The WAR between JFK and CIA

[David Josephs]

Rather than pointing to libraries of potential research material, could you briefly describe the best evidence you have for, say, ONI involvement?

Kennedy's assassination had quite the opposite effect: the proposed transfer of control over such ops from the CIA to the DIA didn't happen.

I'm not expecting a bandwagon here Paul... Nor did I specify the DIA, but the Joint Chiefs... and in turn Military oversight of clandestine activity... The CIA is seen and will always be seen as the bogeyman... while we continue to NOT hear about the workings of the Military Intelligence Establishment.

As crazy as it may sound... the conspicuous absence of evidence related to a Marine (Still Navy at the time) and the top brass of the Navy at Bethesda would be what one would expect... the obvious pointing to the CIA - who, if you would remember, IS the muscle I am talking about - remains one of the most clever aspects of an overall plan for the MICC Sponsor-facilitators to keep us battling the CIA... (arresting the Muscle) rather than stopping the brains.

Can y'all just do me a solid and remember that ten minutes into the H&L journey, if John mentioned that H&L were different, he probably would have gotten the same response I'm getting from you... or what we know Lifton got from Leibeler.

You want to call it a done deal, that the buck stops at the CIA... have at it... I am certainly not stopping you. Yet the more I read about the CIA and the key players of the Cold War... the more I see the MICC benefiting... while the front line agents and their bosses take all the heat.

HELMS was hauled up in front of Congress... Not Rufus Taylor. You want to believe he was innocent of what I am theorizing... again, fine.

Was there a nice Industrial or Congressional Job or High Ranking Military Commission offered Helms? not so much.
You don't hire the muscle to do anything but be muscle... and fall on their sword when the time comes.

In 1977, as an indirect result of earlier clandestine operations in Chile, he became the only DCI convicted of misleading Congress.

Despite all the reports, the U.S. Justice Department never found Lansky guilty of anything more serious than illegal gambling.[SUP][3][/SUP]

[Jim Hargrove]

Hey, David,

You've done great work here, and I give your work my solid support.

I'll be on the watch for your suspects above the CIA, and I mean no disrespect whatsoever. Let's find them!!
Thanks again.

Jim

[Cliff Varnell]

Hey, David,

You've done great work here, and I give your work my solid support.

I'll be on the watch for your suspects above the CIA, and I mean no disrespect whatsoever. Let's find them!!
Thanks again.

Jim

Jim, David,

Check out the views of counter-insurgency expert William R. Corson on the over-throw of Diem in Vietnam, as laid out in Joseph Trento's The Secret History of the CIA, pgs 334-5:

Who changed the coup into the murder of Diem, Nhu and a Catholic priest accompanying them? To this day, nothing has been found in government archives tying the killings to either John or Robert Kennedy. So how did the tools and talents developed by Bill Harvey for ZR/RIFLE and Operation MONGOOSE get exported to Vietnam? Kennedy immediately ordered (William R.) Corson to find out what had happened and who was responsible. The answer he came up with: "On instructions from Averell Harriman…. The orders that ended in the deaths of Diem and his brother originated with Harriman and were carried out by Henry Cabot Lodge's own military assistant."

Having served as ambassador to Moscow and governor of New York, W. Averell Harriman was in the middle of a long public career. In 1960, President-elect Kennedy appointed him ambassador-at-large, to operate "with the full confidence of the president and an intimate knowledge of all aspects of United States policy." By 1963, according to Corson, Harriman was running "Vietnam without consulting the president or the attorney general."

The president had begun to suspect that not everyone on his national security team was loyal. As Corson put it, "Kenny O'Donnell (JFK's appointments secretary) was convinced that McGeorge Bundy, the national security advisor, was taking orders from Ambassador Averell Harriman and not the president. He was especially worried about Michael Forrestal, a young man on the White House staff who handled liaison on Vietnam with Harriman."

