Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Dr. Louis Jolyon West
#1
Fascists in White Coats: The CIA's Dr. Louis Jolyon West & the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Instititute
By Samuel Chavkin / April 24th,

[Image: westj.jpg?w=307&h=200&crop=1]

Photo: In 1972, Dr. Louis J. West (deceased), a ranking CIA psychiatrist (also a director of the "conservative" American Family Foundation and the False Memory Syndrome Foundation, an organization founded by pedophile apologists that marginalizes victims of ritual abuse and libels their advocates) with an obsessive interest in mind control, proposed experimenting on the brains of blacks and Latinos (to determine why these minorities are "prone to violence"), prisoners, women and children at a secret psychiatric unit at an abandoned Nike missile base in the mountains near UCLA. According to Dr. West in private correspondence, "comparative studies could be carried out there, in an isolated but convenient location, of experimental or model programs for the alteration of undesirable behavior." According to Dr. West, "The major known correlates of violence are sex (male), age (youthful), ethnicity (black), and urbanicity." Dr. West advocated a wide range of treatments, including chemical castration, psychosurgery and experimental drugs, incorporating computer databases to track "pre-delinquent" youth for "preemptive" treatment of black youth with no criminal record. The proposed Center for the Study and Prevention of Violence was shot down a year later by the California State Legislature after the racist agenda of Dr. West's barbaric psychiatric gulag was exposed by legitimate scientists and the press. AC
Dr. Louis Jolyon "Jolly" West
Dr. West was the chief architect of the Center for the Study and Reduction of Violence as Director of the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute. [From] Samuel Chavkin's work, "The Mind Stealers, Psychosurgery and Mind Control" [1] :

The center was to be set up to develop "behavioral indicators, profiles, biological correlates," to assist "school administrators, law enforcement personnel and governmental departments" to detect and control "overt expression of life-threatening behavior by identifiable individuals and groups."

In explaining the work of the center, Dr. West said that "in some patients, outbursts of uncontrolled rage have definitely been linked to abnormal electrical activity in deeply buried areas of the brain … For many years, neurologists have measured the electrical activity of the brain with electrodes attached to the scalp … Now by implanting tiny electrodes deep within the brain, electrical activity can be followed in areas that cannot be measured from the surface of the scalp."

The future looked even more promising, Dr. West declared. "It is even possible to record bioelectrical changes in the brains of freely moving subjects, through the use of remote monitoring techniques."

Many critics of Dr. West's proposal were up in arms over the fact that two junior high schools would provide much of the source material for the investigation into the genetic factors which predisposed violence, "one in a predominantly black ethnic area; the other in a predominantly Chicano area." One of most persistent critics of the center proposed by Dr. West was Dr. Isidore Ziferstein, associate clinical professor of psychiatry at the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute.

"We have a new situation on our hands," Dr. Ziferstein said. "Because of the intensifying economic decline it is inevitable that more and more jobless will go beyond the limits of the law to satisfy their needs. There are probably upwards of 30 percent of our population who are permanently impoverished … And once these 30 percent become convinced that the democratic process is not working for them, they become desperate and may resort to violent means. There is a rising radicalism in their midst and there is an uppitiness among the blacks and the Chicano prisoners which prison officials find intolerable.

"To subdue them, the authorities are using new methods. They're employing the psychiatric armamentarium and a new technological tool set what has come to be known as psycho-technology. Under the guise of therapeutic behavior modification they're applying anything from Anectine and other aversive drugs to psychosurgery."

For the first time in the history of the United States, criteria were to be set up for the labeling of individuals believed to be potentially criminal, even though they had committed no crime … those to be drawn upon for experimentation would be children, minority group members, and prisoners.

Dr. Ziferstein scorned the idea of "predicting" which people are potentially violent. "This means labeling persons as potential criminals, and involves a serious threat to civil liberties."

[1] Samuel Chavkin, "The Mind Stealers, Psychosurgery and Mind Control" (Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston, 1978).

http://www.randomcollection.info/mcf/new...n-west.htm
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Reply
#2
Dr. Louis Joyon "Jolly" West
Mind control programmer

See: False Memory Syndrome William Sargant

False Memory Syndrome Foundation Shortly after he had entered University of Wisconsin, he enlisted in the U.S. Army. In the Army Specialized Training Program he studied at the University of Iowa and the University of Minnesota School of Medicine from which he graduated in 1948. During his internship at the Payne Whitney Psychiatric Clinic he became familiar with Scientology, a cult he soon considered dangerous. Transferred to the U.S. Air Force Medical Corps and five years later he was appointed Chief of Psychiatry Service at the Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas. In this position he studied U.S. pilots and veterans after they had experienced torture and brainwashing. Chairman of the Department of Psychiatry at the University of California in Los Angeles and director of its Neuropsychiatric Institute.
Alleged persons he treated: Charles Manson, Sirhan-Sirhan, and later David Koresh. January 7, 1999, Reuters: "After examining [Jack] Ruby, the killer of President John F. Kennedy's assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, West concluded Ruby was suffering from 'major mental illness precipitated by the stress of (his) trial.''' Member of the White House Conference on Civil Rights in 1966. For many years he fought for the abolishment of the death penalty. Member of the Scientific Advisory Board of the FMS Foundation (as reported in the FMS Foundation Newsletter, Vol 4, No. 8, September 1, 1995). Dr. Colin Ross, who received many FOIA documents pertaining to US government mind control research: "Started off as a Top Secret official for the Air Force who interviewed the American pilots who came back from Korea having been captured and brainwashed by the Communist Chinese. Joly West and Margaret Singer worked for Air Force Intelligence talking to those downed American pilots who were actually DDNOS level Manchurian Candidates. Director the Cult Awareness Network... funded under MKULTRA to study the psychobiology of dissociation. He will probably go down in history as the only person to kill an elephant at Oklahoma City Zoo with LSD... Joly West was the expert witness in the trial for Patty Hearst. Who were the expert witnesses called to explain to the jury that Patty Hearst was actually a victim of coercive persuasion, mind control and brainwashing ... Joly West, Margaret Singer, Robert Lifton and Martin Orne. So what did Joly West have to do with Vacaville? Joly West was Head of the UCLA Violence Project which was approved by Ronald Reagan when he was Governor of California, then shut down by public protest. It was spearheaded by a number of people including some people who were very interested in the history of CIA military mind control, and have written books about it. Well the UCLA Violence Project you are going to see in subsequent slides... [Joly was a] CIA and military contractor, and an expert on multiple personality and other things... he actually mentions multiple personality in his CIA proposal. He tried to set up this UCLA violence centre that was going to be funded by Ronald Reagan and Frank Irvine from the Harvard brain electrode implant team was going to come. One of the things that was going to be done at the UCLA violence project and also at Vaccaville State Prison under a separate administrative structure, but which got shut down by public protest, was that they were going to implant brain electrodes in violent sex offenders..."

