Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis

[Jan Klimkowski]

At its most fundamental level, Gladio is not about right-wing or left-wing politics.

Gladio, and its successor operations, are about Power and Control.

And I will assert that "power and control" are the currency of the right.

Or what one could say most people would call "the right", so your statement is accurate in that respect.

The very foundation of this argument -- that there are significant distinctions between the ideologies we define as politically "Right" and "Left" -- is the fatal flaw in it.

"Right or Left" -- a false choice of sinister design and application.

Precisely.

[Jeffrey Orling]

Jan could you elaborate on this statement... I am honestly confused as I see the positions and world views (common wisdom) of the right and left to be polar opposites.

While the views people who embrace these ways of seeing the world are opposite and very different, they may emply the same tactics and strategies to advance their agenda toward acheiving their goal. So we see the use of force as a means of struggle emplyed by both the right and the left... in that the two opposites are similiar.

However, the implication of your statement (to me) is that the difference between the left and the right is of no signifance and it's simply a different name... and ultimately a distraction and a way to divide people.

I am not opposed to seeing this differently, but a mere assertion is not a convincing argument.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Jan could you elaborate on this statement... I am honestly confused as I see the positions and world views (common wisdom) of the right and left to be polar opposites.

Which means you've bought a ticket for the stalls and are happy to suspend disbelief in uncritical fashion.

Check my signature.

In America, the nature of this theatre is even more brazen than in Europe. You still have the false and manufactured dichotomy of the Republican and Democratic parties.....

[Jeffrey Orling]

Which means you've bought a ticket for the stalls and are happy to suspend disbelief in uncritical fashion.

Check my signature.

In America, the nature of this theatre is even more brazen than in Europe. You still have the false and manufactured dichotomy of the Republican and Democratic parties.....

Jan, kindly answer the question and don't be cryptic. I am well aware the the repubicans and democrats in the USA represent corporations and are not anything like a left and a right in the traditional sense.

This goes back to the Gladio issue where I said it was the right v left in Italy and several other countries in Europe. Gladio was a program of the RIGHT... decidedly not the left which was the victim of Gladio.

Do you disagree with this or not?

[Jan Klimkowski]

Which means you've bought a ticket for the stalls and are happy to suspend disbelief in uncritical fashion.

Check my signature.

In America, the nature of this theatre is even more brazen than in Europe. You still have the false and manufactured dichotomy of the Republican and Democratic parties.....

Jan, kindly answer the question and don't be cryptic. I am well aware the the repubicans and democrats in the USA represent corporations and are not anything like a left and a right in the traditional sense.

Jeffrey - I'm not being cryptic, and I'm not going to spoonfeed you.

You've been a member of DPF since January 2011, but I see no development in your deep political analysis since the day you joined.

This goes back to the Gladio issue where I said it was the right v left in Italy and several other countries in Europe. Gladio was a program of the RIGHT... decidedly not the left which was the victim of Gladio.

Do you disagree with this or not?

Yes, I totally disagree.

I've already answered this very explicitly.

Here you are again:

The Deep Politics Forum is named after Peter Dale Scott's work, and looks to develop and explore understanding of deep political structures.

Just as it is puerile to assert that a monolithic organisation such as the CIA or the Masons assassinated JFK, so it lacks rigour to state that Gladio was a "creation of the right".

In truth, Gladio was in no sense "a creation of the right". Gladio was a highly compartmentalised intelligence operation, with a deep and isolated cell structure, and a mission to create chaos: Strategia Della Tensione.

Gladio was opportunistic: it used and exploited groups originally created for other purposes, such as the "stay behind" structures.

The links between the controlling echelons of Gladio and Gehlen Org are shadowy but clear, provocative and dangerous.

Gladio false flag operations were typically atrocities, directed at the citizenry, to spread fear and terror.

At its most fundamental level, Gladio is not about right-wing or left-wing politics.

Gladio, and its successor operations, are about Power and Control.

[Charles Drago]

Which means you've bought a ticket for the stalls and are happy to suspend disbelief in uncritical fashion.

Check my signature.

In America, the nature of this theatre is even more brazen than in Europe. You still have the false and manufactured dichotomy of the Republican and Democratic parties.....