At the heart of the murders was the sudden and strange recall of Sagon Station Chief Jocko Richardson and his replacement by a no-name team barely known to history. The key member was a Special Operations Army officer, John Michael Dunn, who took his orders, not from the normal CIA hierarchy but from Harriman and Forrestal.

According to Corson, "John Michael Dunn was known to be in touch with the coup plotters," although Dunn's role has never been made public. Corson believes that Richardson was removed so that Dunn, assigned to Ambassador Lodge for "special operations," could act without hindrance.

So if Corson was correct, there were military/intel types who did not follow either the military or intel hierarchies, but the command of W. Averell Harriman.

Who might have played the Forrestal go-between role in Dallas? George HW Bush?

[David Josephs]

Hey, David,

You've done great work here, and I give your work my solid support.

I'll be on the watch for your suspects above the CIA, and I mean no disrespect whatsoever. Let's find them!!
Thanks again.

Jim

Jim, David,

Check out the views of counter-insurgency expert William R. Corson on the over-throw of Diem in Vietnam, as laid out in Joseph Trento's The Secret History of the CIA, pgs 334-5:

Who changed the coup into the murder of Diem, Nhu and a Catholic priest accompanying them? To this day, nothing has been found in government archives tying the killings to either John or Robert Kennedy. So how did the tools and talents developed by Bill Harvey for ZR/RIFLE and Operation MONGOOSE get exported to Vietnam? Kennedy immediately ordered (William R.) Corson to find out what had happened and who was responsible. The answer he came up with: "On instructions from Averell Harriman…. The orders that ended in the deaths of Diem and his brother originated with Harriman and were carried out by Henry Cabot Lodge's own military assistant."

Having served as ambassador to Moscow and governor of New York, W. Averell Harriman was in the middle of a long public career. In 1960, President-elect Kennedy appointed him ambassador-at-large, to operate "with the full confidence of the president and an intimate knowledge of all aspects of United States policy." By 1963, according to Corson, Harriman was running "Vietnam without consulting the president or the attorney general."

The president had begun to suspect that not everyone on his national security team was loyal. As Corson put it, "Kenny O'Donnell (JFK's appointments secretary) was convinced that McGeorge Bundy, the national security advisor, was taking orders from Ambassador Averell Harriman and not the president. He was especially worried about Michael Forrestal, a young man on the White House staff who handled liaison on Vietnam with Harriman."

At the heart of the murders was the sudden and strange recall of Sagon Station Chief Jocko Richardson and his replacement by a no-name team barely known to history. The key member was a Special Operations Army officer, John Michael Dunn, who took his orders, not from the normal CIA hierarchy but from Harriman and Forrestal.

According to Corson, "John Michael Dunn was known to be in touch with the coup plotters," although Dunn's role has never been made public. Corson believes that Richardson was removed so that Dunn, assigned to Ambassador Lodge for "special operations," could act without hindrance.

So if Corson was correct, there were military/intel types who did not follow either the military or intel hierarchies, but the command of W. Averell Harriman.

Who might have played the Forrestal go-between role in Dallas? George HW Bush?

Cliff...

Makes perfect sense to recognize Harriman over Bundy... a non-elected adviser and man at the center of so many policy orders... Harriman the perfect conduit for the wishes of those pulling levers... the bankers/lawyers at the Brown level and above.

<side trip>
The connections to the Germans is unavoidable...
the connection to communist influence at the transition between Hot War to Cold War... The rebuilding of the German world order centered/financed now from South America... fully integrated into the new world intelligence community... Russians/Asians infiltrated every major intelligence service and used the movement of post WWII refugees to solidify this control.

As open as the US society was, I think we lose sight as to how easy it was for other nations with a history of infiltration and propaganda - financed by the same elite who we are now referring to - to be so representative on both sides of the War... and to control most of the information, most of the outcomes... and benefit from them as best as possible.

