicans - and the Democrats and the rest. Average people
won't think it is much of a crisis unless it affects them. (unintelligible)
John Dean: I think it will pass. I think after the Ervin hearings, they are going to find so much - there will be some new revelations. I don't think that the thing will get out of hind. I have no reason to believe it will.
Pres. Nixon: Oh, yes - there would be new revelations.
John Dean: They would be quick (inaudible) They would want to find out who
knew -
Pres. Nixon: Is there a higher up?
John Dean: Is there a higher up?
Pres. Nixon: Let's face it, I think they are really after Haldeman.
John Dean: Haldeman and Mitchell.
Pres. Nixon: Colson is not big enough name for them. He really isn't. He is, you know, he is on the government side, but Colson's name doesn't bother them so much. They are after Haldeman and after Mitchell.....I don't know, Bob didn't know any of those people like the Hunts and all that bunch. Colson did, but Bob didn't. OK?
John Dean: That's right.
Pres. Nixon: Now where the hell, or how much Chapin knew I will be (expletive deleted) if I know.
John Dean: Chapin didn't know anything about the Watergate.
Pres. Nixon: Don't you think so?
John Dean: Absolutely not.
Pres. Nixon: Strachan?
John Dean: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: He knew?
John Dean: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: About the Watergate?
John Dean: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: Well, then, he probably told Bob. He may not have.
John Dean: He was judicious in what he relayed, but Strachan is as tough as nails. He can go in and stonewall, and say, "I don't know anything about what you are talking about."
Pres. Nixon: But he knew? He knew about Watergate? Strachan did?
John Dean: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: I will be damned! Well that is the problem in Bob's case. Not Chapin then, but Strachan. Strachan worked for him, didn't he?
John Dean: Yes. They would have one hell of a time proving that Strachan had knowledge of it, though.
Pres. Nixon: Who knew better? Magruder?
John Dean: Magruder and Liddy.
Pres. Nixon: Oh, I see. The other weak link for Bob is Magruder. He hired him et cetera.
John Dean: That applies to Mitchell, too.
Pres. Nixon: Mitchell-Magruder. Where do you see Colson coming into it? Do you think he knew quite a bit and yet, he could know quite a great deal about a lot of other things and not know a lot about this. I don't know.
John Dean: Well I have never -
Pres. Nixon: He sure as hell knows Hunt. That we know. Was very close to him.
John Dean: Chuck has told me that he had no knowledge, specific knowledge, of the Watergate before it occurred....I think that Chuck had knowledge that something was going on over there, but he didn't have any knowledge of the details of the specifics of the whole
thing.
John Dean: No, Segretti wasn't involved in the intelligence gathering piece of it at all.
Pres. Nixon: Oh, he wasn't? Who the hell was gathering intelligence?
John Dean: That was Liddy and his outfit.
Pres. Nixon: Apart from Watergate?
John Dean: That's right. Well you see Watergate was part of intelligence gathering, and this was their first thing. What happened is -
Pres. Nixon: That was such a stupid thing!
John Dean: It was incredible - that's right. That was Hunt.
Pres. Nixon: To think of Mitchell and Bob would have allowed - would have allowed - this kind of operation to be in the campaign committee!
John Dean: I don't think he knew it was there.
Pres. Nixon: I don't think that Mitchell knew about this sort of thing.
John Dean: Oh, no, no! Don't misunderstand me. I don't think that he knew the people. I think he knew that Liddy was out intelligence gathering. I don't think he knew that Liddy would use a fellow like McCord, (expletive removed), who worked for the Committee.
I can't believe that.
Pres. Nixon: Hunt?
John Dean: I don't think Mitchell knew about Hunt either.
Pres. Nixon: Well Mitchell thought, well, gee, and I hired this fellow Fred Fielding who works for me. Look, he said, Magruder said to me, "will you find me a lawyer?" I said,
John Dean: Magruder says - as he did in the trial - well, of course, my name has been dragged in as the guy who sent Liddy over there, which is an interesting thing. Well what happened they said is that Magruder asked - he wanted to hire my deputy over there asDeputy Counsel and I said, "No way. I can't give him up."
Pres. Nixon: Was Liddy your deputy?
John Dean: No, Liddy never worked for me.
Pres. Nixon: How the hell does Liddy stand up so well?
John Dean: He's a strange man, Mr. President.
Pres. Nixon: Strange or strong?
John Dean: Strange and strong. His loyalty is - I think it is just beyond the pale. Nothing -
Pres. Nixon: He hates the other side too, doesn't he?
John Dean: Oh, absolutely! He is strong. He really is.
Pres. Nixon: Is it too late to go the hang-out road?
John Dean: Yes, I think it is. The hang out road -
Pres. Nixon: The hang-out road (inaudible).
John Dean: It was kicked around Bob and I and -
Pres. Nixon: Ehrlichman always felt it should be hang-out.
John Dean: Well, I think I convinced him why he would not want to hang-out either. There is a certain domino situation here. If some things start going, a lot of other things are going to start going, and there can be a lot of problems if everything starts falling. So there are dangers, Mr. President. I would be less than candid if I didn't tell you there are. There is a reason for not everyone going up and testifying.
John Dean: They would never believe it. The two things they are working on are Watergate
Pres. Nixon: Who is "they?"
John Dean: The press, (inaudible), the intellectuals, -
Pres. Nixon: The Packwoods?
John Dean: Right - They would never buy it as far as one White House involvement in Watergate which I think there is just none for that incident which occurred at the Democratic National Headquarters. People here we just did not know that was going to be done. I think there are some people who saw the fruits of it, but that is another story. I am talking about the criminal conspiracy to go in there. The other thing is that the Segretti thing. You hang that out, and they wouldn't believe that. They wouldn't believe that Chapin acted on his own to put his old friend Segretti to be a Dick Tuck on somebody else's campaign. They would have to paint it into something more sinister, more involved, part of a general plan.
Pres. Nixon: No, I tell you this it is the last gasp of our hardest opponents. They've just got to have something to squeal about it.
John Dean: It is the only thing they have to squeal -
Pres. Nixon: (Unintelligible) They are going to lie around and squeal. They are having a hard time now. They got the hell kicked out of them in the election. There is not a Watergate around in this town, not so much our opponents, even the media, but the basic thing is the establishment. The establishment is dying, and so they've got to show that despite the success we have had in foreign policy and in the election, they've got to show that it is just wrong just because of this. They are trying to use this as the whole thing.
John Dean: Well, that is why I keep coming back to this fellow Sullivan. It could change the picture.
Pres. Nixon: How could it change though? Saying here is another -
John Dean: Saying here is another and it happens to be Democrats. You know, I know I just -
Pres. Nixon: If he would get Kennedy into it, too, I would be a little bit more pleased.
John Dean: Let me tell you something that lurks at the bottom of this whole thing. If, in going after Segretti, they go after Kalmbach's bank records, you will recall sometime back - perhaps you did not know about this - I apologize. That right after Chappaquidick somebody was put up there to start observing and within six hours he was there for every second of Chappaquidick for a year, and for almost two years he worked for Jack Caulfield.
Pres. Nixon: Oh, I have heard of Caulfield.
John Dean: He worked for Caulfield when Caulfield worked for John, and then when I came over here I inherited Caulfield and this guy was still on this same thing. If they get to those bank records between the start of July of 1969 through June of 1971, they say what are these about? Who is this fellow up in New York that you paid? There comes Chappaquidick with a vengeance. This guy is a twenty year detective on the New York City Police Department.
Pres. Nixon: In other words we -
John Dean: He is ready to disprove and show that
Pres. Nixon: (unintelligible)
John Dean: If they get to it - that is going to come out and this whole thing can turn around on that. If Kennedy knew the bear trap he was walking into
Pres. Nixon: How do we know - why don't we get it out anyway?
John Dean: Well, we have sort of saved it.
Pres. Nixon: Does he have any records? Are they any good?
John Dean: He is probably the most knowledgeable man in the country. I think he ran up against walls and they closed the records down. There are things he can't get, but he can ask all of the questions and get many of the answers as a 20 year detective, but we don't want to surface him right now. But if he is ever surfaced, this is what they will get.
Pres. Nixon: How will Kalmbach explain that he hired this guy to do the job on Chappaquidick? Out of what type of funds?
John Dean: He had money left over from the pre-convention -
Pres. Nixon: Are they going to investigate those funds too?
John Dean: They are funds that are quite legal. There is nothing illegal about those funds. Regardless of what may happen, what may occur, they may stumble into this in going back to, say 1971, in Kalmbach's bank records. They have already asked for a lot of his bank records in connection with Segretti, as to how he paid Segretti.
Pres. Nixon: Are they going to go back as far as Chappaquidick?
John Dean: Well this fellow worked in 1971 on this. He was up there. He has talked to everybody in that town. He is the one who has caused a lot of embarrassment for Kennedy already by saying he went up there as a newspaperman, by saying; "Why aren't you checking this? Why aren't you looking there?" Calling the press people's attention to things. Gosh, the guy did a masterful job. I have never had the full report....Sullivan - if I have one liability in Sullivan here, it is his knowledge of the earlier (unintelligible) that occurred here.
Pres. Nixon: That we did?
John Dean: That we did.
Pres. Nixon: Well, why don't you just tell him - he could say, "I did no political work at all. My work in the Nixon Administration was solely in the national security." And that is thoroughly true!
- 3/17/1973 Oval Office meeting between Dean and Nixon (1:25pm - 2:10pm)
Pres. Nixon: In connection with Hunt?
John Dean: In connection with Hunt and Liddy both.
Pres. Nixon: They worked for him?
John Dean: They - these fellows had to be some idiots as we've learned after the fact. They went out and went into Dr. Ellsberg's doctor's office and they had, they were geared up with all this CIA equipment - cameras and the like. Well they turned the stuff back in to the CIA some point in time and left film in the camera. CIA has not put this together, and they don't know what it all means right now. But it wouldn't take a very sharp investigator very long because you've got pictures in the CIA files that they had to turn over to (unintelligible).
Pres. Nixon: What in the world - what in the name of God was Ehrlichman having something (unintelligible) in the Ellsberg (unintelligible)?
John Dean: They were trying to - this was a part of an operation that - in connection with the Pentagon papers. They were - the whole thing - they wanted to get Ellsberg's psychiatric records for some reason. I don't know.
Pres. Nixon: This is the first I ever heard of this. I, I (unintelligible) care about Ellsberg was not our problem.
John Dean: That's right.
Pres. Nixon: (Expletive deleted)
John Dean: In the CIA's files which they - which the Committee is asking for - the material they turned over to the Department of Justice....There are all the materials relating to Hunt. In there are these pictures which the CIA developed and they've got Gordon Liddy standing proud as punch outside this doctor's office with his name on it. And (unintelligible) this material it's not going to take very long for an investigator to go back and say, well, why would this - somebody be at the doctor's office and they'd find out that there was a breakin at the doctor's office and then you'd find Liddy on the staff and then you'd start working it back. I don't think they'll ever reach that point.
- 3/19/1973 James McCord wrote Judge John Sirica, telling him that perjury had been committed at the trial because of pressure on the defendants to remain silent, and that high administration officials were involved in a cover-up.
- 3/20/1973 Phone conversation between Nixon and Dean (7:29pm - 7:43pm)
Pres. Nixon: That's not true.
John Dean: And the other fellow they are calling is a fellow by the name if Thomas Lombard who is trying to establish a link between Dean on that one. Lombard did volunteer work for me in my office and did volunteer work for Liddy and at one time he saw Liddy in my office. Big deal. It was purely campaign, you know....The Hoback girl should be broken down. She should come out in tears as a result of the fact that she is virtually lying about one thing and our people will be on the
Pres. Nixon: You mean - to our people know what to ask her?
John Dean: Yes they do. Yes they do.
Pres. Nixon: Uh, huh. Why is she doing it? Do we know?
John Dean: Disgruntled. She has been fairly disgruntled all along. She is a Democrat that worked over there in the Finance Committee. She professes a personal loyalty to Maury Stans but that is about the extent of it, any, of her loyalty.
Pres. Nixon: They didn't bite the bullet with regard to subpoenaing you?
John Dean: No. I don't think there is any chance they are going to do that.
Pres. Nixon: You've got to have something where it doesn't appear that I am doing this in, you know, just in a - saying to hell with the Congress and to hell with the people, we are not going to tell you anything because of Executive Privilege. That, they don't understand. But if you say, "No, we are willing to cooperate," and you've made a complete statement, but make it very incomplete. See, that is what I mean. I don't want a, too much in chapter and verse as you did in your letter, I just want just a general -
John Dean: An all around statement.
Pres. Nixon: That's right. Try just something general. Like "I have checked into this matter; I can categorically, based on my investigation, the following: Haldeman is not involved in this, that and the other thing. Mr. Colson did not do this; Mr. so and so did not do this. Mr. Blank did not do this." Right down the line, taking the most glaring things. If there are any further questions, please let me know. See?
- 3/21/1973 Oval Office meeting between Nixon, Dean Haldeman (10:12am-11:55am) Chuck Colson told Barbara Walters 7/1974 that this was the day he had recommended hiring J. Lee Rankin as special Watergate counsel.
- 3/21/1973 Hunt's lawyer, William O. Bittman, gave him an envelope containing $75,000. Bittman testified 7/9/1974 that he thought it was only for legal fees, not to buy Hunt's silence.