The establishment allowed CIA programmer Dr. Louis Joyon "Jolly" West to examine Jack Ruby in his jail cell. When Ruby refused to admit to insanity, West labelled him "paranoid and mentally ill" and Ruby was placed on pills, which were called "happy pills". Ruby believed he was being poisoned by the establishment.12: SCIENCE No. 12-EXTERNAL CONTROLS Deeper Insights into the Illuminati Formula

While Dr. West's curriculum vitae doesn't mention that he received Top Secret clearance from the CIA as the contractor on MKULTRA Subproject 43, CIA documents show that grants were given to Dr. West for studies entitled, "Psychophysiological Studies of Hypnosis and Suggestibility" and "Studies of Dissociative States." Further, "Dr. Lois Jolyon West was cleared at Top Secret for his work on MKULTRA.
West's numerous connections to the mind control network illustrate how the network is maintained---not through any central conspiracy, but by an interlocking network of academic relationships, grants, conferences, and military appointments. Some doctors in the network were not funded directly by the CIA or military, but their work was of direct relevance to mind control, non-lethal weapons development, creation of controlled dissociation and the building of Manchurian Candidates." Further, "Dr. West devoted four decades to study, writing and experimentation on dissociation, hypnosis, Communist mind control, hallucinogens, sensory deprivation, and methods of social influence; he concluded that the methods used by destructive cults result in the creation of new identities and dissociative states. The same methods, when applied to experimental subjects under BLUEBIRD, ARTICHOKE and MKULTRA, also resulted in the creation of amnesia, new identities and dissociated states. This was the Manchurian Candidate program."(Ross, 2000) Neurofeedback and Other Interventions for Patients with Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, and Dissociative Disorders by Susan Ford

So Louis West, who wanted to start this centre at UCLA, is on the board of FMSF and so is Martin Orne, a Harvard psychiatrist who has done contract work for the CIA in the past. And several other people who have those kinds of connections. They want to debunk this stuff right out of the box ... forget it. This is the kind of stuff they want to debunk. The CIA, Mind Control & Children: A Talk by John Rappoport

He was the British end of the most sinister program ever approved by the United States government: MK ULTRA, an intelligence agency effort designed to control all human behavior. .....He continued to use the massive doses of electroshock and drugs as part of his behavioral modification regime. He was, in 1970, also working closely with Louis Jolyon "Jolly" West, chairman of the Department of Psychiatry at the University of California in Los Angeles and director of its Neuropsychiatric Institute. .....Using his highly placed connections to the American drug industry, Sargant's arsenal of mind-altering drugs was unequalled in Britain. He was the first to treatdepending on the definition of "treatment"patients with Thorazine, Stelazine and Mellaril; anti-depressants like Elavil and Tofranil; anti-manics like lithium carbonate. He gave them in combinations......Sargant worked closely with Eli Lilly and Company, Hoffman-La Roche and Geigy. Other drug houses who regarded him with favor were Merck, Sharp and Dohme, Parke-Davis and Company, Smith Kline & French Laboratories, and Searle Laboratories.
.......At military bases in Britain, including one at Maresfield, near the south coast resort of Brighton, he conducted drug-related experiments on so-called "military volunteers." Other drug experiments were performed at Britain's most secret chemical and biological warfare establishment at Porton Down on Salisbury Plain. Again "volunteers" from military mental hospitals and from military prisons were used.
American intelligence sent observers to monitor these tests. Among them was one of the CIA's senior biochemists, Frank Olson, and Sidney Gottlieb, the overall head of the MK ULTRA program.
The three men became close friends. On each trip they visited Sargant's department at St. Thomas's to study patient records. They also shared with Sargant the latest mind-altering research being carried out at Fort Detrick, Maryland.
Ultimately, as we shall see, these connections led to the 1953 murder of Frank Olson on the orders of Sidney Gottlieb.
..........Once he agreed to work for Britain's intelligence services, money was no longer a problem and through U.S. drug companies he met like-minded psychiatrists.
..........Sargant died on August 27, 1988. With his death I was freed of my undertaking and slowly began to explore his background. It was not easy; he still had powerful friends in the World Psychiatric Association he had helped to establish, and the Royal College of Psychiatrists.
.........Injected with Largactil (Thorazine) and Seconal to keep her in a drugged sleep, Anne was placed in the Sleep Room. There she received doses of other drugs, Amitriptyline and Nardil.
.........There was another link between Sargant and Cameron: Leonard Rubenstein. He worked for MI5. At the Allan Memorial Institute he ran the "research and behavioral laboratory." There he created the tape loops. He had flown to London to show Sargant how they should be fashioned.
......I traced Rubenstein to his home in Hammersmith, London. I wanted him to explain how he, with no medical qualifications, had been allowed to work on seriously ill patients. When I started to question him, he hung up the phone. When I called back I was informed the line was no longer in service. I then discovered Rubenstein still has links to MI5. Inside the Sleep Room by Gordon Thomas

Shortly after he had entered University of Wisconsin, he enlisted in the U.S. Army. In the Army Specialized Training Program he studied at the University of Iowa and the University of Minnesota School of Medicine from which he graduated in 1948. During his internship at the Payne Whitney Psychiatric Clinic he became familiar with Scientology, a cult he soon considered dangerous. Transferred to the U.S. Air Force Medical Corps and five years later he was appointed Chief of Psychiatry Service at the Lackland Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas. In this position he studied U.S. pilots and veterans after they had experienced torture and brainwashing. Chairman of the Department of Psychiatry at the University of California in Los Angeles and director of its Neuropsychiatric Institute.
Alleged persons he treated: Charles Manson, Sirhan-Sirhan, and later David Koresh. January 7, 1999, Reuters: "After examining [Jack] Ruby, the killer of President John F. Kennedy's assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, West concluded Ruby was suffering from 'major mental illness precipitated by the stress of (his) trial.''' Member of the White House Conference on Civil Rights in 1966. For many years he fought for the abolishment of the death penalty. Member of the Scientific Advisory Board of the FMS Foundation (as reported in the FMS Foundation Newsletter, Vol 4, No. 8, September 1, 1995). Dr. Colin Ross, who received many FOIA documents pertaining to US government mind control research: "Started off as a Top Secret official for the Air Force who interviewed the American pilots who came back from Korea having been captured and brainwashed by the Communist Chinese. Joly West and Margaret Singer worked for Air Force Intelligence talking to those downed American pilots who were actually DDNOS level Manchurian Candidates. Director the Cult Awareness Network... funded under MKULTRA to study the psychobiology of dissociation. He will probably go down in history as the only person to kill an elephant at Oklahoma City Zoo with LSD... Joly West was the expert witness in the trial for Patty Hearst. Who were the expert witnesses called to explain to the jury that Patty Hearst was actually a victim of coercive persuasion, mind control and brainwashing ... Joly West, Margaret Singer, Robert Lifton and Martin Orne. So what did Joly West have to do with Vacaville? Joly West was Head of the UCLA Violence Project which was approved by Ronald Reagan when he was Governor of California, then shut down by public protest. It was spearheaded by a number of people including some people who were very interested in the history of CIA military mind control, and have written books about it. Well the UCLA Violence Project you are going to see in subsequent slides... [Joly was a] CIA and military contractor, and an expert on multiple personality and other things... he actually mentions multiple personality in his CIA proposal. He tried to set up this UCLA violence centre that was going to be funded by Ronald Reagan and Frank Irvine from the Harvard brain electrode implant team was going to come. One of the things that was going to be done at the UCLA violence project and also at Vaccaville State Prison under a separate administrative structure, but which got shut down by public protest, was that they were going to implant brain electrodes in violent sex offenders..." http://www.isgp.eu/dutroux/FMSF_freaks.htm
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Reply
#3
An article I just found from a newly-discovered blog:

http://ce399.typepad.com/weblog/louis-jo...olly-west/

Louis Jolyon "Jolly" West
11 June 2008

Mind Control and the Secret State


MinorityReport
Last September [1995] the CIA confirmed the existence of a 20-year, $20 million research program in "remote viewing," a subvariety of extrasensory perception. On October 29, a Jack Anderson column added more details, and Ted Koppel of ABC's Nightline weighed in with a program on November 28, by which time many newspapers and wire services had picked up the story. By December, a number of pundits began lamenting this additional evidence of the CIA's protean power to waste taxpayers' money.

Curiously, "remote viewing" was an old story, first reported by Anderson himself on 23 April 1984. Other Anderson columns of U.S. and Soviet interest in psychic research date back to 1981. Anderson's October 29 update reported that this project, which for a time was contracted out to the Stanford Research Institute (SRI), had been scaled back and put under Pentagon sponsorship, but nevertheless continued. Although the results of these experiments were reportedly mixed, the project retains its defenders in Congress: Sen. Claiborne Pell (D-RI) and Rep. Charlie Rose (D-NC). By 1995, Anderson didn't have an opinion on the merits of this research, but his 1984 column was supportive. On Nightline, former CIA director Robert Gates implied that pressure from members of Congress drove the CIA's original involvement.

Another of Ted Koppel's CIA guests, identified only as "Norm," was a technical advisor for CIA deputy director John McMahon and, until 1984, a coordinator for the SRI tests. "Norm" did mention the "eight-martini" results from some experiments; this was an in-house term for remote- viewing results so uncannily successful that observers needed eight martinis to recover. Still, the general impression from Koppel's show was dismissive. Only about "fifteen percent" of the experiments, panelists repeated, produced accurate results. Gates argued that such research, if undertaken at all, belongs in the academy.

Not for the first time, however, there's more to this story than Ted Koppel acknowledges.

Ingo Swann, who was involved in the SRI project from 1972-1988, is upset with the media's droll treatment of this revived story. Swann points out that the original motivation behind the "remote viewing" project was the fear that the Soviets were investing significant resources in applied psychic research, and might be making advances. At the time, at least, such a rationale would have been considered a plausible one to justify such a small expenditure of intelligence money. Nevertheless, almost all mention of this element of the story, which had figured prominently in the first wave of stories on "remote viewing," was dropped in 1995.

Furthermore, Swann claims, the "fifteen percent" figure, established early in the SRI project, represented the baseline accuracy for non-gifted and untrained persons. U.S. intelligence wanted sixty-five percent accuracy, and in the later stages of the project, Swann claims, "this accuracy level was achieved and often consistently exceeded." According to Swann, the key players in the project, and the documentation supporting the real story, remain under the strictest security constraints.

However this may be, Anderson's October 29 story reminds us that ESP is very much alive as an object of intelligence-community interest. In addition to "remote viewing" (seeing people, places, and events at a distance in space and time), another area of interest is the supposed power of "micro psycho-kinesis" or "Micro-PK" -- the ability to affect small objects, such as electrical systems, by using the mind. Micro-PK is one step away from outright telekinesis, and its supposed power has obvious attractions for the CIA. Imagine being able to erase a computer tape from a block away, or interfere with the avionics of a jet fighter, or detonate a warhead.

Based on the evidence that's on the public record, the dream of harnessing such power, or even of establishing its existence, may be somewhat optimistic.

