27-01-2016, 06:03 PM
Thanks very much everyone...
While there are many, many Zfilm alteration threads none deal with the most important event of that day and the note which accompanies it.
It is a handwritten note from Dallas SS SA Max Phillips (who was also involved with the Postal Money Order charade) that we learn a different tale of originals and copies.
It was accepted at the time that Zapruder kept his "original" and one "best" copy which was shown over the weekend.
The pertinent part of Cris Scally's timeline is: http://www.jfklancer.com/zapruder/Tabula...ology.html
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]
[TD]Zapruder & Schwartz return to Kodak with original and three copies. Copies developed and perforated with nos. 0185, 0186 and 0187
[/TD]
[TD]Trask, 115-6; Wrone, 26; Zavada Study 1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[TD="width: 413"]Zapruder & Schwartz leave Kodak, and drive to DPD HQ in search of Sorrels. Sorrels asks them to take 2 copies to agent Max Phillips at Secret Service office on Ervay Street
[/TD]
[TD="width: 275"]Horne, 1199; Trask, 119-120; Wrone, 26-7; Schwartz/SFM interview
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 92, bgcolor: #CCCCCC"]
[TD="width: 413"]Phillips sends one copy to Secret Service Chief Rowley in Washington, and retains other copy (0186) for Sorrels
[/TD]
[TD="width: 275"]CD87, 66; Wrone, 28, 279-280; Thompson "Six Seconds…", 311-2
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Appears they found Sorrels with the "master" and 3 copies and were told to bring 2 copies to Phillips.
the 6th Floor timeline is a little different: http://www.jfk.org/the-collections/abrah...-timeline/ in that Max Phillips is not mentioned at all ??? The 6th Floor has Zap bringing a copy to be flown to "FBI INVESTIGATORS IN DC"
11/22 Con't....
6:00 pm
Zapruder and Schwartz returned to Kodak to have the prints processed and made available for projection.
10:00 pm
Schwartz and Zapruder delivered two prints to Sorrels. Sorrels asked them to take one to the Dallas Naval Air Station in nearby Grand Prairie, where a jet was immediately dispatched to take the print to FBI investigators in Washington, D.C.
Does this now consitute yet another copy? Sorrels has 0186. (1) Zap has "master" and "best copy" (2 & 3)
The "THIRD PRINT" is forwarded to Chief Rowley NOT the FBI and Phillips says Sorrels has 2 prints still in his possession. (4 & 5)
This is an 8mm film so at least one copy (or the original) is split.
From Scally's timeline we learn, with references, what occurred
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Nov 25:
Afternoon
[/TD]
[TD="width: 413"]Stolley and Zapruder agree sale of all rights to film to Life. Dan Rather may have been present for part of meeting. Stolley leaves with the last of the first-day copies, which Zapruder retained since Nov 22.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 275"]Horne, 1202; Wrone, 35-6, 283-5; Trask, 146; Mack e-mail to author, May 14, 2010; Zapruder / Time Inc contract, Nov 25, 1963
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Whereas the 6th Floor timeline is a bit vague about Nov 23rd and omits Stolley leaving with Life now in possession of the "master" and "1 best copy".
Nov 23, 1963
8:00 am
Stolley arrived at Zapruder's office an hour early and waited.
9:00 am
Zapruder screened the film for Secret Service agents, then met with Stolley and agreed to sell only print rights of the film to Life. He expressed concern that the film not be exploited. Stolley left with the original film, which was couriered to Lifes editorial office and printing center in Chicago (Zapruder kept the remaining print). Life personnel examined the film to decide which frames to publish. At some point, they accidentally damaged the original film in two places, and six frames were removed, leaving visible splice marks.
The problem I have is the conflict of Phillips' removal from the 6th Floor timeline... and what we know of that "museum ad nauseum" is they tow the company line.
By having Zap deliver one of the 2 films to the airport for the FBI it neglects to state where this film goes from there. In Dallas the FBI is at Kodak watching a 16mm film on the morning of Nov 23.... Can we assume this is still 0186?
Phillips says Sorrels has 2 prints and the THIRD is forwarded. this plus the MASTER is all 4 copies.
Yet the Stolley best version in Zap's possession is missing in this equation. There is either a 4th copy or 0184 - the famous, missing yet unexplained counter # at Kodak.
The 6th Floor not discussing this Phillips transaction is most telling related to the hiding of this copy to Rowley, the same man who created CE399 when he handed it to Todd on the way to Frazier.
It is also my theory that this copy ultimately becomes the one Dino gets the next night and has already been cleansed in a few key areas.... while the final "public" 16mm version gets to Homer the following night.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Nov 23: 8 am
[/TD]
[TD]Stolley arrives in Zapruder's office
[/TD]
[TD="width: 275"]Wrone, 32; Trask, 127
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 92, bgcolor: #CCCCCC"]
[TD="width: 413"]Secret Service Insp. Kelley loans copy #0186 to FBI's James Bookhout, who gives it to SA Robert Barrett, who gives it to SAC Shanklin
[/TD]
[TD="width: 275"]Trask, 120; Wrone, 30
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 92, bgcolor: #CCCCCC"]
[TD="width: 413"]Two FBI agents view 16mm copy of film at Kodak for nearly an hour
[/TD]
[TD="width: 275"]Trask, 120; Wrone, 26; Zavada Study
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
While there are many, many Zfilm alteration threads none deal with the most important event of that day and the note which accompanies it.
