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What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey
#31
David Guyatt Wrote:
Magda Hassan Wrote:There have been these and other abductions from Europe and other places and these are also known the European authorities but they have not garnered the same response as has Jamal Khashoggi's disappearance. So some thing special afoot about Khashoggi. Apparently he had also bought a property there and was also going to be setting up some sort of organisation.

There was a report I read somewhere that Khashoggi was a CIA guy. If true maybe that was what caused this unusual reaction? That and the fact that Trump has aligned so closely with Mohammed Bone Saw and taking the latter down hurts Trump too.

The serpentine and cynical twists of foreign policy and political in-fighting...

Khashoggi is a long time CIA guy. He was a main go between for their other asset Osama Bin Laden. His cover was journalism. There are many serpentine twists and turns in this and I recommend keeping an eye on Sibel Edmonds' Twitter feed. And some info above.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#32
Magda Hassan Wrote:
David Guyatt Wrote:
Magda Hassan Wrote:There have been these and other abductions from Europe and other places and these are also known the European authorities but they have not garnered the same response as has Jamal Khashoggi's disappearance. So some thing special afoot about Khashoggi. Apparently he had also bought a property there and was also going to be setting up some sort of organisation.

There was a report I read somewhere that Khashoggi was a CIA guy. If true maybe that was what caused this unusual reaction? That and the fact that Trump has aligned so closely with Mohammed Bone Saw and taking the latter down hurts Trump too.

The serpentine and cynical twists of foreign policy and political in-fighting...

Khashoggi is a long time CIA guy. He was a main go between for their other asset Osama Bin Laden. His cover was journalism. There are many serpentine twists and turns in this and I recommend keeping an eye on Sibel Edmonds' Twitter feed. And some info above.

While at this time it does seem very very likely that Khashoggi had been in some ways involved in intelligence - certainly at least peripherally with Saudi and U.S. intelligence - this in NO WAY lessens, IMO, the horror of how he was murdered and likely tortured before he was murdered. No one has given even the slightest clue, that I know of, of his involvement in any nasty covert operations. Perhaps he was, or perhaps he was involved on the information gathering / analysis side of things. It does seem sensible that his special 'treatment' by the Saudi government likely had to do with something special he knew and went beyond his journalism and speaking out about his differences with the powers that be in Saudi Arabia. What this might be, we do not know - and again, it does not in my mind, at this time, lessen in any way the horror of his having his fingers cut off while still alive and dismembered within 14 min. of entry into the consulate in Istanbul. I find the man rather sympathetic - from his speeches, writings and even his quest at his age for a new life with a woman and her statements that he was very lonely in life. As much as I do not like the CIA nor, for that matter, Saudi 'intelligence' or any covert agency anywhere, there are some few who work in those organizations who are not total miscreants. Some have some morality and leave eventually for that reason. Perhaps he was coming out of the cold and was killed for that....I don't think we can speculate at this time about what he was or was not involved in. I think his journalism, while perhaps a 'cover' was also genuine - just my take. He wrote what he really felt and while a mild critic of Saudi, was not a major critic. He had been all of his life quite close to the center of power in the Kingdom - a very weird place where summary execution, rendition and torture are common, if little talked about. I would like to know more about what he was involved in covertly at different parts of his life and why exactly he was so feared by the current ruler of Saudi. Saudi Arabia has a LOT more to answer for than the murder of Khashoggi - the list too long to list here....from funding terrorism [including 911], to fomenting wars [including the genocide in Yemen], to suppressing its own people - especially the women, to overthrow of governments [for example in Egypt], and more - much much more. They are an evil entity with lots of money and a highly effective and well-connected covert service. They are a general and large negative on the Planet and that they saw Khashoggi as their enemy, may [may] lift him up somewhat ethically. Time will tell.......I hope. It seems that the Turkish intelligence agencies have known from day one exactly what happened [minus where the body is now] - and are using this to pressure the Saudis into telling the truth. They have gotten a little progress there, but they are also, IMO, fishing for a secret deal [perhaps money or some political accommodation] for which they would drop the matter. I hope not, but fear that could happen.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
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#33
No Peter. No one should be killed like that. Even CIA agents. Even Muslin Brotherhood agents. Even fake journalists. Even real ones. His journalism was pretty tame. He never took a dissident stand against the monarchy at all. Just wanted a few tweaks here and there. It is a horror. But then I find the whole existence of Saudi Arabia a horror. The whole autocratic monarchy thing. The whole fanatic ideology thing. The whole male supremacy thing. The whole extreme wealth and extreme poverty thing. And as much as that is a horror so is the obsequious western toadying and pandering and enabling. In a civilised world we may have countries like Saudi Arabia exist but there is no need to pretend they are any thing other than horrific. And certainly not to arm the monsters. It really cannot go back to business as usual.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#34
Don't you folks get it? Rome-Vatican, Saudi-Mecca and Jerusalem-Israel are all three untouchable.