But this fact hasn't stopped a strange band of specialists, many of whom have government connections, from staking out careers at the intersection of, so to speak, ESP, the Pentagon, and the CIA: where people interested in parapsychology work with those interested in weapons research and mind control. These would-be psi-spooks turn up occasionally on talk shows and at conferences on "nonlethal defense." Their ranks include companies like PSI-TECH in Albuquerque, founded by Maj. Edward A. Dames, and figures such as Col. John B. Alexander of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, who was featured in the February 1995 issue of Wired magazine. Dames and Alexander and a dozen more blend in with spookier types who shun publicity but who show up at UFO and New Age gatherings. One is ex-Naval Intelligence officer C.B. Scott Jones, a former aide to Sen. Claiborne Pell.

Once again, it's likely that Ted Koppel doesn't have the whole story. It's also likely that he wouldn't be cleared to report it if he did. Still, the piddling pool of dollars so far devoted to this research strongly implies that, if the figure is accurate, intelligence-funded parapsychological research has been a bust.

The uncounted millions the CIA has spent on mind control suggest just the opposite. As with "remote viewing," the attraction of a successful mind control program to the CIA is obvious, and has long been explicitly acknowledged as such. The "Manchurian Candidate" scenario -- in which a programmed zombie-assassin responds to a post-hypnotic trigger, performs the act, and does not remember it later -- is one ideal type of successful mind control. A reliable truth serum, long the object of a CIA quest, would be another. Both of these are operational uses of mind control, its so-called "second front."

This term comes from former CIA director Allen Dulles. In 1953, Dulles, speaking before a national meeting of Princeton alumni, distinguished two fronts in the then-current "battle for men's minds": a "first front" of mass indoctrination through censorship and propaganda, and a "second front" of individual "brainwashing" and "brain changing." Before an audience of fellow Ivy Leaguers, Dulles skipped the usual pieties about democracy. The same year, Dulles approved the CIA's notorious MKULTRA project, and exempted it from normal CIA financial controls.

The distinction between Dulles's "two fronts" eventually becomes difficult to sustain, like the distinction between, say, sociology and psychology. Still, this distinction can be useful in roughing out a spectrum of known mind-control techniques.

For example, one powerful tool for inducing ideological and behavioral change is social pressure in a controlled environment. The "brainwashing" employed during the Korean War did not involve the use drugs or hypnosis. The Chinese merely used the same techniques that they employed on the population at large, but with more intensity, greater control, and additional rewards and punishments such as food and sleep deprivation. Yet this frighteningly simple program was enough to crank up the brainwashing scare in the U.S. Some researchers now suspect that this hysterical episode had its origins in CIA-generated propaganda, designed to give the CIA the political space needed to research more sophisticated mind-control techniques.

Many undergraduates learn about the experiments conducted by Solomon Asch in the 1950s, which demonstrated that expressed opinions can be easily manipulated by social pressure, even in obvious cases, such as whether Line A is longer than Line B on a particular card. And Stanley Milgram showed that many unwitting research subjects would administer a series of escalating electric shocks to another, even to the point of an apparent heart attack, simply because a white-coated lab assistant asked them to continue. Milgram's research suggests that a "Manchurian Candidate" already exists in many of us, and that all that's required to bring him out may be a bit of propaganda. The historical evidence for blind human obedience that could be cited here is very familiar, and very depressing.

Still, there's evidence that Pentagon planners are uneasy about potential unruliness among the mass populations Dulles identified as mind control's "first front." Princeton alumni may perhaps follow and accept arguments that U.S. interests are at stake in Bosnia, but their sons are unlikely to be on the scene defending those supposed interests. The urban or Appalachian infantryman, and the family he comes from, may have other ideas.

Elite unease on this point may lie behind Pentagon enthusiasm for the new wrinkle in military force that goes by the name "nonlethal" or "less-than-lethal." Its very claim to embody a "humanitarian" form of warfare is a weapon in Dulles's "battle for men's minds."

Nonlethal technology becomes important in a discussion of mind control, as it involves something very close to it, in a form which might be used to control large populations. The propaganda aspect of "humanitarian warfare" is merely a sideshow; it's the technology itself that enlists the enthusiasm of Pentagon planners and law enforcement officials. Much of this "friendly force" technology involves electromagnetic fields and directed-energy radiation, and ultrasound or infrasound weapons -- the same technology that's currently of interest in brain-stimulation and mind-control research.

A partial list of aggressive promoters of this new technology includes Oak Ridge National Lab, Sandia National Laboratories, Science Applications International Corporation, MITRE Corporation, Lawrence Livermore National Lab, and Los Alamos National Laboratory. In the 1996 defense authorization bill, Congress earmarked $37.2 million to investigate nonlethal technologies. And this money looks like a mere ante in the game.

U.S. interest in this "less-than-lethal" technology dates back to the early 1960s, when the State Department became aware of low-energy microwave radiation directed at the U.S. embassy in Moscow. Under the name "Project Pandora," secret research into the Moscow radiation continued for ten years -- before embassy employees were informed that they were on the receiving end. Researchers initially assumed that the microwaves were designed to activate bugging devices. But when a large number of illnesses were reported at the embassy, a review of Soviet scientific journals revealed that the Soviets believed microwaves affected cell membranes and increased the excitability of nerve cells.

Officially, the incidence of illness at the embassy was ultimately blamed on the U.S. shortwave transmitting antenna on the embassy roof, which leaked energy and contributed to the unhealthy environment. Still, the secrecy surrounding Project Pandora encouraged further speculation within the U.S. intelligence community and elsewhere. For instance, researchers knew that a low-energy microwave beam could be modulated with an "audiogram," and actually convey a recognizable message into an irradiated brain. This led some U.S. spooks to suspect that the Soviets had been attempting to practice mind control on the embassy staff.

Such history brings us back to the situation of the restless public in our own jittery, pre-millennial U.S. Today, there seems to be a dramatic increase in the number of "wavies," those who feel they are being harassed by non-ionizing radiation such as radio or sound waves. Nevertheless, there is little evidence to support their belief that the secret state, despite its obvious interest in nonlethal technology, is supporting applied research on unsuspecting average citizens. Several alternative explanations suggest themselves.

First of all, the treatment of mental illness over the past few decades has changed dramatically -- from an institutional approach, to an out-patient, community-based system that relies on prescription drugs to control symptoms and behavior. Greater numbers of sufferers of paranoia, freed from institutions, are also free to exercise their First Amendment rights. Furthermore, the power to express oneself has been enhanced by technology -- everything from personal photocopying machines and desktop publishing, to fax machines and now the Internet. And on the Internet, almost everyone can find soulmates.

