The 2008 Economic Debacle: Accident and/or Designed?

[Lauren Johnson]

Regarding the "Dreaming with Brics" .pdf strikes me as a neo-liberal piece of crap meant to seduce various governments into debt slavery.

[Magda Hassan]

Regarding the "Dreaming with Brics" .pdf strikes me as a neo-liberal piece of crap meant to seduce various governments into debt slavery.

Hey! It's a Goldman Sach's publication. It's what they do. ::drevil::

[David Guyatt]

Clearly, the world is now changing very rapidly and new banking/economic systems are developing that are outside their control and jurisdiction.

The Quigley quote summarizes the long term, back channel CFR end game. I interpret what you are saying, David, is that this project is coming to and end and was being seriously challenged back in 2008 such that "they" decided on the "nuclear option" of grabbing all they could get.

Would you mind saying more about these "new banking/economic systems" back seven or eight years ago that would cause them to panic? I don't see them myself? Now? Eurasia.

I would Lauren, but my theory is still very hazy really. Plus I didn't have access to the long term projections they would've had available to them. My premise is based - almost entirely - on the simple and obvious fact that everyone sat still and permitted the banking system (their pride and joy as I said) to reach a point of destruction. Assuming some of these people are smart as whips, they must've known that the massive leveraging they were engaged in were unsustainable (and had the Savings & Loan heist of the 1980's as an example). They must've seen the incredible debts that were being accrued. The US today can never, ever repay it's debt mountain, which continues to grow enormously. Moreover, the financial markets are no longer "free" (assuming they ever were really?) but strictly controlled, as witnessed by the gold market for example, where the price of the metal is artificially kept low by what used to be called the "Plunge Protection Team" of earlier administrations.

What happened, I think, is that the wealth of the next 50/100 years was sucked out of the system, and you have to ask why this was allowed to happen. Was it simply blind greed as we are constantly told? Maybe. But if not then it was planned, and so I am looking at the possibility of the latter and trying to make some sense of it.

On Quigley, it is, I think, important to remember that the plan operated for the best part of 100 years - and was largely successful too. The wealth of the world was in "their" hands. But with BRICS and others (like Saddam deciding to sell his oil for the Euro not the dollar - a decision that probably got him hanged) coming into being, the world is slowly changing. And, for me, you can't put the Jack back in the box.

Plus the Bush family, it has been said, by Al Martin in one of his books, (The Conspirators" I think - Uri Dowbenko sent me a .pdf of it to read prior to publication and I was in contact with Martin for awhile - and I have to say I didn't entirely buy into him but...) the author reveals the Bush family had a "nuclear option" to fall back on in the event that everything went belly up about their widespread criminality.

[Lauren Johnson]

What happened, I think, is that the wealth of the next 50/100 years was sucked out of the system, and you have to ask why this was allowed to happen. Was it simply blind greed as we are constantly told? Maybe. But if not then it was planned, and so I am looking at the possibility of the latter and trying to make some sense of it.

This is question is not an easy one at all, in my mind.

I have to sit down and really think this through.

But the trouble I have with your reasoning, David, is that it seems too linear. We are having to understand old power centers who are more like magicians, in a sense. They don't study reality so much as they create reality. They think in terms of bringing into being what is not by destroying and refashioning what is. It's a global experiment in alchemy. Horrifying. I think of it as spiritual warfare practiced on those who have lost any sense of spirit, and are, therefore, helpless.

Actually, David, you and Jan K. and others here are my instructors in this way of thinking.

One part of my model would be say that unleashing chaos can have profoundly negative consequences, which can later be turned to advantage.

An example. We have documented here how psychedelics, first studied for the mind control properties, were introduced into the general culture as means of creating social conflict and discord. A negative consequence is that it unleashed very powerful anti-war and anti-capitalist movements that were indeed very effective and growing in influence. These "negative" consequences had to be cleaned up by infiltration, disinformation, bribery, blackmail, and of course murder. Now the populace has learned to love their chains.

More later.

[David Guyatt]

Ah, but I do always try to see the Collective Shadow at work, Lauren. I often fail, but I try. But to be perfectly honest, I have found that subject to be not generally well received and have, therefore, more or less ceased discussing it. And miss those discussions, too.

In the above outlined tentative theory my thinking was focused solely on the - more or less, the conscious - thought processes of elites who concluded the end was nigh and thus deciding to rob everyone blind while they could. Greed is a major shadow quality -- a case of me, me me, me first. I need. I deserve. I want...

This is such a prevalent thought process today that we don't really even discuss it any more. Perhaps we should.

We are all, to a greater or lesser degree anyway, contaminated by it due to our own shadow qualities that daily stream through us and which we remain consciously oblivious to. And I do really mean oblivious. We are dismally unaware of this other reality. If we were to concentrate our focus on where and how our own thoughts arise, we will often find that they're not our thoughts at all, but originate from somewhere outside of ourselves and simply inhabit us when they touch us. We, in turn, because we are not conscious of this mechanism, make the understandable assumption that every thought we have originated in ourselves. Fools!

Mea culpa!

The question you and I have both discussed before is whether the wizards actually run the show or whether the show runs them? My conclusion is the latter. We as a species just are not conscious enough to be anything but bystanders to the great matters that have us in their grip and which determine our fate. Due to our perennial absence.

In the grand scheme of things, the grand scheme plays out.

As you say it is not an easy subject at all to get to grips with, and it is very easy to develop split thinking about it all. In a real sense having different subject matters, different folders (banking, black operations, geopolitics etc etc) and different members discussing these different things only adds to the general schizophrenia we all live with.

I hope this clarifies the subject a little.

Must go now, those men in white coats are coming...

[Lauren Johnson]

Ahh, the Collective Shadow. Your post reminds me that indeed the discussions here on the CS in fact reminded me of my theological tradition (Lutheran) and helped me integrate it into an understanding the world as it is.

Current studies on Luther now see him as critiquing the early capitalism struggling to grasp what is now apparent to many -- capitalism is a disaster and profoundly demonic. Of course, "capitalism" as a concept did not exist nor did most of the conceptual tools available to us today. His excoriation of the Jews, for example, from this view, was a continuation of the centuries long demonization of a people by Christians mixed in with his view of a system based on greed. Luther saw the growth of system that was deeply in violation of his view of human life: humans are always going to be possessed by something or someone. It's just the way we are. We therefore need to be possessed by Christ.

And we are at the core of Luther's thought. Since we are inevitably human, we are always going to be inventing strategies to avoid God -- this is what is called Luther's theology of the cross. A modern innovation of this thinking that might be helpful would be Alcoholics Anonymous, in which alcoholics confess their powerlessness over alcohol turn their life over to their higher power to live in a daily life free of the power of alcohol -- a perfect analog.

So, the collective unconscious.

The question you and I have both discussed before is whether the wizards actually run the show or whether the show runs them? My conclusion is the latter. We as a species just are not conscious enough to be anything but bystanders to the great matters that have us in their grip and which determine our fate. Due to our perennial absence.

From what I have said, I agree 100%.

My interest is how the Collective Unconscious intersects and becomes consciously embodied and yet remains hidden. Somehow, I posit that this embodiment operates today with intentionality and planning. I guess that is what I am looking for in the 2008 collapse and the next one to come linked with war and/or "terrorist attacks."

With this model, I suggest that the people who were tasked with blowing the thing up came close to crashing the plane, just managed to make an emergency landing. Great job guys.

There have been so many benefits! I think one of them has been the conviction that markets need to be managed, read manipulated, as a matter of national security. Another one is the weakening of national and local sovereignty to allow asset stripping practices. So many more.

The question: is there a wizard class that subtly manipulates the general direction without micromanaging the process. Tentatively, Yes. Are they the masters of the Collective Unconscious? No. But if they are Satanists, they know it. Gasp. Did I say that?

Lord Voldemort's power is increasing and the muggle world is experiencing the gathering storm, without a clue.

[Lauren Johnson]

Just to make sure that I do not belittle Luther's views on the Jews, here are a few quotes "The Jews and Their Lies"

"First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them.

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed.

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb.

Fifth, I advise that safe conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews… Let they stay at home.

Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping… Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest.

Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow… For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting…

I seem to remember him advocating their extermination, but I can't find the quote. So don't get me wrong.

[Lauren Johnson]

What be a Jungian interpretation of this nightmarish image?

[Lauren Johnson]

Artemis/Cybele/Diana

[R.K. Locke]

Semiramis, Queen of Babylon.

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