- 3/21/1973 Crucial meeting between John Dean and President Nixon. Discussion focuses on ways to insure the continued silence of the Watergate burglars and those involved in the cover-up. "Hush-money" and offers of executive clemency discussed. Later this day, Howard Hunt's lawyer receives $75,000.00.
John Dean: John caught me on the way out and asked me about why Gray was holding back on information, if that was under instructions from us. And it was and it wasn't. It was instructions proposed by the Attorney General, consistent with your press conference statement that no further raw data was to be turned over to the full committee. And that was the extent of it. And then Gray, himself, who reached the conclusion that no more information should be turned over, that he had turned over enough. So this again is Pat Gray making decisions on his own on how to handle his hearings. He has been totally - (unintelligible) to take any guidance, any instruction. We don't know what he is going to do. He is not going to talk about it. He won't review it, and I don't think he does it to harm you in any way, sir.
Pres. Nixon: No, he is just quite stubborn and also he isn't very smart. You know -
John Dean: He is bullheaded.
Pres. Nixon: He is smart in his own way but he's got that typical (expletive deleted) this is right and I am going to do it.
John Dean: That's why he thinks he is going to be confirmed. He is being his own man. He is being forthright and honest. He feels he has turned over too much and so it is conscious decision that he is harming the Bureau by doing this and so he is not going to.
Pres. Nixon: We have to get the boys off the line that this is because the White House told him to do this and everything. And also, as I told Ehrlichman, I don't see why our little boys can't make something out of the fact that (expletive deleted) this is the only responsible position that could possibly be made. The FBI cannot turn over raw files. Has anybody made that point? I have tried to several times.
John Dean: Sam Ervin has made that point himself. In fact, in reading the transcript of Gray's hearings, Ervin tried to hold Gray back from doing what he was doing at the time he did it. I thought it was very unwise. I don't think that anyone is criticizing your position on it
Pres. Nixon: Let's make a point that raw files, I mean that point should be made that we are standing for the rights of innocent individuals. The American Civil Liberties Union is against it. We are against it. Hoover had the tradition, and it will continue to be the tradition. All files are confidential. See if we can't get someone inspired to put that out. Let them see what is in one.
John Dean: The reason that I thought we ought to talk this morning is because in our conversations, I have the impression that you don't know everything I know and it makes it very difficult for you to make judgments that only you can make on some of these things and I thought that -
Pres. Nixon: In other words, I have to know why you feel that we shouldn't unravel something?
John Dean: Let me give you my overall first.
Pres. Nixon: In other words, your judgment as to where it stands, and where we will go.
John Dean: I think that there is no doubt about the seriousness of the problem we've got. We have a cancer within, close to the Presidency, that is growing. It is growing daily. It's compounded, growing geometrically now, because it compounds itself. That will be clear if I, you know, explain some of the details of why it is. Basically, it is because (1) we are being blackmailed; (2) People are going to start perjuring themselves very quickly that have not had to perjure themselves to protect other people in the line. And there is no assurance
Pres. Nixon: That that won't bust?
John Dean: That that won't bust. So let me give you the sort of basic facts, talking first about the Watergate; and then about Segretti: and then about some of the peripheral items that have come up. First of all on the Watergate: how did it all start, where did it start? O.K! It started with an instruction to me from Bob Haldeman to see if we couldn't set up a perfectly legitimate campaign intelligence operation over at the Re-Election Committee. Not being in this business, I turned to somebody who had been in this business, Jack Caulfield. I don't remember whether you remember Jack or not. He was your original bodyguard before they had the candidate protection, an old city policeman.
Pres. Nixon: Yes, I know him.
John Dean: Jack worked for John and then was transferred to my office. I said Jack come up with a plan that, you know - a normal infiltration, buying information from secretaries and all that sort of thing. He did, he put together a plan. It was kicked around. I went to Ehrlichman with it. I went to Mitchell with it, and the consensus was that Caulfield was not the man to do this. In retrospect, that might have been a bad call because he is an incredibly cautious person and wouldn't have put the situation where it is today. After rejecting that, they said we still need something so I was told to look around for someone who could go over to 1701 and do this. That is when I came up with Gordon Liddy. They needed a lawyer. Gordon had an intelligence background from his FBI service. I was aware of the fact that he had done some extremely sensitive things for the White House while he had been at the White House and he had apparently done them well. Going out into Ellsberg's doctor's office
Pres. Nixon: Oh, yeah.
John Dean: And things like this. He worked with leaks. He tracked these things down. So the report that I got from Krogh was that he was a hell of a good man and not only that a good lawyer and could set up a proper operation. So we talked to Liddy. He was interested in doing it. I took Liddy over to meet Mitchell. Mitchell thought highly of him because Mitchell was partly involved in his coming to the White House to work for Krogh. Liddy had been at Treasury before that. Then Liddy was told to put together his plan, you know, how he would run an intelligence operation. This was after he was hired over there at the Committee. Magruder called me in January and said I would like to have you come over and see Liddy's plan.
Pres. Nixon: January of '72?
John Dean: January of '72.
John Dean: "You come over to Mitchell's office and sit in a meeting where Liddy is going to lay his plan out." I said I don't really know if I am the man, but if you want me there I will be happy to. So I came over and Liddy laid out a million dollar plan that was the most incredible thing I have ever laid my eyes on: all in codes, and involved black bag operations, kidnapping, providing prostitutes to weaken the opposition, bugging, mugging teams. It was just an incredible thing.
Pres. Nixon: Tell me this: Did Mitchell go along -?
John Dean: No, no, not at all, Mitchell just sat there puffing and laughing. I could tell from - after Liddy left the office I said that is the most incredible thing I have ever seen. He said I agree. And so Liddy was told to go back to the drawing board and come up with something realistic. So there was a second meeting. They asked me to come over to that. I came into the tail end of the meeting. I wasn't there for the first part. I don't know how long the meeting lasted. At this point, they were discussing again bugging, kidnapping and the like. At this point I said right in front of everybody, very clearly, I said, "These are not the sort of things (1) that are ever to be discussed in the office of the Attorney General of the United States - that was where he still was - and I am personally incensed." And I am trying to get Mitchell off the hook. He is a nice person and doesn't like to have to say no when he is talking with people he is going to have to work with.
Pres. Nixon: That's right.
John Dean: So I let it be known. I said "You all pack that stuff up and get it the hell out of here. You just can't talk this way in this office and you should re-examine your whole thinking."
Pres. Nixon: Who all was present?
John Dean: It was Magruder, Mitchell, Liddy and myself. I came back right after the meeting and told Bob, "Bob, we have a growing disaster on our hands if they are thinking this way," and I said, "The White House has got to stay out of this and I, frankly, am not going to be involved in it." He said, "I agree John." I thought at that point that the thing was turned off. That is the last I heard of it and I thought it was turned off because it was an absurd proposal....Liddy sat over there and tried to come up with another plan that he could sell. (1) They were talking to him, telling him that he was putting too much money in it. I don't think they were discounting the illegal points. Jeb is not a lawyer. He did not know whether this is the way the game was played and what it was all about. They came up, apparently, with another plan, but they couldn't get it approved by anybody over there. So Liddy and Hunt apparently came to see Chuck Colson, and Chuck Colson picked up the telephone and called Magruder and said, "You all either fish or cut bait. This is absurd to have these guys over there and not using them. If you are not going to use them, I may use them." Things of this nature.
Pres. Nixon: When was this?
John Dean: This was apparently in February of '72.
Pres. Nixon: Did Colson know what they were talking about?
John Dean: I can only assume, because of his close relationship - with Hunt, that he had a damn good idea what they were talking about, a damn good idea. He would probably deny it today and probably get away with denying it. But I still - unless Hunt blows on him -
Pres. Nixon: But then Hunt isn't enough. It takes two doesn't it?
John Dean: Probably. Probably. But Liddy was there also and if Liddy were to blow -
Pres. Nixon: Then you have a problem - I was saying as to the criminal liability in the White House.
John Dean: I will go back over that, and take out any of the soft spots.
Pres. Nixon: Colson, you think was the person who pushed?
John Dean: I think he helped to get the thing off the dime....I think Bob was assuming, that they had something that was proper over there, some intelligence gathering operation that Liddy was operating. And through Strachan, who was his tickler, he started pushing them to get some information and they - Magruder - took that as a signal to probably go to Mitchell and to say, "They are pushing us like crazy for this from the White House. And so Mitchell probably puffed on his pipe and said, "Go ahead," and never really reflected on what it was all about. So they had some plan that obviously had, I gather, different targets they were going to go after. They were going to infiltrate, and bug, and do all this sort of thing to a lot of these targets. This is knowledge I have after the fact. Apparently after they had initially broken in and bugged the DNC they were getting information. The information was coming over here to Strachan and some of it was given to Haldeman, there is no doubt about it.
John Dean: Strachan was aware of receiving information, reporting to Bob. At one point Bob even gave instructions to change their capabilities from Muskie to McGovern, and passed this back through Strachan to Magruder and apparently to Liddy. And Liddy was starting to make arrangements to go in and bug the McGovern operation.
Pres. Nixon: They had never bugged Muskie, though, did they?
John Dean: No, they hadn't, but they had infiltrated it by a secretary.
Pres. Nixon: By a secretary?
John Dean: By a secretary and a chauffeur....The next point in time that I became aware of anything was on June 17th when I got the word that there had been this break in at the DNC and somebody from our Committee had been caught in the DNC. And I said, "Oh, (expletive deleted)." You know, eventually putting the pieces together -
Pres. Nixon: You knew what it was.
John Dean: I knew who it was. So I called Liddy on Monday morning and said, "First, Gordon, I want to know whether anybody in the White House was involved in this." And he said, "No, they weren't." I said, "Well I want to know how in (adjective deleted) name this happened." He said, "Well, I was pushed without mercy by Magruder to get in there and to get more information. That the information was not satisfactory. That Magruder said, 'The White House is not happy with what we are getting.'"
Pres. Nixon: The White House?
John Dean: The White House. Yeah!
Pres. Nixon: Who do you think was pushing him?
John Dean: Well, I think it was probably Strachan thinking that Bob wanted things, because I have seen that happen on other occasions where things have said to have been of very prime importance when they really weren't.
Pres. Nixon: Why at that point in time I wonder? I am just trying to think. We had just finished the Moscow trip. The Democrats had just nominated McGovern. I mean, (expletive deleted), what in the hell were these people doing? I can see their doing it earlier. I can see the pressures, but I don't see why all the pressure was on then.
John Dean: I don't know, other than the fact that they might have been looking for information about the conventions.
Pres. Nixon: That's right.
John Dean: Because, I understand that after the fact that there was a plan to bug Larry O'Brien's suite down in Florida. So Liddy told me that this is what had happened and this is why it had happened.
Pres. Nixon: Where did he learn that there were plans to bug Larry O'Brien's suite?
John Dean: From Magruder, long after the fact.
Pres. Nixon: Magruder is (unintelligible)
John Dean: Yeah. Magruder is totally knowledgeable on the whole thing.
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
John Dean: Alright now, we have gone through the trial. I don't know if Mitchell has perjured himself in the Grand Jury or not.
Pres. Nixon: Who?
John Dean: Mitchell. I don't know how much knowledge he actually had. I know that Magruder has perjured himself in the Grand Jury. I know that Porter has perjured himself in the Grand Jury.
Pres. Nixon: Who is Porter? (unintelligible)
John Dean: He is one of Magruder's deputies. They set up this scenario which they ran by me. They said, "How about this?" I said, "I don't know. If this is what you are - doing to hang on, fine."
Pres. Nixon: What did they say in the Grand Jury?
John Dean: They said, as they said before the trial in the Grand Jury, that Liddy had come over as Counsel and we knew he had these capacities to do legitimate intelligence. We had no idea what he was doing. He was given an authorization of $250,000 to collect information, because our surrogates were out on the road. They had no protection, and we had information that there were going to be demonstrations against them, and that we had to have a plan as to what liabilities they were going to be confronted with and Liddy was charged with doing this. We had no knowledge that he was going to bug the DNC.
Pres. Nixon: The point is, that is not true?
John Dean: That's right.
Pres. Nixon: Magruder did know it was going to take place?
John Dean: Magruder gave the instructions to be back in the DNC.
Pres. Nixon: He did?
John Dean: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: You know that?
John Dean: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: I see. O.K.
John Dean: I honestly believe that no one over here knew that. I know that as God is my maker, I had no knowledge that they were going to do this.
Pres. Nixon: Mitchell has given a sworn statement, hasn't he?
John Dean: Yes, Sir.
Pres. Nixon: To the Jury?
John Dean: To the Grand Jury. -
Pres. Nixon: You mean the Goldberg arrangement?
John Dean: We had an arrangement whereby he went down with several of them, because of the heat of this thing and the implications on the election, we made an arrangement where they could quietly go into the Department of Justice and have one of the assistant U.S. Attorneys take their testimony and then read it before the Grand Jury.
Pres. Nixon: I thought Mitchell went.
John Dean: That's right, Mitchell was actually called before the Grand Jury. The Grand Jury would not settle for less, because the jurors wanted him.
Pres. Nixon: And he went?
John Dean: And he went.
Pres. Nixon: Good!
John Dean: I don't know what he said. I have never seen a transcript of the Grand Jury. Now what has happened post June 17? I was under pretty clear instructions not to investigate this, but this could have been disastrous on the electorate if all hell had broken loose. I worked on a theory of containment....There is no doubt that I was totally aware of what the Bureau was doing at all times. I was totally aware of what the Grand Jury was doing. I knew what witnesses were going to be called. I knew what they were asked, and I had to.