Jan, kindly answer the question and don't be cryptic. I am well aware the the repubicans and democrats in the USA represent corporations and are not anything like a left and a right in the traditional sense.

Jeffrey - I'm not being cryptic, and I'm not going to spoonfeed you.

You've been a member of DPF since January 2011, but I see no development in your deep political analysis since the day you joined.

This goes back to the Gladio issue where I said it was the right v left in Italy and several other countries in Europe. Gladio was a program of the RIGHT... decidedly not the left which was the victim of Gladio.

Do you disagree with this or not?

Yes, I totally disagree.

I've already answered this very explicitly.

Here you are again:

The Deep Politics Forum is named after Peter Dale Scott's work, and looks to develop and explore understanding of deep political structures.

Just as it is puerile to assert that a monolithic organisation such as the CIA or the Masons assassinated JFK, so it lacks rigour to state that Gladio was a "creation of the right".

In truth, Gladio was in no sense "a creation of the right". Gladio was a highly compartmentalised intelligence operation, with a deep and isolated cell structure, and a mission to create chaos: Strategia Della Tensione.

Gladio was opportunistic: it used and exploited groups originally created for other purposes, such as the "stay behind" structures.

The links between the controlling echelons of Gladio and Gehlen Org are shadowy but clear, provocative and dangerous.

Gladio false flag operations were typically atrocities, directed at the citizenry, to spread fear and terror.

At its most fundamental level, Gladio is not about right-wing or left-wing politics.

Gladio, and its successor operations, are about Power and Control.

[Jeffrey Orling]

Jan,

please explain the purpose of:

"Power and Control"

I can only assume this means things such as:

the economy, the means of production, labor, the military, police, laws, all domestic and foreign policy... and so forth

By whom and to what end? qui bono?

I think this goes to the nature of control (and power)... in that tit seems to suggest that it is wielded somehow to control *the many*. In a top down model it is the FEW who control and have power over the many... to use this power and control presumably as they wany for whatever purpose... personal enrichment for example... or perhaps general well being for all as another.

In distrubuted power and control.. the many have the power and control over the many... admittedly a complicated and inefficient model.

My conception of left right is more akin to top down control vs democratic control... not even bottom up (representative authority franchise). Try as I might I see Gladio of a program BY and FOR the right to advance their agenda.

To claim that the left right frame is nonsense or a false dichotomy is to deny reality... and the "struggle" that has existed as long as there was the struggle for survival.

Have you read Dawkins "the Selfish Gene" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene

[Magda Hassan]

To claim that the left right frame is nonsense or a false dichotomy is to deny reality... and the "struggle" that has existed as long as there was the struggle for survival.

Oh, dear....

Have you read Dawkins "the Selfish Gene" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene

You wont find what you are looking for in biological determinism.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Jan,

please explain the purpose of:

"Power and Control"

Jeffrey - the essence of Power and Control is a rich man raping a child.

This is a sexual act, but not primarily so.

Fundamentally, it is an act of Power and Control.

The purpose of Power and Control is to demonstrate and maintain Power and Control.

To claim that the left right frame is nonsense or a false dichotomy is to deny reality... and the "struggle" that has existed as long as there was the struggle for survival.

Oh, dear....

Have you read Dawkins "the Selfish Gene" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene

You wont find what you are looking for in biological determinism.

Magda - precisely so.

[Jeffrey Orling]

Jan, Magda et al.

I am sorry I fail to grasp your meme here. I am not an unintelligent person and have a decent education and have been kicking around since the middle of the last century. I have asked you to articulate to me how Gladio, for example was not a right wing strategy and you appear to be saying that the right-left is a false conception... then mentioning it's all about power and control... and fail to define:

whose power and control
what is the nature of the power
who is being controlled
and to what end? Simply because it can?
Why is left and right a nonsense frame of the struggle?

Why is so difficult to articulate this concept?

And while we are at it... how can you say that human behavior is not an emergent attribute/feature or even strategy of biological or genetic programming?

And have you read the Dawkins book?

and this:

The purpose of Power and Control is to demonstrate and maintain Power and Control.

is a tautology, a self reference and means nothing really.

Have you read

Douglas Hostadder: Godel, Escher and Bach?

Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid.