Brexit: A Deep Event?

[James Lateer]

Two of the more important facts not mentioned above (as set forth in The Three Barons):

1. The General Analine and Film legal case was on JFK's and RFK's desks on 11-22-63. In the following week, LJB talked by phone to Don Cook. This was probably the same Don Cook who led the committee to privatize GAF. By mid-December, 1963, LBJ approved the sale of GAF (formerly owned by I G Farben) to private ownership.

2. Blogger Thomas H. Purvis posted information to the effect that Clay Shaw files were discovered in the I G Farben case boxes.

3. General Julius Klein, the bagman for the JFK assassination bribery money was attacked in a Florida op-ed piece, in a 1963 letter by Florida Senator George Smathers (a "friend" of JFK). Smathers alleged that Klein (the West German "shadow ambassador" and p.r.man) was representing I G Farben.

4. JFK's brother-in-law Prince Stanislas Radziwill was employed by Hermann Schmitz of I G Farben to "represent" the I G Farben interests in the General Analine and Film case in 1963 which LBJ quickly decided and ended.

Maybe somebody on this site can answer my biggest unknown information for which I would greatly appreciate and answer:

"When the last of the WWII Nazi's died, to whom did the money and organization that they had going (at least until the 1980's0 pass on to?"

That, to me, is the multimillion dollar question.

James Lateer

[David Guyatt]

Two of the more important facts not mentioned above (as set forth in The Three Barons):

1. The General Analine and Film legal case was on JFK's and RFK's desks on 11-22-63. In the following week, LJB talked by phone to Don Cook. This was probably the same Don Cook who led the committee to privatize GAF. By mid-December, 1963, LBJ approved the sale of GAF (formerly owned by I G Farben) to private ownership.

2. Blogger Thomas H. Purvis posted information to the effect that Clay Shaw files were discovered in the I G Farben case boxes.

3. General Julius Klein, the bagman for the JFK assassination bribery money was attacked in a Florida op-ed piece, in a 1963 letter by Florida Senator George Smathers (a "friend" of JFK). Smathers alleged that Klein (the West German "shadow ambassador" and p.r.man) was representing I G Farben.

4. JFK's brother-in-law Prince Stanislas Radziwill was employed by Hermann Schmitz of I G Farben to "represent" the I G Farben interests in the General Analine and Film case in 1963 which LBJ quickly decided and ended.

Maybe somebody on this site can answer my biggest unknown information for which I would greatly appreciate and answer:

"When the last of the WWII Nazi's died, to whom did the money and organization that they had going (at least until the 1980's0 pass on to?"

That, to me, is the multimillion dollar question.

James Lateer

Your question is answered by Paul manning in his book: Martin Bormann: Nazi in Exile.

In Latin America Bormann founded an investment entity of second generation (younger) businessmen Nazis - a board of directors if you will - to carry the ambitions of the Fourth Reich plans forward using all these funds.

[James Lateer]

Reading from my copy of Martin Bormann: Nazi in Exile by Paul Manning, I see these sentences:

"Atop an organizational pyramid that dominates the industry of West Germany through banks, voting rights enjoyed by majority shareholders in significant cartels, and the professional input of a relatively young leadership group of lawyers, investment specialists, bankers, and industrialists, he [Bormann] is satisfied that he achieved his aim of helping the Fatherland back on its feet." [p. 284]

"To ensure continuity of purpose and direction, a close watch is maintained on the profit statements and management reports of corporations under its control elsewhere. This leadership group of twenty, which is in fact a board of directors, is chaired by Bormann, but power has shifted to the younger men who will carry on the initiative that grew from that historic meeting in Strasbourg on August 10, 1944. Old Heinrich Mueller, chief of security for the NSDAP in South America, is the most feared of all, having the power of life and death over those deemed not to be acting in the best interests of the organization." [p. 284]

But the Manning book was published in 1981. We know the some of the names of the players as of 1981.

But the main questions implied here remain:

1. If this board of directors in 1981 was made up of card-carrying Nazis, were those on the board of directors after 1981 also card-carrying Nazis?

2. Was this Bormann board of directors merely an interlocking directorate with organizations domiciled in West Germany which were just run-of-the-mill businesses?

3. Since Pope Francis was the head of the Jesuit Order in Argentina in 1981, can we inquire as to what degree there was an Argentina-West Germany axis in 1981 and after? Were the Bilderberg people involved such as Prince Bernard of the Netherlands?

4. The August 10, 1944 Strasbourg meeting included German "industrialists" as well as top Nazis. Was there ever a clear dividing line between these industrialists and the top Nazis either before the War's end or after?

5. Based on my reading of Trading With The Enemy by Charles Higham, the successor companies to the I G Farben cartel, led by Hermann Schmitz, were not colluding with the South American Nazis as of 1963. This was when the General Analine and Film case was on the desks of JFK/RFK. If there were the ex-Nazis involved at that time, Higham does not mention any by name or explain their roles, if any.

So we don't really know any of the names of the "younger" members of Bormann's 20 member board of directors and for how long they continued to control these interests. IMHO, this tends to prove the thesis that the fugitive Nazi empire and its millions were pretty much confiscated by Juan Peron and Eva Peron and became more of a generalized global organization than a purely Nazi entity.

One can't rule out the possibility that the CIA (working with Heinrich Muller) actually took control of certain of these funds and used them for clandestine purposes after 1981.

But I have not read anything that proves much beyond the year 1981 when Manning was writing.

James Lateer

[Peter Lemkin]

I think some hints on this are in the book The Skorzeny Files. Other pieces of the puzzle lie elsewhere and I know some who are working on this now. The definitive answers, I believe, are not known and the money now is hidden in 'legitimate' entities not publicly know to have any association with Nazis - former or current. I personally think that some of the money has been and still is used for deep black covert operations from the Right - out of the USA, out of other right-wing countries and entities, some of it helped rebuild the German economy after the War, some is hidden in banks and bank-like entities or valuables such as gold, diamonds, etc. in various places. Some are in bonds and other financial instruments, some are in property and buildings, stocks..... An important lesson can be learned by what happened with and to the gold held by Japan after the War. Not the exact same things happened to it as happened to the Nazi gold and money/assets - but some of the same players and some of the same methods and thinking were employed. Both used smoke and mirrors - and not just put up and out by the Japanese or the Germans! In the end, while a lot can be known and is, I think the ultimate answer and accounting will never be known - except in its broad outlines.

[David Guyatt]

1) The sense I have is that second and third generation Nazi ideologues continue to control this fund but are not card carrying members of the Nazi Party. William Stevenson's The Bormann Brotherhood is also worth reading in this context.

2) Again my sense is that the board had connections going everywhere - especially in the US with the Bush family and Rockefeller's and others who were sympathetic to the Nazi's before WWII. Ditto I should think with the many members of the British elite of the day who were members of the Right Club and likewise sympathetic to Hitler's goals. The Thyssen family seem to me to have been a very powerful influence in all this as well as the earlier mention Chairman of Farben.

3) I've not done any research on Pope Francis, but Prince Bernhard owned (and holidayed at) an estate in the exact same part of Patagonia, Argentina, where Hitler lived for some years post WWII. Another visitor to that area in the late 1950's or early 1960's was a young Duke of Edinburgh, a German Prince of the House of Glucksburg. Edinburgh and Bernhard remained very close personal friends until Bernhard's death. The Lippe family - not just Prince Bernhard - is well worth researching in connection with their high-level Nazi associations.

4) My sense, again, is that German and foreign industrialists of the day were supporters of Hitler and his NSDAP because they favoured the creation of a state-business controlling elite that would dominate the world. Perhaps I'm too cynical?, but I think we largely now have that sort of ruling alliance in the West.

5) I'm inclined to agree with you on this. Higham's book was excellent but I doubt he had the deeper insights that Manning had. The latter had a second even more detailed book written and ready to to be published on this subject, but the sudden death of one of his sons caused him to shelve publication. His remaining son, in an interview with Dave Emory of Spitfire, said his dad believed his son had been murdered by the Bormann/Gestapo Mueller group because he had ignored their warning not to go ahead with this book (this interview is on Dave Emory's Spitfire List in connection with the review of Manning's book).

6) Agreed. We don't know the names of the second generation Nazi's managing the fund. My reading of the relationship between Peron, Bormann, Hitler et al is that he didn't confiscate any of their assets. Bormann paid Peron weekly, as outlined by Commissioner Jorge Silvio Colotto, in the interview conducted by Laurence de Mello.

In regard to the CIA, what connection they had with Mueller is unclear. I certainly don't buy any of fables weaved by Gregory Douglas and Robert Turnbull Crowley in this respect. Their Conversations with the Crow was, for me, nothing short of a designer deflection campaign. Having said that Manning does reveal that Mueller / Bormann had some connections to the CIA. Overall, I would argue that the CIA had a sufficiently large slush fund from the Japanese plunder trove of WWII - arguably much larger than the Nazi's loot - but possibly with some elements of Nazi plunder included.

[David Guyatt]

PS, reflecting further on the Vatican angle...

Years ago I was contacted by a well known American gold dealer who was also an admitted CIA type (Col. Oliver North tried to recruit him for the Iran-Contra shenanigans but he told North to shove it - he told me he didn't trust North an inch). This gentleman was very much on the far right and spent time with Leon Degrelle - the Belgian (Wallonian) Nazi collaborator - along with several other top Nazi's who survived the war. Anyway, because of my research on WWII gold plunder and its connections to all sorts of entities and people, he emailed me to reveal that the convergence point between the US and European far right was Opus Dei. So this would possibly be the area to conduct further research?

I was also told by a very informed and very senior British banker - a man who personally knew everyone - that the death of "God's Banker", Roberto Calvi, was a direct result of the machinations of Opus Dei who analysed that his removal from the Vatican's great game would open up the Holy See to their greater influence. Roberto Calvi died on 17 June 1982 from strangulation after having been hung beneath London's Blackfriars Bridge in a clumsy attempt to make it look like suicide. Karol Josef Wojtyla was installed as Pope John Paul II in 1978, but his relationship with Opus Dei seemed to blossom after Calvi's death. For example in 1984 he appointed an active member of Opus Dei (Joaquin Navarro-Valls) as the Director of the Vatican Press office.