It would be of some surprise to know the extent of nation-less individuals operating under ideological morals - the locking of "hearts and minds" forces - democracy vs communism vs fascism - all result with the same oligarchy on top.
<end>

Would a man like GHW be placed in potential harm's way? A future president... a CIA protected "elite" asset...

I don't know... interesting thought though...
thanks
DJ

[Cliff Varnell]

Harriman the perfect conduit for the wishes of those pulling levers.

David, the more I read about this guy the less likely it seems anyone was pulling his levers.

Harriman acted like a sovereign. His long-time employee was Prescott Bush. His wife Pamela Churchill Harriman raised 12 million dollars for Bill Clinton's 1992 Prez campaign.

The proteges of Ave and Pam occupied the White House for 20 years after Harriman died in '86.

There has never been a geopolitical operator like W. Averell Harriman.

Likely 2016 Pres match-up: Hillary Clinton v. Jeb Bush. It'll be the coziest intra-mural contest since Averell ran against Nelson Rockefeller for Gov of NY in 1958.

[David Josephs]

Harriman the perfect conduit for the wishes of those pulling levers.

David, the more I read about this guy the less likely it seems anyone was pulling his levers.

Harriman acted like a sovereign. His long-time employee was Prescott Bush. His wife Pamela Churchill Harriman raised 12 million dollars for Bill Clinton's 1992 Prez campaign.

The proteges of Ave and Pam occupied the White House for 20 years after Harriman died in '86.

There has never been a geopolitical operator like W. Averell Harriman.

Likely 2016 Pres match-up: Hillary Clinton v. Jeb Bush. It'll be the coziest intra-mural contest since Averell ran against Nelson Rockefeller for Gov of NY in 1958.

Central to the concept of SPONSORS is that there are no rogues... that there is a plan and direction and that it is coordinated... not necessarily that someone was pulling his levers as much as his actions were part of a whole designed to forward the interests of a global concern...

Skull and Bones... largest inherited fortune in the US.... 1945 Ambassador to the USSR.... Supporter of Kennan's Long Telegram...
Harriman was one of the architects of the Cold War and the unbridled expansion of the MICComplex thru the 50's.

He was placed into a perfect position to influence policy and make his own as need be... his "own" being a relative term.
The connection to USSR diplomacy appears to be a common vein running thru these NorthEast Elites... much of my attention now is in the 20's and 30's which lays the groundwork for what occurs during FDR's initial terms and into the creation of the OSS and its transition into the CIA... all of which done with the military and NE elites at the center...

Espionage predates the USA by hundreds if not thousands of European/Eurasian years... and are the models for the US efforts... without a study of the British Security Coordination, Canadian industrialist William Stephenson, "Wild Bill" Donovan, and South America I don't think we can get a true image of what was going on at the time the CIA was created and the Military was reorganized. Behind that I am also looking back to the beginning of US espionage, the Culper Ring... along with the start of US Banking with Hamilton and Burr... and in turn the rise of the lawyers... Law and Money runs it all, imho, and is so insulated at this point as to be virtually impossible to penetrate.

During WWI I believe the "axis" countries realized how easy it would be to infiltrate and control US politics after having done so with the creation of the CFR and the passage of the Fed Reserve Act... I do not see it as much of a stretch to connect the creation of the CIA with the needs to counterbalance the KGB and what to do with the existing European spy rings so that the Russians didn't own the entire game... or, depending on how you see it, maybe they did.

M.A.D. spent the huge sums of money arming each side while the spies played the ground game... and kept the war fires burning...

at the end of the day, there is no difference between communism and capitalism at the MIC Complex level... and now with "terrorism" as the never-ending bogeyman of the world, we are offered an enemy that will never disappear, never be depleted, and easily identifiable regardless of who actually causes any "problem"...

Clinton v Bush... I shudder at the thought Cliff... thanks for the nightmares!