James Lateer
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#35
Because we live in a secular state, all of our history classes, media, library books etc. is bleached out of religious content.

As a result, basically everybody is looking at world history and world events like a black-and-white film or black-and-white TV set.

When you begin to read books that analyze the role of of world religions in world events and world history, it's like upgrading from black-and-white TV or film to full vivid color.

Apparently this is the sacrifice we all have to make in order to have a truly secular society. But that doesn't mean that individuals can't look into these issues on their own for their own benefit and information.

James Lateer
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#36
The latest official leaks from Turkey [which so far have proven totally correct - likely to to having in some way bugged the Saudi Embassy] state that after being strangled immediately upon entry into the Embassy, he was immediately dismembered and then dissolved in acid. There is one rumor his head was brought back to Saudi. Also, this team of 15 have done this several times before to other targets who were considered enemies of the state in Saudi Arabia. Great political leadership. I still want to know what their involvement was in 911...I know they did not mastermind it, but they seem to have been way up there in funding and involvement!

While I feel it is totally appropriate to be upset, as so many are, at the horrible and illegal execution of Kashogghi, there is quite a bit of ignored irony in that Turkey has jailed and tortured many journalists and opponents, also that no one seems to speak of the infinitely more horrible daily death toll in Yemen - at the hands of Saudi, USA and others - and that even in the USA we have political prisoners who were only acting as journalists - and have even executed some or they sit on death row [not to mention all the persons we have tortured or killed without trial]......many other nations acting self-righteous about Kashogghi also have blood on their hands.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Reply
#37
Sibel Edmonds via Twitter has been throwing cold water on all of the explanations for the Kashoggi affair. So I sent her a tweet. Five minutes later answered:

Quote:Frankly, no one knows for certain what the truth in this [/FONT]#Khashoggi case is. But one thing everyone can be sure of: The [/FONT]#DeepState Had High Stakes In This Case, Been vested in it for a reason, and investing on it (via investing-directing MSM) for "A Reason" or "Two".[/FONT]

In particular, she has rejected Turkey's multiple and ever-changing stories, and the of the fiance, the US gov and MSM, and the Saudis. She has not been willing to lean towards any explanation. I do vaguely recall that she was suspect that his murder was being used to leverage MbS regime.
"We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

"We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl
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#38
I'm not an expert on Turkey or Saudi Arabia. But if Kashoggi had long been a spy working for the CIA or related agencies, then it seems obvious that he was still at it when he was killed.

Like the Skripal poisoning, when you have a story that seems to be full of holes, then you usually have a National Security State or some sort of espionage provocation.

The relevant question here seems to be "who benefits"? It looks like enemies of the Turkish Dictator Erdogan and enemies of the current Saudi "crowned prince" both benefit.

Maybe people in our State Dept./CIA want to use this to slightly alter our policy in Syria, Yemen, Saudi Arabia or Turkey. This smacks of a Dick Cheney-type manufactured variety of political issue drummed up out of nowhere (and headed nowhere) from the US point of view.

We have the Iranian oil sanctions and their effect on the Kurds and Iraq. Kashoggi could have been working on some kind of deal trying to influence the Saudis somehow regarding the oil situation and Iran oil sanctions. Kashoggi must have miscalculated or maybe the National Security State just put him out there as bait in a trap or the equivalent.

Another question---he had a supposed body double walking around---do we even know for sure whether Kashoggi is dead or alive? That question just shows how thin the thread of this story really is!!


James Lateer
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