Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live

[Paul Rigby]

TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES

http://rt.com/news/173976-mh17-crash-questions-ukraine/

1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?

2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don't have any planes?

3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?

4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?

5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?

6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards "the anti-terrorist operation zone"?

7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?

8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?

9. Why did Ukraine's Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?

10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine's Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.

[Paul Rigby]

MH17 Shootdown Shows Chaff Was Deployed Proving Fighter Jet Was Somehow Involved!

Friday, July 18, 2014 7:20

Photographs and videos emerging from the shootdown of Malaysian Flight 17 shows that chaff was deployed as shared in this newly released video from potrblog, proving that a fighter jet was somehow involved in this false flag takedown of the Malaysian jet. With the lies the MSM has told about this downed jet now completely falling apart, was it a US, UN or Ukrainian jet that REALLY took down MH17? Much more below.

The video below is purported to be of the 777 shoot down in Ukraine. Note that @11 seconds into the video Chaff streamers are floating down on to the wreckage site. Chaff is dispensed from military aircraft to obscure an aircraft from RADAR and RADAR guided missiles. The presence of the Chaff indicates something is not right about the story being told.

IF this is video of the 777 shoot down in Ukraine, it indicates that a military aircraft was involved in the shoot down. This could be anything from a fighter actually shooting down the 777, to a fighter shadowing the 777 and having to launch Chaff to avoid a missile.

What ever the case, the glittering streamers and specs in the video show that the official story being told is not correct.

[video=youtube_share;PUltrf8n_vA]http://youtu.be/PUltrf8n_vA[/video]

[Paul Rigby]

[video=youtube_share;PrFCqQvBzf4]http://youtu.be/PrFCqQvBzf4[/video]

What makes the events described by Carlos so plausible is, for me, the use of the SBU, the CIA's primary cloak in Ukraine, to snatch the evidence of Ukie fighter responsibility for the shoot down.

Ukraine's Security Service Has Confiscated Air Traffic Control Recordings With Malaysian Jet

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/18/2014 16:45 -0400

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18...alaysian-j

Earlier, when we commented in the abnormality in the flight path of flight MH-17 we said that "perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?"

The simple answer would have come if Ukraine had merely released the Air Traffic Control recording from the tower and flight MH 17, something Malaysia did in the aftermath of the disappearance of flight MH 370, which at last check has still not been uncovered.

It now appears that answer will not be forthcoming because as the BBC reports "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."

What happens to the recordings next is completely unknown. What is known is that any hope of getting an undoctored explanation why the plane flew as it did, or what the pilots may have seen or said in the moments before the explosion, is forever gone.

It also means that any hope of actually working with facts instead of emotional appeals, and getting to the bottom of the Malaysian airline tragedy, resides in what may be recorded by the black box, whose location right now is now exactly clear. From the Independent:

"Ukraine's emergency services have found two black boxes at the crash site of the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, the governor of eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region has been quoted as saying.

"Two black boxes were found by our emergency services. I have no information on where these boxes are at the moment," Kostyantyn Batovsky told the Interfax-Ukraine news agency.

Pro-Russian separatists in the region said on Thursday they had found one black box when the Malaysian airliner came down between Krasni Luch in Luhansk region and Shakhtarsk in the neighbouring region of Donetsk.

The Interfax-Ukraine news agency had claimed the first black box has been sent to Moscow for analysis, the BBC reported. The news agency now reports a second black box has been recovered at the crash site.

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has been quoted as saying Russia does not plan to take the "black box" flight recorders from downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in territory held by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine,

However, separatist leader Aleksandr Borodai told the Associated Press: "No black boxes have been found ... We hope that experts will track them down and create a picture of what has happened."

A spokesman for the Emergencies Ministry in Kiev declined to comment on the report.

In other words, even more fact-free confusion and speculation which is just what a propaganda-based reporting system needs.

And so, just like in the case of flight MH-370, what actually happened with MH-17 may never be known.

[Magda Hassan]

This. But all relevant.

TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES

http://rt.com/news/173976-mh17-crash-questions-ukraine/

1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?

2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don't have any planes?

3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?

4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?

5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?

6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards "the anti-terrorist operation zone"?

7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?

8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?

9. Why did Ukraine's Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?

10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine's Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.

[Drew Phipps]

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/07/18/re...d%3D503783

From news 7/18/14:

Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash

Jul 18th 2014 2:28PM

MOSCOW (AP) -- A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash - suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition. The Malaysia Airlines Boeing-777 was shot down Thursday, killing all 298 people aboard. The plane was flying 10,000 meters above an area where Ukrainian forces have been fighting separatist rebels. Each side accuses the other of downing the plane.
U.S. intelligence authorities said a surface-to-air missile brought down the plane, and U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power told the U.N. Security Council in New York on Friday that the missile was likely fired from a rebel-held area near the Russian border.

Girkin, also known as Strelkov and allegedly a former Russian military intelligence agent, said he couldn't confirm the information. But it's sure to add to the intense emotions surrounding the crash, with the rebels accused of shooting down the plane. Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness." He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.

***

Zombie passengers? Vampire Victims? Maybe aliens have stepped up from cow mutilation?

[Danny Jarman]

The Daily Mail now running a story called "Putin killed my baby" FFS.

[Albert Doyle]

I love it. Princeton Russia expert Stephen Cohen spoke truth to power on CNN when he told ex CIA director Woolsey that everything he just said wasn't true.

Cohen said that the US tries to make it look like Putin is to blame but we started the problem. CNN makes him look like a lone nut.

[Peter Lemkin]

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/07/18/re...d%3D503783[B]

From news 7/18/14:

Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash[/B]

Jul 18th 2014 2:28PM

MOSCOW (AP) -- A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash - suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition. The Malaysia Airlines Boeing-777 was shot down Thursday, killing all 298 people aboard. The plane was flying 10,000 meters above an area where Ukrainian forces have been fighting separatist rebels. Each side accuses the other of downing the plane.
U.S. intelligence authorities said a surface-to-air missile brought down the plane, and U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power told the U.N. Security Council in New York on Friday that the missile was likely fired from a rebel-held area near the Russian border.

Girkin, also known as Strelkov and allegedly a former Russian military intelligence agent, said he couldn't confirm the information. But it's sure to add to the intense emotions surrounding the crash, with the rebels accused of shooting down the plane. Girkin said "Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness." He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.

***

Zombie passengers? Vampire Victims? Maybe aliens have stepped up from cow mutilation?

Oh please....if this isn't an invention for one of many reasons, they could have lost blood with the depressurization of the plane. Everyone saw them get on the plane fine and the pilots certainly weren't dead nor flying a hearse.

[Peter Lemkin]

To date, the most damning evidence I've seen is the chaff. I'm not an expert, but it looks like it to me. Experts familiar with it should be able to very easily ID it from the photos or from pieces on the ground among the wreckage [if given access]. That would be very damning indeed......but, I caution people from automatically then pointing a finger at just one side. Two 'sides' and possibly three have planes. While the Ukrainian military might [MIGHT!] be the more logical villain in such a scenario - they are not the only possible one. It even could be NATO or others. False flag ops can be very strange indeed - just remember 9-11. And remember 'starwars' - which was the ability to fire things from platforms in orbit - so one may not need a plane or a SAM - although a space platform won't need chaff..... Also, the purported 'tapes' or doctored tapes are suspicious - but could be false flag, or false-false flag or false-false-false flag, or other.

The problem is there is not yet access to the wreckage. Apparently, late yesterday an OSCE group of experts came to examine the wreckage and were at first allowed some brief access of a few hours - and then forced to leave by the separatist forces there. Today, the bodies are just rotting and no experts are yet present as of mid-morning Ukraine time. [N.B. several independent reports state that the bodies seem to not have signs of blood. This is likely due to blood 'boiling off' due to rapid decompression at high altitude. One family had a body break through their roof and crash into the kitchen. They specifically reported how strange there were no bloodstains.] The relatives of those killed are soon heading to Ukraine - but I doubt if they'll soon get to identify and take home their dead....as the bodies first need to be marked, photographed, mapped, injuries examined, taken to a morgue in a larger city, and then identified - all in an active war zone. Additionally, it seems not all bodies can be accounted for yet. Some might never be found, and some will only be parts identified by DNA. Some were likely blown to smithereens and/or burned.

It could turn out that what/who caused this event is forever clouded in claims and counter-claims - fog.

[Peter Presland]

Oh please....if this isn't an invention for one of many reasons, they could have lost blood with the depressurization of the plane. Everyone saw them get on the plane fine and the pilots certainly weren't dead nor flying a hearse.

I wouldn't be quite so dismissive. This direct from yesterday's Strelkov briefing:

July 18, 2014 Information Regarding the Boeing from Igor Strelkov - regarding Boeing 777, Flight MH17:
Igor Strelkov: According to the information received from the people who collected the corpses, a large number of the corpses are "not fresh" these are people who died a few days ago. I cannot vouch for complete accuracy of this information of course, we will have to wait for conclusions from forensic specialists.
- "Somebody of course must have been piloting this plane, which, to boot, would be impossible to leave. The theory that the plane was full of dead people is, of course, breathtaking; however, it does not seem to make sense."
Igor Strelkov: First of all, not all the people in the plane were dead prior to the fall.
Second, a large quantity of medication, including blood serum and so forth, was found in the airplane, which is not characteristic of a regular airliner. It looks like there was some kind of special medical cargo on board.
Third, I do not insist on anything (for now). It's just that only moments ago I spoke with two individuals who personally gathered the corpses after the crash (both of them are from Shakhtersk and arrived at the scene less than half an hour after the catastrophe). I am writing exactly what they told me. They emphasized that a large number of the corpses were "completely bloodless" it's as if their blood clotted long before the catastrophe. They also remarked that there was an overwhelming putrid corpse stench, which was also noted by many locals a smell like that could not have formed in half an hour in any weather, let alone in the cloudy, temperate weather we had yesterday.
Fourth, while I am usually very suspicious of any "conspiracy theories" myself, but the 18 of our fighters that were poisoned with chemical weapons at their positions in Semyonovka, the executions of the militiamen's family members and all other "small joys of Ukie patriots" have convinced me that the Ukrainian government is capable of any villainy.
The pilots were, of course, perfectly alive the entire cabin (and the front part is well preserved) was literally bathed in their blood.

Source

I have followed Strelkov's briefings closely for months now and know him as a man to be reckoned with. His words are always calm and measured - not unlike Putin's actually.

As he makes clear, it is too early to be definitive about what it really means but it looks like there really were a significant number of corpses present on board that plane.

For an even more bizarre speculation about what it DOES mean, try this from Yoichi Shimatsu , who turned out to pretty accurate about Edward Snowden's real status and how he ended up in Moscow.