[Jim Hargrove]

Central to the concept of SPONSORS is that there are no rogues... that there is a plan and direction and that it is coordinated... not necessarily that someone was pulling his levers as much as his actions were part of a whole designed to forward the interests of a global concern...

JA said you were looking anew at Admiral Burkley after discovering that he didn't become JFK's personal physician until the summer of '63. I had always assumed the relationship was longer, but mid-1963 certainly looks like the the crucial time for getting ducks lined up for the assassination. And as ducky luck would have it, weren't Dulles and Hunt wrapping up their collaboration on The Craft of Intelligence at just about the same time?

[David Josephs]

Central to the concept of SPONSORS is that there are no rogues... that there is a plan and direction and that it is coordinated... not necessarily that someone was pulling his levers as much as his actions were part of a whole designed to forward the interests of a global concern...

JA said you were looking anew at Admiral Burkley after discovering that he didn't become JFK's personal physician until the summer of '63. I had always assumed the relationship was longer, but mid-1963 certainly looks like the the crucial time for getting ducks lined up for the assassination. And as ducky luck would have it, weren't Dulles and Hunt wrapping up their collaboration on The Craft of Intelligence at just about the same time?

Interesting how that book is so pivotal given it builds on the techniques presented in Sun Tzu's ancient Art of War. I am researching the creation of the US intelligence "industry" that brought us to 1947 and then on to 1963. It remains my belief that after over 150 years Army and Navy Intelligence was not just going to hand the reins over to some start-up staffed/infultrated with Russian and German communists. But I am only just now scratching the surface and compiling my research... I hope something decent comes of it

DJ


He was posted as the physician at Camp David, a Navy facility, in 1959
and accompanied President Eisenhower on a major trip to the Far East. In August
of 1961 Dr. Burkley was promoted to Rear Admiral and assigned to the White
House, initially as assistant physician before becoming Physician to the
President in June of 1963. Responsible for the day-to-day management of JFK's
rather complex medical situation which included Addison's Disease he also
provided care to the White House staff.

Camp David manages a recruiting team to identify Sailors for assignment to Camp David by traveling to various naval facilities. The recruiting team conducts record screening and personal interviews with personnel who meet the initial qualification criteria. Once selected, a single scope background investigation will be initiated by the Camp David recruiting team to determine Top Secret and Sensitive Compartmentalized Information (TS/SCI) eligibility with a Yankee White (YW) clearance.

[size=12]Camp David screening procedures require time intensive and costly background investigations. A TS/SCI and YW clearance may take approximately 10 to 18 months to complete. Therefore, upon notification from a Camp David recruiting yeoman, Navy Personnel Command (NAVPERSCOM), Major Washington/Memphis Staff detailer (PERS-4010F) will place a candidate's record in a detailing hold status. This hold status notifies the respective rating detailers that the candidate is being screened
for Camp David and not to create orders. Once a candidate receives a YW clearance and meets all other requirements per MILPERSMAN 1306-900 and MILPERSMAN 1306-945, the recruiting yeoman will notify NAVPERSCOM (PERS-4010F) to create orders to Camp David, with the exception of those candidates recruited directly from "A" school, who will report to Camp David while their YW clearance is being processed.
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Burkley spent alot of time around Eisenhower up at Camp David in the years prior (Camp David appears to have been overseen by the Navy).... He was als instrumental in getting Dr Travell replaced due to her overuse of steriod therapy and his concern that JFK's muscles would atrophy. Burkley remains the only doctor to see JFK in Dallas and Bethesda... and was NOT called by the WC.
DJ

BURKLEY: Oh, it was a question of several weeks. At that time, I had
attempted to secure the aid of a physical medicine specialist. Doctor Hans
Kraus of New York, and had requested contact with him from Dr. Travell. She had
resisted doing this, and I, I said if she did not call him personally, I would
call him. And at that point he was called, and from then on the management of
the President's exercise and program was entirely under Dr. Kraus and Dr.
Travell was instructed not to have any, to attempt to interfere in any way.