And "wavies" can make the case that they deserve the benefit of a doubt. Revelations about the Cold War secret state, from the CIA documents released in the 1970s to last year's Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments (which investigated ionizing radiation only), have produced a social environment in which it can seem difficult to rule out anyone's claim, no matter how paranoid-sounding. Finally, there is the modern problem of "pollution" in the broadest sense: from electromagnetic and chemical, and including simple noise. Human reactions to this pollution, which is a new phenomenon in the history of our species, apparently vary by orders of magnitude. Those who are ultra-sensitive may feel harassed, even if no one is intentionally targeting them.

To a disinterested observer, the claims of the "wavies" are perhaps no more bizarre than the claims of those who have experienced profound religious conversions. The point is not to belittle anyone's beliefs, but rather to establish that social factors often determine what we consider to be credible. For thousands of years societies have found it useful to allow sufficient space for religion. Only recently has social space opened up for the claims of "wavies." The increase in their numbers is thus predictable, irrespective of whether the secret state is behind their problems or not. (It isn't, in my opinion.)

This brings us to the "second front" mentioned by Allen Dulles in 1953: the technology of mind control applied on an individual level. Whereas non-ionizing radiation can be "broadcast" to large populations, techniques such as psychosurgery, implants, and electronic stimulation of the brain (ESB) are administered on a case-by-case basis. More exotic techniques, whose scientific status and potential effectiveness remain uncertain, include radio hypnotic intra-cerebral control and hypnotic dissolution of memory (RHIC-EDOM), and the use of induced "screen memory" and multiple personality disorder (MPD) for cover purposes.

The closest parallel to the "wavies" within this second front include those who feel that implants were forced on them, sometimes during childhood. Such beliefs obviously tap deep fears in the popular psyche. The season premier of "The X Files" showed FBI agent Scully discovering that someone had planted a microchip near the base of her skull. And accused Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh apparently claims that an implant was inserted under his skin, for tracking purposes, during the Gulf War.

Identification implants, which are passive devices that respond to an energy source and return an identification number, are similar to the bar codes at the checkout counter in a grocery store. Today's pet owners can have these devices implanted in their pets. But anyone who confuses this simple technology with a chip that tells them what to do is already in trouble. Such a person should consider turning off the television, logging off the Internet, and checking out a few books from the local library. ID technology is ominous for those concerned with surveillance and privacy, but it has little to do with mind control.

Granted, there are experimental "stimoceiver" implants that can stimulate the brain through electrodes. Mind-control enthusiast Jose Delgado became briefly famous when he stopped a charging bull in its tracks with such a device in 1964. Even allowing for electronic miniaturization since then, or for the fact that finely-tuned microwaves can achieve the same results as implanted electrodes, ESB would still seem to be impractical as a mind-control device. At best it appears to stimulate various emotions, and might be used for behavioral conditioning in a controlled environment. This is still quite crude as a control device. It would be simpler and more reliable to arrange a fatal accident.

The combination of surveillance technology and implanted aversion therapy conjures up the vision of a society of victim-robots, with monitors on every utility pole and computers administering the conditioning. But the necessary infrastructure would be frightfully expensive.

And no doubt unnecessary. Sufficient control over the flow of information in society can yield results very similar to those that could be achieved by mind-control implants installed in every individual. Thus the flaw in the reasoning of many researchers: the mind-control techniques that have them so worried are usually the most difficult techniques one can possibly imagine. For those who would seek total control, plain, old-fashioned information control -- leavened with a few fascist techniques -- will do nicely, thank you.

In 1973, former MKULTRA researcher Louis Jolyon "Jolly" West, from the Department of Psychiatry at UCLA, convinced California and federal officials to sponsor a Violence Center. Governor Ronald Reagan mentioned the proposed Center in glowing terms in a speech on January 11, and the federal Law Enforcement Assistance Administration (LEAA) approved a $750,000 grant. By this time the federal government, through LEAA, the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), the Bureau of Prisons, and the CIA, was operating or funding numerous behavior modification programs in prisons, schools, and hospitals. In response to protests from UCLA students and faculty, the LEAA announced that it would ban the use of its funds for "psychosurgery, medical research, behavior modification -- including aversion therapy -- and chemotherapy."

A year later Louis West was still hoping to obtain funds from NIMH, but by then it was too late for his proposal. Until the 1970s it was not unusual for mental health professionals to propose programs that would screen children for the purpose of early diagnosis and treatment of the potentially violent. But by the 1970s the trend was in the other direction, as some states enacted laws that made it more difficult to confine someone involuntarily as a mental patient. By the 1990s the shoe is securely on the other foot.

Twenty years ago it was fashionable for clinicians to blame urban unrest and similar phenomena on the behavior of individuals. Now, however, the individual can disclaim responsibility for his actions by blaming external agencies. Numerous persons have gone public with accusations of strange events during their childhood, suggesting that they were used as guinea pigs for mysterious men in white coats. Some of their evidence seems sufficiently solid to require further investigation, and more cases are emerging all the time.

On 15 March 1995, two patients of New Orleans therapist Valerie Wolf testified before the Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments. Although this was outside the purview of the Committee, they were permitted to testify because some of the names of CIA-connected researchers they mentioned were already familiar to the Committee. These two women remembered sessions when they were around eight years old that involved electric shocks, hypnosis, shots with needles, x-rays, sexual abuse, and even training in intelligence tradecraft. One case occurred from 1972-1976 and the other in 1958. This testimony was not covered by the media.

Although the recollections of the two women were spontaneous and did not involve regression therapy, there is also a cottage industry developing around memories of child abuse in general. For the most part these are not connected with government research, and perhaps many are the result of questionable techniques used by social workers, therapists, police and prosecutors to elicit testimony from children. Juries are becoming more skeptical of many of these cases. This issue has even assumed the dimensions of a religious crusade -- Christian fundamentalists worry about evil in the New Age movement, and are on the lookout for cases of "satanic ritual abuse" of children. Others believe the CIA has turned children into split-personality sex slaves for operational use.

In 1992 the False Memory Syndrome Foundation began in Philadelphia. This organization criticizes the practice of regression therapy when it's used to bring out memories of traumatic childhood experiences. FMSF considers these repressed memories of incest and sexual abuse to be objectively false, and devastating to family life in general. There's a growing split over this issue among psychology professionals. To confuse the situation further, FMSF has some on their Board of Advisors who may want to cover up their own work. One is Louis West, another is Martin Orne, one of the key MKULTRA researchers in hypnosis, and a third is Michael Persinger, who did research on the effects of electromagnetic radiation on the brain for a Pentagon weapons project.

Regression therapy could be a threat to the techniques the CIA may have secretly developed involving the use of hypnosis. Shortly after Pearl Harbor, George Estabrooks, chairman of the Department of Psychology at Colgate University, was called to Washington by the War Department. As one of the leading authorities on hypnosis, Estabrooks was asked to evaluate how it might be used by the enemy. In 1943 he wrote a book, expanded in a second edition fourteen years later, that included a discussion of the use of hypnotism in warfare. In his opinion, one in five adult humans are capable of being placed in a trance so deep that they will have no memory of it. They could be hypnotized secretly by using a disguised technique, and given a post-hypnotic suggestion. Estabrooks suggested that a dual personality could be constructed with hypnosis, thereby creating the perfect double agent with an unshakable cover.

Estabrooks' theories regarding hypnosis are disputed by many experts today. Frequently the entire topic is dismissed with the notion, promoted by Martin Orne and others, that a hypnotist cannot induce a person to perform an act that this person would otherwise find objectionable. But this in itself appears to be a cover story; if the trance is deep enough, an imaginary social environment can be constructed through which an otherwise objectionable act becomes necessary and heroic. Murdering Hitler during wartime would not be considered criminal, for example. It may even be easier than this: in 1951 in Denmark, Palle Hardrup robbed a bank and killed a guard, and then claimed that hypnotist Bjorn Nielsen told him to do it. Nielsen eventually confessed that Hardrup was a test of his hypnotic techniques, which included telling Hardrup that the money from the robbery was a means to a noble end. Hardrup had become Nielsen's robot, and Nielsen was convicted.

In 1976 a book by Donald Bain titled "The Control of Candy Jones" was published by Playboy Press. This one-of-a-kind book is the story Candy Jones, who was America's leading cover girl during the forties and fifties. In 1960 Jones fell on hard times and agreed to act as a courier for the CIA. An excellent subject for hypnosis, Jones became the plaything of a CIA psychiatrist who used her to exhibit his mastery of mind-control techniques. This psychiatrist used hypnosis and drugs to develop a second personality within Jones over a period of 12 years. This second personality took the form of a courier who could be triggered by telephone with particular sounds, and after the mission was completed and the normal personality resumed, did not remember anything.

These missions were elaborate, and frequently involved world travel to deliver messages. According to the book, Jones and other victims were once even subjected to torture at a seminar at CIA headquarters, as a means of demonstrating this psychiatrist's control over his subjects.

Jones married New York radio talk-show host Long John Nebel in 1972. An amateur hypnotist, Nebel stumbled onto her secret personality, and began unravelling the story over many subsequent sessions. Author Donald Bain, a family friend, was invited to reconstruct the story from more than 200 hours of taped sessions between Jones and Nebel. Various researchers have confirmed some pieces of the story, but Bain did not name the major CIA psychiatrist involved, nor did he name a second psychiatrist who played a more marginal role. Researcher Martin Cannon recently identified this second psychiatrist as the late William Kroger, who was an associate of Louis West, Martin Orne, and another MKULTRA veteran, H.J. Eysenck. Whatever the truth is behind Candy Jones -- and it's difficult to see the book as an elaborate hoax -- there's no question that hypnotist George Estabrooks raised issues that the CIA took seriously in secret research for at least 25 years.

The MKULTRA implementing documents specified that "additional avenues to the control of human behavior" were to include "radiation, electroshock, various fields of psychology, sociology, and anthropology, graphology, harassment substances, and paramilitary devices and materials." The word "radiation" gave the Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments a reason to request a search of records on human experimentation from the CIA. Their final report, released last October, expressed dissatisfaction with the CIA's response, and recommended that the CIA get their act together so that legitimate requests can be accommodated better in the future.

One problem is the compartmentation of the CIA's record-keeping systems. Another is that the CIA immediately decided that the Committee's purview was restricted only to ionizing radiation -- the type of radiation of interest in nuclear testing, as opposed to the electromagnetic and sound waves that might be used for mind control. Finally, those documents that the CIA did release were heavily redacted. The Committee noted that they had "received numerous queries about MKULTRA and the other related programs from scholars, journalists, and citizens who have been unable to review the complete record." In fact, most of the MKULTRA records were destroyed in 1973 by the order of Richard Helms, who waived an internal CIA regulation to do so. It was also the practice of MKULTRA to maintain as few records as possible.

If ESP, waves, implants, satanic ritual abuse and post-hypnotic robots aren't sufficient, recently the subject of mind control has been intertwined with UFOs. Seemingly jealous of the credibility enjoyed by victims of alien abduction, researcher Julianne McKinney promotes the view that the entire UFO phenomenon was created by the secret state. A more thorough researcher, Martin Cannon, also promotes this view. In a long monograph titled "The Controllers," he explains the UFO phenomenon as a "screen memory" cover story induced by U.S. intelligence to protect their own mind-control experiments.

On the other hand, the implicit assumption behind McKinney and Cannon that it must be either/or -- either aliens from outer space or spooks with a bag of secret tricks -- seems arbitrary. If the ethically-challenged U.S. intelligence community has proven anything during the last half- century, it's that they would not find it objectionable to work on behalf of aliens from outer space, and against the interests of humankind.

Another possible scenario is that aliens are real, U.S. intelligence knows more than they are telling, and they send out disinformation agents to keep the issue at merely a low simmer. By muddying the waters with kook-biz, they keep it from becoming officially-credible spook-biz, at which point it might boil over into eschatology, mass hysteria, and vigilantism.