Pres. Nixon: Why did Petersen play the game so straight with us?
John Dean: Because Petersen is a soldier. He kept me informed. He told me when we had problems, where we had problems and the like. He believes in you and he believes in this Administration. This Administration has made him. I don't think he has done anything improper, but he did make sure that the investigation was narrowed down to the very, very fine criminal thing which was a break for us. There is no doubt about it....Colson said, "I have no knowledge of this" to the FBI. Strachan said, "I have no knowledge." They didn't ask Strachan any questions about Watergate. They asked him about Segretti. They said, "what is your connection with Liddy?" Strachan just said, "Well, I met him over there." They never really pressed him. Strachan appeared, as a result of some coaching, to be the dumbest paper pusher in the bowels of the White House.
Pres. Nixon: I understand.
John Dean: Alright. Now post June 17th: These guys immediately - It is very interesting. (Dean sort of chuckled) Liddy, for example, on the Friday before - I guess it was on the 15th, no, the 16th of June - had been in Henry Petersen's office with another member of my staff on campaign compliance problems. After the incident, he ran Kleindienst down at Burning Tree Country Club and told him "you've got to get my men out of jail." Kleindienst said, "You get the hell out of here, kid. Whatever you have to say, just say to somebody else. Don't bother me." But this has never come up. Liddy said if they all got counsel instantly and said we will ride this thing out. Alright, then they started making demands. "We have to have attorneys fees. We don't have any money ourselves, and you are asking us to take this through the election." Alright, so arrangements were made through Mitchell, initiating it. And I was present in discussions where these guys had to be taken care of. The attorneys fees had to be done. Kalmbach was brought in. Kalmbach raised some cash.
Pres. Nixon: They put that under the cover of a Cuban Committee, I suppose?
John Dean: Well, they had a Cuban Committee and they had - some of it was given to Hunt's lawyer, who in turn passed it out. You know, when Hunt's wife was flying to Chicago with $10,000 she was actually, I understand after the fact now, was going to pass that money to one of the Cubans - to meet him in Chicago and pass it to somebody there.
Pres. Nixon: (unintelligible) but I would certainly keep that cover for whatever it is worth.
John Dean: Well, they ran out of money over there. Bob bad $350,000 in a safe over here that was really set aside for polling purposes. And there was no other source of money, so they came over and said you all have got to give us some money. I had to go to Bob and say, "Bob, they need some money over there." He said "What for." So I had to tell him what it was for because he wasn't just about to send money over there willy-nilly. And John was involved in those discussions. And then we decided there was no price too high to pay to let this thing blow up in front of the election.
Pres. Nixon: I think we should be able to handle that issue pretty well. May be some lawsuits.
John Dean: I think we can too. Here is what is happening right now. What sort of brings matters to the (unintelligible). One, this is going to be a continual blackmail operation by Hunt and Liddy and the Cubans. No doubt about it. And McCord, who is another one involved. McCord has asked for nothing. McCord did ask to meet with somebody, with Jack Caulfield who is his old friend who had written him hired over there. And when Caulfield had him hired, he was a perfectly legitimate security man. And he wanted to talk about commutation, and things like that. And as you know Colson has talked indirectly to Hunt about commutation. All of these things are bad, in that they are problems, they are promises, they are commitments. They are the very sort of thing that the Senate is going to be looking most for. I don't think they can find them, frankly.
Pres. Nixon: Pretty hard.
John Dean: Pretty hard. Damn hard. It's all cash.
Pres. Nixon: Pretty hard I mean as far as the witnesses are concerned.
John Dean: Alright, now, the blackmail is continuing. Hunt called one of the lawyers from the Re-Election Committee on last Friday to leave it with him over the weekend. The guy came in to see me to give a message directly to me. From Hunt to me.
Pres. Nixon: Is Hunt out on bail?
John Dean: Hunt is on bail. Correct. Hunt now is demanding another $72,000 for his own personal expenses; another $50,000 to pay attorneys fees; $120,000. Some (1) he wanted it as of the close of business yesterday. He said, "I am going to be sentenced on Friday, and I've got to get my financial affairs in order." I told this fellow O'Brien, "If you want money, you came to the wrong man, fellow. I am not involved in the money. I don't know a thing about it. I can't help you. You better scramble about elsewhere." O'Brien is a ball player. He carried tremendous water for us.
Pres. Nixon: He isn't Hunt's lawyer?
John Dean: No he is our lawyer at the Re-Election Committee.
Pres. Nixon: I see.
