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I suspect Metta's book deserves a better discussion thread than this one. Regardless -

Quote:As in Joan Mellen's descriptions of the Centro-Mondo Commercialle, she quickly mentions ONCE that there were Nazis who were members. Then we go on and hear about all kinds of Italians who were involved.

It's an Italian company, in Italy. You'd assume that Italians were involved with it. Mellen also mentions Ferenc Nagy as being part of the leadership of PERMINDEX, and that Nagy was a 'longtime asset of CIA Deputy Director of Plans, Frank Wisner'. Wisner, in the thick of CIA and anti-communist figures like Dulles, Paul Nitze, John McCloy, Richard Bissell and maybe twenty others I'm too tired to copy out in detail from his Spartacus page, was later heavily involved in the Gladio activities in Italy, of which Borghese would eventually figure prominently.

Quote:What we do know about the Italian Centro-Mondo Commerciale was that it included Count Junio Valerio Borghese

As noted, Borghese was heavily involved in the environment of attempted coups within Italy throughout the 60's and 70's, which was detailed years ago in Jeffrey Bale's 600+ page thesis on Borghese's life.

Borghese carried out many of those activities with his countrymen, utilising various right-wing elements from Italian military and criminal circles. So I'm not sure why the presence of Borghese should automatically point to ex-Nazi involvement, rather than the involvement of Borghese's fellow Italians, simply as Borghese had moved within those Nazi circles decades earlier. Who was he going to find more of in Italy during the time of CMC's activities - ex-Nazi's, or rightwing Italians sympathetic to his cause?

Quote:there are elaborate scenarios of various Italians included in a sort of smorgasboard of activities which would try and "put a face" (a false face?) on the Centro Mondo Commercialle. ...The only face that belongs on that activity as it relates to the JFK assassination is the involvement of Clay Shaw

Again, I'm not sure how one can argue that the involvement of Italians within an Italian company inside Italy is a false front for other groups. Did Shaw run CMC or just work for it in a capacity? I thought it was the latter. And if 'various Italians' are involved with activities related to CMC, how do then you infer that this is an attempt to create a false front, rather than simply being various Italians involved in CMC?

Quote:This could be viewed as an attempt to divert attention away from the Nazis who probably ran Centro

How is it probable that Nazis ran Centro, which Nazis do you think ran it, and which documentation do you have - beyond your mention of a paragraph in the Tetens book - that supersedes the many pages of documentation in Metta's volume? Also, which source do you think we should refer to to learn about CMC? Metta's lengthy volume or the Tetens book?

All that said, since I'm looking at your argument

Quote:veteran German expert T H Tetens describes "Centro" of Switzerland as a welfare fund for worldwide Nazi fugitives. We know that Centro was booted out of Italy

The Tetens book is linked here.

and after a long search I found the one mention of 'Centro' in the book, page 203, in which he refers to 'Centro Europa', and never calls it by the singular name 'Centro', which just means "Center' (or 'Centre' if you're using the UK spelling), so to infer that it's the same Centre as the Centre World Commercial - 'Centro Mondo Commeciale' - seems a bit of a reach.

I notice that Metta has put up a page reprinting a dozen pages of his CMC documentation. It's here.

It has a lot of names included. I see Shaw's name, and the names of a lot of Italian folk, but not a lot of ex-Nazis. Is there any other documentation linking ex-Nazis to CMC beyond the Tetens book you cite, which barely seems related to the topic of CMC at all? Other than the mention of 'Centro Europa' there's no mention of CMC or 'Centro Mondo Commerciale' in the index of the Tetens book at all, so it's a bit of a jump.
Thank you. Bale's groundbreaking PhD-thesis has now been worked into "The Darkest Side of Politics I".
Some, here, informed me that James Lateer is put on ignore by various members of this forum because of the incredible low level of his "posts". I totally agree with them.

He endlessly write: "Centro Mondo Commericalle". He is not even able to write down the name the right way: Centro Mondiale Commerciale, this is the right one. Did he read Metta's book? Absolutely not, of course. Not only that: after not even reading the book, he dares to deeply insult Metta, to utilize defamatory words on Metta.

As kindly already stressed by Anthony Thorne, Metta's book is based on documents, not on fried air that is instead the basis of what comes out from Lateer mouth.

Finally: the deeply I repeat defamatory attitude used against Metta by Lateer authorizes me to ask who is behind Lateer, because Lateer is trying to smear Metta the same way the CIA tried to smear Jim Garrison.

Quote:So I'm not sure why the presence of Borghese should automatically point to ex-Nazi involvement, rather than the involvement of Borghese's fellow Italians, simply as Borghese had moved within those Nazi circles decades earlier.

