Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live

[Peter Lemkin]

One expert pointed out two interesting anomalies on the ground. The stranger of the two is the photo of a collection of passports; not impossible, but highly unlikely they would be so quickly collected from bodies and assembled - or that they would all be so intact. The other more grizzly to think about is the rather intact bodies shown on some video - an indication of the plane being intact until later in its descent - somewhat inconsistent with the more likely scenarios - and hard to tell what that means. One [unverified] photo shows a plane headed nose-first toward the ground, intact body - only the wing on fire and an engine missing; possible, but also inconsistent with a BUK shoot-down. A full and neutral investigation is needed to determine what happened; until then it is all spin and speculation - with more than a dash of disinformation.

[Anthony Thorne]

I didn't see this coming.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/ju...shed-plane

AIDS CONFERENCE SAYS 100 RESEARCHERS MAY HAVE BEEN ON CRASHED PLANE

As many as 100 of the world's leading HIV/Aids researchers and advocates may have been on the Malaysia Airlines flight that crashed in Ukraine, in what has been described as a "devastating" blow to efforts to tackle the virus.

Delegates to a plenary session held ahead of the Aids 2014 conference were told that email exchanges showed about 100 attendees were booked on the MH17 flight.
The plane was downed in eastern Ukraine by what the US and Australian governments have described as a surface-to-air missile.

There was no official confirmation of the number of researchers on board.

There were no survivors among the 298 people on the flight, which was bound for Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam. The Aids 2014 conference, due to start on Sunday, is being held in Melbourne.

"There's a huge feeling of sadness here, people are in floods of tears in the corridors," Clive Aspin, a veteran HIV researcher who attended the pre-conference plenary session in Sydney, told Guardian Australia. "These people were the best and the brightest, the ones who had dedicated their whole careers to fighting this terrible virus. It's devastating."

Prof. Richard Boyd, director of the Monash Immunology and Stem Cell Laboratories, told Guardian Australia he was "gutted" by the losses.

"There were some serious HIV leaders on that plane," he said. "This will have ramifications globally because whenever you lose a leader in any field, it has an impact. That knowledge is irreplaceable.

"We've lost global leaders and also some bright young people who were coming through. It's a gut-wrenching loss. I was involved in the aftermath of 9/11 in New York and it brings back that level of catastrophe.

"But the Aids community is very close-knit, like a family. They will unite and this will galvanise people to strive harder to find a breakthrough. Let's hope that, out of this madness, there will be new hope for the world."

Trevor Stratton, an HIV/Aids consultant, told the ABC: "The cure for AIDS may have been on that plane, we just don't know. You can't just help but wonder about the kind of expertise on that plane."

A number of leading scientists, including a former president of the International AIDS Society (IAS) who has led HIV research efforts since 1983, are believed to be among the dead.

Organisers of Aids 2014, which is set to welcome about 14,000 delegates from around the world, said they were unable to officially confirm the number of people on MH17 who were due to attend the conference. The organisation said in a statement: "The IAS is hearing unconfirmed reports that some of our friends and colleagues were on board the flight and if that is the case this is truly a sad day."

The president of the IAS, Françoise Barré-Sinoussi, told a prearranged event in Canberra that the deaths "will be a great loss to the HIV/Aids communities. If confirmed, it would be a terrible loss for all of us. I have no words really to try to express my sadness; I feel totally devastated if it is confirmed."

IAS said the conference would go ahead as scheduled. Former US president Bill Clinton and activist Bob Geldof are due to speak.

The executive director of the Australian Federation of Aids Organisations, Rob Lake, said: "This morning's news is absolutely tragic and will be felt throughout the conference and worldwide.

"The people we have lost have played critical roles in the global fight against HIV."

[Magda Hassan]

A huge loss to the scientific research community.

[Danny Jarman]

Wow! A nice hattrick for "them".

1. False flag to shift public opinion on Russia to accept some kind of further action

2. Aids researchers possibly close to creating a cure die by the hundreds

3. Malaysia's flagship airline goes out of business - that will teach them for going after Bush and Blair in the courts.

EXCEPT...as seen in Paul Rigby's post...it looks more like an own goal. Oops.

[Peter Lemkin]

Another interesting [?] item. About 100 of the passengers were AIDS Experts going to a conference on AIDS in Australia. May not have any bearing on why this plane was targeted - but anything might be relevant. It also is distressing that no competent authority is at the crash site. Emergency responders are making the bodies and body parts with crosses, but it seems it will be several to many days before any investigative group is decided upon and allowed to enter and search the debris. The bodies can't be long left in an open field in summer. If not touched or moved, the plane debris will contain almost the same information later as now....weather and time can degrade some evidence a little.

[David Guyatt]

Wow! A nice hattrick for "them".

1. False flag to shift public opinion on Russia to accept some kind of further action

2. Aids researchers possibly close to creating a cure die by the hundreds

3. Malaysia's flagship airline goes out of business - that will teach them for going after Bush and Blair in the courts.

EXCEPT...as seen in Paul Rigby's post...it looks more like an own goal. Oops.

Danny, can you provide more on the Blair/Bush Malaysian Airlines court case please?

[Danny Jarman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuala_Lumpu...Commission

My mistake if there's a misunderstanding - I meant Malaysia could be being punished by having their flagship airline go out of business

But of course this is a minor detail compared to the other two points

[Peter Lemkin]

In the hard-to-bear-news department: One family who lost several members on the MAL that disappeared, lost two more on this MAL!

On another matter, Malaysia did anger the USA and their pals by hosting a very important 9-11-01 research conference.

[David Guyatt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuala_Lumpu...Commission

My mistake if there's a misunderstanding - I meant Malaysia could be being punished by having their flagship airline go out of business

But of course this is a minor detail compared to the other two points

Thanks Danny, and no worries. I was looking to tie down why Malaysian Airlines seems to have been picked on. The Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission makes sense to me. It may not be the only reason or the main one, but who knows at this stage of the game? My initial thought was that someone out there wanted to financially ruin the airline, but this makes far more sense --- punishment.

[Paul Rigby]

Part 1:

http://williambowles.info/2014/07/18/eme...leb-bazov/


Part 2:

http://williambowles.info/2014/07/18/bre...leb-bazov/