UFO researchers have recently become interested in the Aviary, a group of former and current U.S. spooks, along with some defense- contracting scientists, who may or may not have official status. Apparently the mission of this group is to discredit any serious research into UFOs. Its members include Col. John B. Alexander, Harold Puthoff from the remote viewing project, and Jack Vorona of the Defense Intelligence Agency (formerly the boss of Michael Persinger). The names of others are floating around the Internet as well.

Some Aviarians claim to be UFOlogists themselves, or are friendly and good-natured with other UFOlogists, and some genuine UFO researchers are quick to squabble with other researchers. This makes it nearly impossible to sort out who is disinforming whom, and difficult to distinguish the white hats from the black hats. Since he began looking into the Aviary, British researcher Armen Victorian has been burgled eight times, his car broken into three times, his telephone tapped, and a bug was discovered in his home. All this happened courtesy of British intelligence and police, reportedly as a favor for the CIA.

Something is going on here, and chances are excellent that it's not happening merely for our general amusement. Whoever the men in black turn out to be, it's not the casually-titillated viewer of "The X Files" that worries them. Instead, it's the relentless researchers who track their careers and publicize their deeds, hoping that one day the state will have no secrets, and that those who live off of its impoverished taxpayers will, in the end, be held accountable.

Those involved in parapsychology, mind control, and UFOlogy who have government connections make up a small community; the same names reappear constantly. Ranged against them are the independent researchers -- also a small community. Leaving aside Laurance Rockefeller, who is funding some activity in this area, presumably out of personal interest, there don't appear to be mysterious sums of money floating around. That means the field is open for dedicated researchers with modest resources. And that's the good news, because we need to be watching every move the psi-spooks make.

Mind Control and the Secret State
Daniel Brandt
From NameBase NewsLine, No. 12, January-March 1996

The Internet is a prodigious source of information, but using it has been compared to "trying to sip from a firehose." Access to this flood of data comes at a price: Net researchers spend much of their time sifting the valuable from the dubious from the insane. Never has this been more true than in dealing with Net resources on the topic of mind control.

To begin with, there is the problem of definition. "Mind control" has been taken to mean many different things, and all these definitions have their advocates on the Net. Some of the discussion on the Internet involves the purported harassment of individuals for the purpose of disorienting them, or decreasing their ability to discuss issues of importance. This includes the use of less-than-lethal technologies such as microwave or ELF irradiation, sonics, and other techniques. Ed Light and Julianne McKinney argue that such harassment is real.

Other research and commentary on the Net concerns individual mind control by means of what I call "structured abuse," and what L. Ron Hubbard once identified as "drug/pain/hypnosis" conditioning. Discussions on this topic can be found on many pages related to satanic ritual abuse, alien abductions, and the "false memory syndrome" debate. This area is where my research efforts are concentrated.

Exploring mind control on the Net is complicated by the fact that many of the most active participants claim they are also victims. Their intensity is understandable; if I had been subjected to the abuses claimed by these authors, I would certainly want to publicize them. Ed Light hosts the Freedom of Thought Foundation home page and tells his story there. Alan Yu has contributed extensively to the alt.mindcontrol Usenet newsgroup on this subject. Another self-identified victim who has posted extensively is Glen Nichols.[1]

Many of the claims that such people make may seem incredible. Still, we know that in the past intelligence agencies have committed crimes they called "research." The Rockefeller Commission and the Church Committee in the 1970s exposed some of the horrors of the CIA's MKULTRA programs, and it remains extremely likely that much more remains hidden.

Having spoken to several purported survivors of trauma-based mind control who had significant although not conclusive corroborating evidence, I am inclined to give these people the benefit of the doubt. Many survivors of conventional abuse endure additional suffering because of their difficulty in revealing what happened to them, and in persuading others of the reality of their abuse. I try to achieve a balance between acceptance of and skepticism toward survivors' stories, and then try to seek independent corroboration.

The Net is a particularly fertile field for anyone investigating possible links between satanic ritual abuse and mind control. There's a Net site that supports every imaginable position, from False Memory Syndrome Foundation's iron-clad skepticism to fundamentalist pages proclaiming tens of thousands of abuse victims per year.[2] My own opinion is that the application of "structured abuse" to young children, combined with classical conditioning techniques, could create alternate personalities that could be easily controlled and manipulated. This would not require complex technology, only secrecy and ruthlessness.

Any group capable of such techniques would see "benefits" in the existence of such slaves. Some claim that purported "satanic ritual abuse" can be a cover for experiments by intelligence agencies. My own opinion is that this claim ought not to be rejected out of hand. The CIA has a record of distancing itself from morally-indefensible operations by using fronts and cutouts. A similar case has been made for "alien abductions." Perhaps the best-known discussion of possible links between mind control and alien abductions is Martin Cannon's monograph "The Controllers," available in several forms from many sites.[3] Cannon claims that some alien abductions are cover for mind-control efforts, and represent an attempt to deal with victims' memories of such procedures. Variations of Cannon's view can be found in Usenet discussions of "alien abductions" as cover for the implantation of microchips to track and/or control individuals. Again, even these claims seem to me to deserve airing. The CIA has a history of attempting to manipulate the existence of cults and other mass- psychological phenomena to advance its objectives.

And the same could be true of the Internet. On the Net, information flows rapidly, and is often impossible to verify. Anonymous rumors can easily be inserted into the data-stream. Paranoia about poisoned sources can easily overtake a researcher. As a topic for serious discussion on the Net, "UFOlogy" already seems to have self-destructed, and "mind control" may be next. The welcome freewheeling quality of Net discourse is offset by the possibility that important subjects can be trivialized, and then disappear.

What is a researcher on this topic to do? Valuable though the Net and its e-mail community are, the Net's greatest value remains that of a pointer to other sources: potential interviews; journals; and, yes, even books.