It is a handwritten note from Dallas SS SA Max Phillips (who was also involved with the Postal Money Order charade) that we learn a different tale of originals and copies.
It was accepted at the time that Zapruder kept his "original" and one "best" copy which was shown over the weekend.
The pertinent part of Cris Scally's timeline is: http://www.jfklancer.com/zapruder/Tabula...ology.html
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]
8-9 pm
[/TD][TD]Zapruder & Schwartz return to Kodak with original and three copies. Copies developed and perforated with nos. 0185, 0186 and 0187
[/TD]
[TD]Trask, 115-6; Wrone, 26; Zavada Study 1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
9 pm
[/TD][TD="width: 413"]Zapruder & Schwartz leave Kodak, and drive to DPD HQ in search of Sorrels. Sorrels asks them to take 2 copies to agent Max Phillips at Secret Service office on Ervay Street
[/TD]
[TD="width: 275"]Horne, 1199; Trask, 119-120; Wrone, 26-7; Schwartz/SFM interview
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 92, bgcolor: #CCCCCC"]
9:55 pm
[/TD][TD="width: 413"]Phillips sends one copy to Secret Service Chief Rowley in Washington, and retains other copy (0186) for Sorrels
[/TD]
[TD="width: 275"]CD87, 66; Wrone, 28, 279-280; Thompson "Six Seconds…", 311-2
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Appears they found Sorrels with the "master" and 3 copies and were told to bring 2 copies to Phillips.
the 6th Floor timeline is a little different: http://www.jfk.org/the-collections/abrah...-timeline/ in that Max Phillips is not mentioned at all ??? The 6th Floor has Zap bringing a copy to be flown to "FBI INVESTIGATORS IN DC"
11/22 Con't....
6:00 pm
Zapruder and Schwartz returned to Kodak to have the prints processed and made available for projection.
10:00 pm
Schwartz and Zapruder delivered two prints to Sorrels. Sorrels asked them to take one to the Dallas Naval Air Station in nearby Grand Prairie, where a jet was immediately dispatched to take the print to FBI investigators in Washington, D.C.
Does this now consitute yet another copy? Sorrels has 0186. (1) Zap has "master" and "best copy" (2 & 3)
The "THIRD PRINT" is forwarded to Chief Rowley NOT the FBI and Phillips says Sorrels has 2 prints still in his possession. (4 & 5)
This is an 8mm film so at least one copy (or the original) is split.
From Scally's timeline we learn, with references, what occurred
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Nov 25:
Afternoon
[/TD]
[TD="width: 413"]Stolley and Zapruder agree sale of all rights to film to Life. Dan Rather may have been present for part of meeting. Stolley leaves with the last of the first-day copies, which Zapruder retained since Nov 22.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 275"]Horne, 1202; Wrone, 35-6, 283-5; Trask, 146; Mack e-mail to author, May 14, 2010; Zapruder / Time Inc contract, Nov 25, 1963
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Whereas the 6th Floor timeline is a bit vague about Nov 23rd and omits Stolley leaving with Life now in possession of the "master" and "1 best copy".
Nov 23, 1963
8:00 am
Stolley arrived at Zapruder's office an hour early and waited.
9:00 am
Zapruder screened the film for Secret Service agents, then met with Stolley and agreed to sell only print rights of the film to Life. He expressed concern that the film not be exploited. Stolley left with the original film, which was couriered to Lifes editorial office and printing center in Chicago (Zapruder kept the remaining print). Life personnel examined the film to decide which frames to publish. At some point, they accidentally damaged the original film in two places, and six frames were removed, leaving visible splice marks.
The problem I have is the conflict of Phillips' removal from the 6th Floor timeline... and what we know of that "museum ad nauseum" is they tow the company line.
By having Zap deliver one of the 2 films to the airport for the FBI it neglects to state where this film goes from there. In Dallas the FBI is at Kodak watching a 16mm film on the morning of Nov 23.... Can we assume this is still 0186?
Phillips says Sorrels has 2 prints and the THIRD is forwarded. this plus the MASTER is all 4 copies.
Yet the Stolley best version in Zap's possession is missing in this equation. There is either a 4th copy or 0184 - the famous, missing yet unexplained counter # at Kodak.
The 6th Floor not discussing this Phillips transaction is most telling related to the hiding of this copy to Rowley, the same man who created CE399 when he handed it to Todd on the way to Frazier.
It is also my theory that this copy ultimately becomes the one Dino gets the next night and has already been cleansed in a few key areas.... while the final "public" 16mm version gets to Homer the following night.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Nov 23: 8 am
[/TD]
[TD]Stolley arrives in Zapruder's office
[/TD]
[TD="width: 275"]Wrone, 32; Trask, 127
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 92, bgcolor: #CCCCCC"]
Unknown time
[/TD][TD="width: 413"]Secret Service Insp. Kelley loans copy #0186 to FBI's James Bookhout, who gives it to SA Robert Barrett, who gives it to SAC Shanklin
[/TD]
[TD="width: 275"]Trask, 120; Wrone, 30
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 92, bgcolor: #CCCCCC"]
Morning
[/TD][TD="width: 413"]Two FBI agents view 16mm copy of film at Kodak for nearly an hour
[/TD]
[TD="width: 275"]Trask, 120; Wrone, 26; Zavada Study
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter