Health Insurance

[Martin White]

Certain political parties in the UK are advocating a US-style health insurance system instead of our National Health Service. This scares the crap out of me.

I'm currently being treated for cancer here, and the treatment isn't costing me a penny. This is just as well as I haven't been able to work since the end of February, and my wife has cut her hours by about 60% in order to be with me and drive me to hospital etc.

Here's why it scares the crap out of me. So far I have had 2 CT scans, a CT-PET scan, an MRI scan, three cycles of chemotherapy using Bleomycin, Cisplatin and Etoposide, two fine needle biopsies of my lymph nodes, an operation to remove a testicle, and somewhere in excess of four weeks as an inpatient in the hospital. I've also been taken to hospital by ambulance twice.

The thought of what that lot would have cost my family in terms of insurance deductibles makes my hair go white. Or at least it would if I hadn't lost it all.

However the really scary part if yet to come.

I was offered another job, so I gave my resignation and my employment was scheduled to end on February 28th. My new job was due to begin on March 2nd. I had a Doctor's appointment at the hospital on February 25th for some stomach pains I'd been having. I was admitted to hospital for a CT scan on that day and I was told I had cancer on February 26th. I was told that I would be unable to start my new job on the following week.

I'm presuming that under a US-style employment-based health insurance scheme, any cover that I had would have ended on February 28th , meaning that I would have had to pay for all of those treatments in their entirety. I could have sold my house and made my family homeless, but what if that wasn't enough?

My question to American members is this: Why is a large part of America so firmly against a centralised, fully funded health system? How would you have funded my scenario above if it happened to you?

[Peter Lemkin]

I'm American but don't currently live in the USA, so best to leave to others the detailed questions you ask...however, you don't want 'American style' health insurance...as it is health insecurity only. It is very complex, but many Americans are not covered AT ALL [even those employed] and more are only partly covered and either pay punitive 'co-payments' or can easily reach the limit of coverage and have to pay out of pocket beyond that. Add to this, that most un- or under-insured in the USA have to resort to going to emergency rooms at hospitals and waiting all day - hoping to be seen at all, now hospitals have in most places the legal right to charge for fees and collect on it by taking your property and often do. It is a nightmare equal to third-world nations and nothing any sane developed nation would downgrade to from a National Healthcare Program. The only ones who benefit are doctors and the medical-hospital complex [and bribed politicians]...those that suffer are all but the rich who don't need insurance.

[Magda Hassan]

My question to American members is this: Why is a large part of America so firmly against a centralised, fully funded health system?

It's the capitalism. Their vitriolic hatred for any thing communistic for this insane lot, and a universal public health system free at point of service is most definitely considered communism, is like a religious mania for them. It is really quite insane and flies in the face of all logic and rationality let alone compassion. There is no other explanation.

How would you have funded my scenario above if it happened to you?

I am not an American fortunately but if I were unfortunate enough to be one I'd have to leave. Really. I couldn't stand to live in such a place. Uninsured people just cannot fund their health care out of their own pockets. And the health insurance is a scam. I suppose there may be individual doctors who have some social conscience and may be some clinics but I doubt they would have the resources to cope with the huge demand especially for complex health issues. Nor should we, as a society, rely on the kindness of strangers.

There is a push to re-privatise public health in the UK and here in Australia also and other places. It must be fought every inch of the way. The US alternative we already had and have already rejected and must never go back to. The TTP and TTIP and TISA are all part of this corporatisation over our health systems. Not just our health systems. Every aspect of our societies will be corporately controlled. They want it all and we will be their serfs.

Sorry to hear about your cancer. I hope things are going well for you now. As a society it is right that we care for each other. It make it a society worth living in.

[Magda Hassan]

...however, you don't want 'American style' health insurance...

Of course none of us want that but some one is pushing for it. Follow the money.

...now hospitals have in most places the legal right to charge for fees and collect on it by taking your property and often do. It is a nightmare equal to third-world nations and nothing any sane developed nation would downgrade to from a National Healthcare Program.

I don't want a business relationship with my doctor and most doctors don't want that either. That is doctors who want to be doctors and have an interest in providing health care. Of course they want to have a good income. But a doctor will have a very good income in the public health system and it has massive administration savings for doctors compared to going it alone. In bad old days here the biggest cause of personal bankruptcy was unpaid medical bills with all its attendant home forclosures and family homelessness and breakups and suicides. Why would anyone ever consider it an option to go back?

[Peter Lemkin]

...however, you don't want 'American style' health insurance...

Of course none of us want that but some one is pushing for it. Follow the money.

...now hospitals have in most places the legal right to charge for fees and collect on it by taking your property and often do. It is a nightmare equal to third-world nations and nothing any sane developed nation would downgrade to from a National Healthcare Program.

I don't want a business relationship with my doctor and most doctors don't want that either. That is doctors who want to be doctors and have an interest in providing health care. Of course they want to have a good income. But a doctor will have a very good income in the public health system and it has massive administration savings for doctors compared to going it alone. In bad old days here the biggest cause of personal bankruptcy was unpaid medical bills with all its attendant home forclosures and family homelessness and breakups and suicides. Why would anyone ever consider it an option to go back?