In this respect Joel van der Reijden conducted extensive research on OP and closely aligned entities like SMOM and Le Cercle and was given access to some Belgian police reports. Le Cercle (the Pinay Cercle) of which quite a lot has been written about on this forum. Other connections include the notorious Templar Knights and the Vatican's Pan-Europa network.

Joel has written extensively about this subject at the following link: https://isgp-studies.com/opus-dei There appears to be some sort of script that disallows copy and paste.

[David Guyatt]

The following Daily Telegraph story may also be of interest:

MI5 files: Nazis planned 'Fourth Reich' in post-war Europe

The Nazis hatched plans for a "Fourth Reich" by planting sleeper cells in post-war Europe to destabilise governments, secret MI5 files show.

The plan was so the Nazi party could, in time, reappear in a suitable disguise and build up a fourth Reich Photo: AP







By Duncan Gardham, Security Correspondent

6:00AM BST 04 Apr 2011



The interrogation of a French collaborator revealed he had attended a conference near Munich in mid-April 1945, a few weeks before the end of the Second World War, presided over by an SS officer in full uniform in which the plans were discussed.

The agent, Olivier Mordrelle, was caught and interrogated in Italy three months later, and a report produced for MI5 that was marked "top secret," describing his reliability as "good."

The meeting, in a district called Deisenhofen, included 15 representatives from countries to the West of Germany, including Italy, and they were apparently told about a "great plan of promoting post-war unrest."

In the report, released by the National Archives, Mordrelle told his interrogators: "The speaker then proceeded to relate how ample funds had already been planted in South America, mainly in the Argentine, and would become available for financing agents in due course.

"In order to have bankers' who could distribute this money, certain trustworthy key men had already been sent to live in Spain and Switzerland."

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The agents were to lie low for a "certain period after the end of the war in Europe" and at a given time were to start organising "national movements" which would be "thoroughly in keeping with the traditions of each country but which would all preach anti-Bolshevism and stir up unrest culminating in civil war."
"If the cult of anti-Bolshevism were not particularly popular, then any other sore point, such as the burden of supporting an army of occupation or of having to cede territory might be seized on," Mordrelle told his interrogators.
The main purpose, he said, was "to make the Allies' post-war task as hard as possible so that the Nazi party could, in time, reappear in a suitable disguise and build up a fourth Reich."
The cardinal rule was that no movement was to make any mention of its pro-Nazi sentiments or to indulge in anti-Semitic propaganda.
"Each movement should also strive to create different slogans, methods of approach to the public, initiation ceremonies, ranks, etc, in order to lessen the risk of the affinity between movements being suspected," the report said.
"Clandestine cooperation between movements in different countries was not envisaged, at least at the beginning."
The Nazis apparently planned a three-layered organisation that included a "shutzgemeinschaft" outside Europe that would direct "high policy", second layer that would make policy and a first layer that carried out "moral propaganda work" for the various movements.
Mordrelle was told to head to Spain and contact a French agent at the Ritz Hotel in Madrid.
The file added: "Source states that this last meeting had a strange air of unreality. He had the feeling that last minute plans were being made in words and on paper when all the persons present were secretly preoccupied with the idea of how they could best save their skins."
Mordrelle had performed a number of roles for the occupiers, culminating in being appointed French representative for post-war activities by the Nazi party's intelligence agency, the Sicherheitsdienst.
He was also said to have had contact with nationalist movements in Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Cornwall.
The agent was described as 45, 5ft 7ins tall, and 145lbs, with greying hair and glasses, he was said to have a pale complexion, a moustache and false teeth.
He was said to be a former architect who designed warehouses and reinforced concrete garages for Renault and then for a firm specialising in theatre acoustics.
He had served as a lieutenant in the French army but fled to Germany in 1939, believing that the "Germans would conquer the West completely and that in any case they would have the most understanding for his [separatist] aims."
Mordrelle was sentenced to death by the French military authorities in May 1940 for continued political activity in connection with the separatist movement and for failure to report for military service.
He was said to have been involved with the IRA and described how a man called "Scarface," thought to be Dr Hermann Goertz, parachuted into Ireland in 1940 but was caught because he failed to destroy his German uniform.
His family was paid 5,000 Francs a month by the German secret service the Abwehr throughout the war and Mordrelle was seeking to "vanish from French sight in order to escape the death sentence or a term of imprisonment."
The report added: "It is concluded, however, that the French authorities are best able to deal with him."

Note: the reference in the article to "scarface" is, for my money, a clear reference to Hitler's commando SS-Obersturmbannfuhrer Otto Skorzeny and not Dr. Hermann Goertz as stated. Skorzeny was a prominent lin k man between the Bormann Brotherhood in Argentina and the European and American elite and intelligence community.

[Lauren Johnson]