1. Ed Light runs the Freedom of Thought Foundation home page at: http://members.gnn.com/fivestring Glen Nichols' and Alan Yu's stories can be found there as well.
2. The False Memory Syndrome Foundation is at: http://iquest.com/~fitz/fmsf/ Hopeful Hands, a religiously-oriented satanic ritual abuse page is at: http://www.mother.com/~clburger/hopeful/homepage.htm
3. The Controllers is available at: http://www.lablinks.com/sumeria/cosmo/control.html

Thomas Porter, from Winston-Salem NC, is a software engineer by necessity and a researcher by desire. He is the author of a Web site titled "Government Research into ESP and Mind Control" at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/T_Porter[/FONT]
Reply
#4
In the MK-ULTRA Iceberg thread, I accused Jolly West of the Biblical sin of onanism.

My justification is that the Jolly One was claiming to provide medical and ethical oversight to the "psychic spies" who were remote viewing the Symbionese Liberation Army.

Of course the SLA was a creation of the Phoenix Program, which was in part a field testing offshoot of MK-ULTRA, and thus part of the MK-ULTRA iceberg.

Jolly West's psychic spies were remote viewing his own creation...


Jan Klimkowski Wrote:
Myra Bronstein Wrote:Thank you for this summary Jan.
Your comments about Operation Phoenix reminded me of this quote from Mae Brussell (when asked about the Patty Hearst episode):

"What we are now experiencing is the importation of the dreaded "Operation Phoenix" program into the United States. William E. Colby, Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, will be conducting paramilitary operations in order to escalate the necessity for martial law.

Through various created and manipulated acts of violence, the only "solution" to "chaos, anarchy, and senseless violent acts" will be a police state. Colby's C.I.A. specialty, the "Phoenix Operation" in Southeast Asia, was known for its torture, political assassinations, mass murders (20,000 to 40,000 civilians), tiger cages, rigged elections, and slanted intelligence.

.............(snipped)

The Phoenix program was an indiscriminate murder program in Asia, utilizing terror and the killing of innocent people. The Hearst kidnapping is part of the Phoenix program inside the United States."

Myra - I absolutely agree with Mae Brussell.

I believe MK-ULTRA to be one of many parallel programmes which developed and field tested "mind control" techniques. These parallel programmes existed within different parts of the American, British and European military-multinational-intelligence complex, and sometimes spoke to each other and sometimes didn't.

In this context, it should be noted that the later remote viewing* research had separate Army Intelligence, CIA, NSA, ONI and DIA programmes. So, to assume something as important as "mind control" would be limited to the CIA's MK-ULTRA programme is, imo, naive.

I regard the Phoenix Program as a perfect opportunity for the black doctors & shrinks to use experimental techniques in operational conditions with zero accountability, and one that they embraced with salivating relish and a complete absence of moral conscience.

In his excellent "The Assassinations of the 1960s as Deep Events", Prof Peter Dale Scott writes:

Quote:I have a personal reason for my interest in CIA links to Manchurian candidates and assassinations. Some of you may recall the Symbionese Liberation Army (S.L.A.) in the 1970s, the group led by "Cinque" or Donald DeFreeze. The S.L.A. first made headlines by murdering the superintendent of the Oakland School District, Marcus Foster; it subsequently kidnapped Patty Hearst and is said to have brainwashed her. As a convict, Cinque had participated in a behavior modification program in the California Medical Facility at Vacaville state prison; and that program�s director, Colton Westbrook, subsequently applied to teach in my Department of English at UC Berkeley. The chairman asked me to peruse Westbrook�s curriculum vitae; and I immediately noticed that while in Vietnam Westbrook had worked as a civilian employee of Pacific Architects & Engineers (PA&E). PA&E was a well-known cover for the CIA in Saigon, and I so notified the Chairman. Westbrook did not get the job.

Yes, that's right. Donald DeFreeze was part of a behaviour modification programme run in Vacaville prison by Phoenix Program veteran Colston Westbrook. DeFreeze was then allowed to escape, and formed the Symbionese Liberation Army. When he captured Patty Hearst, he did not randomly abuse her:

Quote:For about forty days, Patty Hearst was kept in solitary confinement in the closet with no contact with the outside world. Besides profound sensory deprivation, she was subjected to food and sleep deprivation, sexual molestation, frequent interrogations and mock FBI raids staged by the SLA. During these she thought she might be killed at any time. Once out of the closet she was subjected to further interrogation and threats. Her autobiography makes it clear that the SLA used the classical techniques of thought reform, coercive persuasion, mind control, or brainwashing.

(p195, Dr Colin Ross, The CIA Doctors)

At Patty Hearst's trial, the expert witnesses were a veritable spook's gallery: Jolly West, Dr Martin Orne (MK-ULTRA master hypnotist), Dr Margaret Singer ("brainwashing" expert and like Orne & West, a member of the MK-ULTRA cover-up project known as the False Memory Syndrome Foundation), and Dr Robert Jay Lifton.

Quote:Dr West testified that Patty Hearst had a new identity deliberately created by Donald DeFreeze. All four expert witnesses testified that Patty Hearst had been brainwashed using classical mind control techniques.
(p199, Dr Colin Ross, The CIA Doctors)

In other words, DeFreeze & the SLA had transformed heiress Patty Hearst into a Manchurian Candidate bank robber.

Where did a street hood and unsuccessful armed robber like Donald DeFreeze learn such sophisticated programming techniques? There's only answer that makes sense to me, and its symbol is the bird that rose from the dead. As I have written in the context of Charles Manson, my conclusion is that DeFreeze was a controlled controller - created, in part, by Phoenix Program veteran Colston Westbrook.

-------------------

*As a bizarre footnote, in 1974, the deep black remote viewing programme at Stanford Research Institute was tasked by their NSA masters with remote viewing... the SLA... :eek::eek::eek:

Medical & ethical oversight for this remote viewing programme was provided by.... Dr Louis Jolyon West.... :eek::eek::eek:

For taking such pride in observing his creations, Jolly surely stands convicted of the Biblical sin of onanism.

This is way way into the Twilight Zone...
"It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted...."
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War."

Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon

"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta."
The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Red Ice Radio: Interview with Mark Hackard on Russia and the West: Cold War & Espionage History Paul Rigby 0 3,677 21-06-2015, 12:48 PM
Last Post: Paul Rigby
  Yawn! Another Indication of 'West' Not Caring About 'East' Citizen's Oppression Peter Lemkin 1 2,968 18-04-2010, 10:58 AM
Last Post: Paul Rigby

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)