Lack of funds for medical care [even among the 'insured'] in America is the GREATEST reason for bankruptcy and homelessness, desperate fall into poverty, bar none.

As for the few doctors with compassion, I can speak from experience. My father was a dentist and never turned away a patient for lack of funds. He often treated the poor and asked them to pay what they could or to pay when they could..but he never bothered them again if they did not. For this our home often got threatening phone calls to him [from other dentists - as we recognized some of the voices]. However, this is the great exception. Once when I was very poor and had zero medical insurance [about a third of Americans have none or totally inadequate], I went to a dentist in pain [my father was then dead] and asked if I could pay off his huge bill over several months. He refused to even treat me enough to be out of pain. When it comes to cancer et al. [and America has the highest costs per medical service of any nation - and that will come to any nation that tries to adopt its medical system!], costs are astronomical and most insured soon reach their yearly limit and face financial ruin or their health getting worse due more to poverty than their medical condition per se. Americans used to go to Mexico and Canada to buy cheaper drugs - now that is illegal and you'll be stopped at the border even if you have a copy of the doctors prescription; the medication taken or you subject to arrest. Ditto buying cheaper foreign drugs via internet. It is corporate fascism come to medical care....stay away...fight it! Even 'Obamacare' is little improvement and was written by those who stand to benefit most from the system staying the same, but with a 'gentler' appearance.

Once in the USA [50's and 60's...into early 70's], yes, if you were employed by a LARGE company, the company paid for health insurance. No more!....most won't have any coverage for their employees - or minimal or you pay half and they pay half [if you're lucky]...and if they fire you, let you go, or go out of business...you loose your health care and pension, both......the American model of crapitalism is SO bad...and getting worse. The UK would be insane to go that route. I'm well aware there are pushes in that direction.....the populace had best learn what it really would mean!!!

Health and health care is NOT a right in America - it is a privilege few can afford! [our tax money goes to killing, not healing]

[Drew Phipps]

At the moment, under "Obamacare" health insurance is "portable," meaning it just follows you and is not employer dependent. Also, you cannot be denied insurance for a pre-existing condition. Even though the US SCt. just ruled in favor of Obamacare, it is unlikely to survive long past the next election.

However, even under the old system, if your symptoms, or your diagnosis, started while the old health insurance was in effect, the insurance company would have been still on the hook.

The deductibles are still a hard hurdle.

[Magda Hassan]

I've never understood how some one can have insurance, even comprehensive level coverage and yet they still have to pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars out of their own pockets in addition to what the insurance company pays. Insurance does not cover the costs and seems a total con in itself.

[Peter Lemkin]

I've never understood how some one can have insurance, even comprehensive level coverage and yet they still have to pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars out of their own pockets in addition to what the insurance company pays. Insurance does not cover the costs and seems a total con in itself.

Those are 'cutely' named as 'co-payments' and often have a sliding scale [not always a 'progressive' one]; also, insurance contracts have limits on various things: hospitalization, medication, doctors, diagnostics, surgery, etc., et al....and after you reach the limit [often very easily reached] you pay much more or you pay all from then on out...and could likely loose your insurance under many circumstances. It is a con game!.......one in which the insurance companies and mostly private hospitals are getting rich...a lot of specialist doctors too - but not all. There are many good articles and books about the abysmal medical and medical insurance system in the USA. It is always said that the USA has the 'best medical care level in the World'. This is ONLY true for the very rich - for the average American you'd do much better in Europe or even some developing nations. Look at our child mortality rates; life expectancy; other health statistics...the American Health Care system is very sick - perhaps terminally so.

[Martin White]

This is the real problem with life in America. I would love to come and live in America because there are so many things to enjoy - but the lack of a proper healthcare system is the main thing that puts me off.

I once heard an argument - from an "ordinary" worker - "Why should I pay [through higher taxes], because I am employed, for healthcare for some bum who can't be bothered to get a job?" Is that still a common view among voters in the US?

What I don't understand is: don't most Americans realise that at any moment they could lose their homes because of a medical condition? Is it 1 in 3 get cancer now? The other obvious point is this; how can even the most comfortably off Americans sleep at night knowing that people are being denied healthcare based on their ability to pay? Or even that a family has to trade between health and a home?

[Magda Hassan]

....also, insurance contracts have limits on various things: hospitalization, medication, doctors, diagnostics, surgery, etc., et al....and after you reach the limit [often very easily reached] you pay much more or you pay all from then on out...and could likely loose your insurance under many circumstances. It is a con game!.......one in which the insurance companies and mostly private hospitals are getting rich...a lot of specialist doctors too - but not all.

I remember a friend telling me when he was on the run from police to lay low he booked himself in to a private hospital of the type for middle class mental health difficulties drug with drawls and such. A pretty comfortable place with just a couple of group therapy sessions a week, swimming pool, private rooms, colour tvs, restaurant quality dining etc. He was there for several months 'recovering' . His insurance ran out and he didn't have access to any cash by this stage and didn't want to yet risk leaving the premises to go find others with money so he sweet talked a doctor into paying to renewing his insurance and he was going to be making so much more from him if he continued staying there even accounting for the outlay.....that's the way it works.