John Dean: So he is safe. There is no problem there. So it raises the whole question. Hunt has now made a direct threat against Ehrlichman. As a result of this, this is his blackmail. He says, "I will bring John Ehrlichman down to his knees and put him in jail. I have done enough seamy things for he and Krogh, they'll never survive it."
Pres. Nixon: Was he talking about Ellsberg?
John Dean: Ellsberg, and apparently some other things. I don't know the full extent of it.
Pres. Nixon: I don't know about anything else.
John Dean: I don't know either, and I hate to learn some of these things. So that is that situation. Now, where are at the soft points? How many people know about this? Well, let me go one step further in this whole thing. The Cubans that were used in the Watergate were also the same Cubans that Hunt and Liddy used for this California Ellsberg thing, for the break in out there. So they are aware of that. How high their knowledge is, is something else. Hunt and Liddy, of course, are totally aware of it, of the fact that it is right out of the White House.
Pres. Nixon: I don't know what the hell we did that for!
John Dean: I don't know either.
Pres. Nixon: What in the (expletive deleted) caused this? (unintelligible)
John Dean: Mr. President, there have been a couple of things around here that I have gotten wind of. At one time there was a desire to do a second story job on the Brookings Institute where they had the Pentagon papers. Now I flew to California because I was told that John had instructed it and he said, "I really hadn't. It is a misimpression, but for (expletive deleted), turn it off." So I did. I came back and turned it off. The risk is minimal and the pain is fantastic. It is something with a (unintelligible) risk and no gain. It is just not worth it. But - who knows about all this now? You've got the Cubans' lawyer, a man by the name of Rothblatt, who is a no good, publicity seeking (characterization deleted), to be very frank with you. He has had to be pruned down and tuned off. He was canned by his own people because they didn't trust him. He didn't want them to plead guilty. He wants to represent them before the Senate. So F. Lee Bailey, who was a partner of one of the men representing McCord, got in and cooled Rothblatt down. So that means that F. Lee Bailey has knowledge. Hunt's lawyer, a man by the name of Bittmann, who is an excellent criminal lawyer from the Democratic era of Bobby Kennedy, he's got knowledge....Some people's wives know. Mrs. Hunt was the savviest woman in the world. She had the whole picture together.
Pres. Nixon: Did she?
John Dean: Yes. Apparently, she was the pillar of strength in that family before the death...So that is it. That is the extent of the knowledge. So where are the soft spots on this? Well, first of all, there is the problem of the continued blackmail which will not only go on now, but it will go on while these people are in prison, and it will compound the obstruction of justice situation. It will cost money. It is dangerous. People around here are not pros at this sort of thing. This is the sort of thing Mafia people can do: washing money, getting clean money, and things like that. We just don't know about those things, because we are not criminals and not used to dealing in that business.
Pres. Nixon: That's right.
John Dean: It is a tough thing to know how to do.
Pres. Nixon: Maybe it takes a gang to do that....How much money do you need?
John Dean: I would say these people are going to cost a million dollars over the next two years.
Pres. Nixon: We could get that. On the money, if you need the money you could get that. You could get a million dollars. You could get it in cash. I know where it could be gotten. It is not easy, but it could be done. But the question is who the hell would handle it? Any ideas on that?
John Dean: That's right. Well, I think that is something that Mitchell ought to be charged with.
Pres. Nixon: I would think so too.
John Dean: And get some pros to help him.
Pres. Nixon: What do you think? You don't need a million right away, but you need a million? Is that right?
John Dean: That is right.
Pres. Nixon: You need it in cash don't you? I am just thinking out loud here for a moment. Would you put that through the Cuban Committee:
John Dean: No.
Pres. Nixon: It is going to be checks, cash money, etc. How if that ever comes out, are you going to handle it?
John Dean: When I say this is a growing cancer, I say it for reasons like this. Bud Krogh, in his testimony before the Grand Jury, was forced to perjure himself. He is haunted by it. Bud said, "I have not had a pleasant day on my job." He said, "I told my wife all about this. The curtain may ring down one of these days, and I may have to face the music, which I am perfectly willing to do."
Pres. Nixon: What did he perjure himself on, John?
John Dean: Did he know the Cubans. He did.
Pres. Nixon: He said he didn't?
John Dean: That is right. They didn't press him hard.
Pres. Nixon: He might be able to - I am just trying to think. Perjury is an awful hard rap to prove. If he could just say that I - Well, go ahead.
John Dean: Well, so that is one perjury. Mitchell and Magruder are potential perjurers. There is always the possibility of any one of these individuals blowing. Hunt. Liddy. L...