Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live

[Danny Jarman]

Looks like case closed already

What a shoddy job...

Interested now to see how this plays out in the media...

[Charles Keeble]

using this 'distraction' as a kind of cover,

Anything that provides an excuse for saturation bombing coverage gets used as a distraction for something.

[T Harry Evans]

Wow! A nice hattrick for "them".

1. False flag to shift public opinion on Russia to accept some kind of further action

2. Aids researchers possibly close to creating a cure die by the hundreds

3. Malaysia's flagship airline goes out of business - that will teach them for going after Bush and Blair in the courts.

EXCEPT...as seen in Paul Rigby's post...it looks more like an own goal. Oops.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/28b699ae-0d9f-...abdc0.html

Tony Blair, the former British prime minister, has been hired to advise a BP-led consortium on the export of natural gas from Azerbaijan to Europe, in a sign of the efforts now being made by western companies to reduce reliance on Russian supplies....

[Albert Doyle]

Washington Post says pro-Russian rebels shot down the plane. Whatever the truth, keep in mind that while the Post is trying to portray Russia as an evil empire that the US also shot down a large jet full of civilians in Iran in 1988. Also, while the Post prints in large headlines that "US Intelligence" discovered evidence of a missile shootdown half way around the world it was somehow unable to do the same thing in 1996 right at home with TWA 800:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/miss...story.html

[David Guyatt]

Almost all of the western media are running with the "Putin is to blame" angle to the story. Sky News has run with a headline "Mystery Over Who "Shot Down" Malaysian Plane - but there is no mystery involved as the story itself just blames Russia and quotes the UK rep at the UN openly blaming Russia.

It's all rather like watching sheep being herded into a pen by a dog, so supine are they at taking an independently-minded and factual approach to geopolitical news stories. Whatever the goals of the US and NATO are, the western media simply shape stories accordingly, in order to mind-bomb the public into emotional compliance.

[Paul Rigby]

[video=youtube_share;28MrASx-RiM]http://youtu.be/28MrASx-RiM[/video]

The CIA-SBU lash (lyashko?) up spelt out:

This could almost be a smoking gun of the false flag attack with respect to LH 17. Some five hours after the loss of LH 17, the Ukrainian Security Service published a recording of alleged pro-Russian military officers led by commander Bes, who is based in Gorlovka (Horlivka), allegedly confirming that they shot down the Malaysian Boeing 777. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwtxBA1m9x8 The video was uploaded about 5 hours after the time of the plane's crash--20:16 PM local time.

The video tape claims that the call took place at 16:40 local time. But the plane was lost between 17:15-20 local time. The timing might be put in order if one assumes that, for some strange reason, the Ukrainian secret service decided to put their Moscow Time instead of the time in Donetsk. But this seems to be a stretch and does not appear to be warranted. It does not make sense for Ukrainian secret police to mark the time of their videos according to the time in Moscow.

Moreover, and even more importantly, as the log of the video shows (see the photo), it was actually made the day before on June 16 at 19:10 PM.

The first alleged recordings are at 16:40 and 16:33. Apparently local time. At the alleged 16:40 (still more than half an hour before the plane was supposed to crash), a person in the taped conversation claims that the plane was shot down "about half an hour ago." At 17:10 the next call is made that is telling about allegedly finding a first casualty.

Now, it is true that legendary commander Bes is based in Gorlovka. But Gorlovka is some 30 miles from the crash site in Grabovo. A Ukrainian officer was later quoted that the self-evidence has allegedly a battery of Buk missiles 15 miles way from the crash site, which still put it some 15 miles away from Gorlovka. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17...97014.html

According to the tape, the site which was supposed to fire the missile is identified as a "block-post of cossaks" in Chernokhyne near Debaltzeve, Lugansk, which is about half way between Horlivka and Grabovo but further to the east away from the line between these two places. But blockposts are not exactly positions to be equipped with Buk missiles.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Chornu...ebd586e188

Now what is also interesting is that July 17 Lh 17 flight was the FIRST ever flight which Ukrainian air controllers diverted directly over the Donetsk People's Republic away from its usual routes which avoided both the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics either to the south or to the north. Not this time. On the previous routes of LH 17 see here (scroll down the page): http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/29...etsya.html

Furthermore, Ukrainian air controllers made sure that the flight goes directly--precisely over Gorlovka (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17...ight-mh-17), which happens to have the legendary self-defense commander Bes with whom the Ukrainian secret services have a whole history of especially acute animosity and accounts to settle. His name or codename is also one of the best known and most recognizable among the self-defense commanders right after Strelkov, Babay (who is now away), Mozgavoy and Khodakovsky. So, clearly, the Ukrainian junta also wanted to pin the blame not only on the resistance as a whole, but also on a specific person with an established name and fame.

And what are the chances that out of all the places Ukrainian air controllers would send the plane just over Gorlovka and right by a place where they claim to have a knowledge about Buk missiles being stationed there? (Can anyone find any Buk missiles near Debaltzeve?)

From the trajectory is then also clear (unless self-defense did have a functioning Buk missile system and, despite the expertise which is needed for operating such a complex system, they could not distinguish and recognize a big civilian plane) that LH 17 was almost certainly not shot by a Buk missile, but that it, indeed, had to be a Ukrainian fighter jet some 10-20 miles south-east of Gorlovka.

In fact, self-defense has its own tape of a conversation of an unidentified Ukrainian jet pilot in the area exactly at the time when LH was shot down. It is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d65Adj4s5k

Thus, if this was, as it looks, a set-up and a false flag, special operation, one may also ask what plan, if any, there was about with respect the place where the aircraft would be crashing down. It is possible that the idea was that a successful hit would make the jet disintegrate in the air. However, with a big plane like this one, that's not likely. In this respect, another good question to ask is how far is the crash site from the nearest Ukrainian position. That would also be good to know.

Another interesting and relevant piece to the puzzle of LH 17 downed south-east of Donetsk: on July 15, the Kiev regime suspended its flights over east Ukraine after losing a plane. But then, in the afternoon of July 16, Ukrainian troops resumed flights of military aircraft over Donetsk and Lugansk, and especially over Saur-Mogila, which is relatively close to LH 17 crash site, a spokesman for the Ukrainian national security service reported. The flights were suspended on Tuesday after the downing of a transport plane in Lugansk Region. The resumption was confirmed by militia sources, which said airstrikes were being delivered near Saur-Mogila Hill in Donetsk region. The next day, July 18, LH 17 was directed by Ukrainian air controllers over the very zone where Ukrainian military aircraft were operating. http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-army-operation-680/

Source: https://www.facebook.com/defendnovorossi...2782737100

[Paul Rigby]

This appears to be pretty conclusive: MH17 shot down by Ukie fighter

http://guruinterneta.livejournal.com/32590.html

Pin warhead! Missiles USED to hit air targets use a special warhead, which is only characterisitc for them with very specific traces. It consists of a bundle of sharpened pins, which are sometimes welded together (sometimes not). An opening charge is installed behind this bundle, this is basically what the "pin and shrapnel" warhead consists of. When it approaches the target at the minimal distance the warhead explodes the opening charge and this bundle of pins flies to the target at almost cosmic speed. When hitting the target such pin - only by its kinetic energy - is capable to shoot through the plane destroying the internal structure of the aircraft and completely crashing the on-board equipment. The pin kinetics is so powerful that it can even split the titanium spar in halves. Such warhead has one big advantage - the missile does not need to be perfectly accurate - it explodes before contacting the target and the pins are shot in the direction of the airplane na cone. Even if only 2-3% of these pins hit the target, the plane is doomed - a hole in the wing or fuselage, or simply damaged cladding of the plane flying at trans-sonic speed the enormous relative airflow will destroy the damaged wing up to the very spar in less than a minute. If there is a dozen of such holes - there is simply no chance for anything.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6158[/ATTACH]

But this is not the main point. Pin and shrapnel warheads are mainly used on air-to-air missiles because of their compact size. The anti-aircraft defense systems prefer to use high explosive and shrapnel warheads, because in a number of cases they are more efficient than pin and shrapnel ones. The picture we have here shows cladding damage characteristic for pin and shrapnel warheads. High explosive and shrapnel warhead damage looks different. This means that no BUK system hit this aircraft. Here we are dealing with either R-27 Topor or R-73 missiles, which Ukrainians have plenty of and which are installed on MIG-29 and SU-27

[Paul Rigby]

Did Ukraine Fabricate Evidence to Frame Russia for MH17 Shoot Down?

Alleged conversation between rebel leader & Russian commander attracts suspicion

By Paul Joseph Watson
Global Research, July 18, 2014
Infowars

[video=youtube_share;RMgIpC-bCfQ]http://youtu.be/RMgIpC-bCfQ[/video]

[Lauren Johnson]

From The Saker, here is Part One of a long discussion dissecting the MH 17 false flag operation.

[Paul Rigby]

[video=youtube_share;PrFCqQvBzf4]http://youtu.be/PrFCqQvBzf4[/video]

What makes the events described by Carlos so plausible is, for me, the use of the SBU, the CIA's primary cloak in Ukraine, to snatch the evidence of Ukie fighter responsibility for the shoot down.