Seems like someone here needs to accept sides as to who whacked Jack, isn't this what this discovery of Italians mingling with Nazis is all about, after all, who better to blame in the end if you have an Italian hit man conspiring with German Nazis, if you ask me both Mussolini and Hitler were nuts. As for the Nazis well someone has to get blamed for whacking Jack, it's as if the leader of the NTS Constantine Boldyreff who hung around the Gestapo, does that too make him a Kennedy killer? Lol.

Written in 2004

Terror's Legacy:
Schacht, Skorzeny, Allen Dulles

by Michael Liebig
But Skorzeny's "Odessa" also maintained extensive networks of members and supporters in "bourgeois" parties, government administrations, religious organizations, intelligence services, police organizations, and in the militaries of many European, Latin American, and Arab countries. "Odessa" was also active in the international arms trade, mercenary operations, and a vast array of organized crime.
Over the following decades, connections to Skorzeny's SS structures frequently turned up as part of military coups, police-state "sanitizing operations" against opponents of sitting governments, rebel and low-intensity warfare operations, and spectacular assassinations, such as the "Permindex" organization's involvement in the killing of U.S. President John F. Kennedy. Typical is their role both in the Algerian opposition movement FLN, as well as in the Organisation Armeé Secrète (OAS), which sought to topple and murder France's General de Gaulle.

This is self-explanatory. Permindex is Centro Mondiale Commerciale

More to come.

James Lateer
Sorry--I'm an independent author who doesn't work for anybody, much less the CIA.

Unlike other people on this site, I write all my own stuff and present it succinctly. My research is my own. I have taken really mean criticism for work THAT IS MY OWN WORK. Yet I don't take it personally. I have been called a liar, etc. etc. etc.

Frankly, I don't see why others here take criticism personally when it is somebody else's work. I would get nowhere by adopting that attitude. I will own my own work, but when it comes to a book written by somebody else. I just don't lose any sleep if somebody slams it.

Go ahead and slam Judyth Vary Baker or Peter Dale Scott. It's not my work so I could care less.

James Lateer
Not a lot of footnotes or references for source materials in Michael Liebig's two part article on the Odessa network. In fact, there's none.

One of the problems JFK research occasionally suffers from is when authors make claims and build a premise without offering any supportive proof. So Liebig's long piece reads like a summary from a guy who has spent time reading and researching the issue - and I gather he has - but he doesn't want to tell you what he read, where he researched it, and what evidence brought him to some of his conclusions. So, it's a bit hard to take a long unsourced essay as a preferable guide over a longer book that is sourced, and is referenced, and is footnoted. Did Liebig get his info from another writer, dig it up from unspecified sources, copy it from a foreign language source in a library archive or hear it from some guy in a bar? No idea and we're simply left to guess. Not all the Larouch/EIR articles suffer from this problem either - not even all their articles on P2 and Italian politics and Gladio and so on - but this one does, so it's not a great source to cite as proof of anything. If I cited it in a book or article as proving anything at all, I'd expect a slap on the wrist.

On top of which, your more dramatic claims were ones which excluded Italian involvement from Permindex and viewed their presence as being a 'false front', and scanning Liebig's essay I don't see anything which offers evidence for that accusation either. One of Liebig's Larouche pieces is an interview with Daniele Ganser, who wrote NATO'S SECRET ARMIES, which covers a lot of the same material, and Ganser's book is heavily footnoted. Yet at no point in his long volume does Ganser ever suggest that various Italians were acting as a false front for ex-Nazis. So, feel free to provide sources and references that may prove that point, but I haven't seen any yet and frankly don't expect to.
Quote:Unlike other people on this site, I write all my own stuff and present it succinctly. My research is my own. I have taken really mean criticism for work THAT IS MY OWN WORK. Yet I don't take it personally. I have been called a liar, etc. etc. etc.

Does it cost anything to join you? I can't argue with anyone who certainly knows more than me, it would be pretty stupid of me to do so, especially these folks who have been reading, writing & researching the assassination & Watergate for 30 plus years. I admire these people, they're smart, they know what they're talking about, but surely, there has got to be something we know they don't. Just saying.
From The Rise Of The Fourth Reich by Jim Marrs

"P 224

When Garrison attempted to subpoena the testimony of their employ-


-ees, NASA refused to provide them, citing reasons of national security. Amazingly enough, accused assassin Oswald told New Orleans garage owner Adrian Alba that he expected to soon work at a New Orleans plant of NASA. Why Oswald, who had tried to defect to Russia and voiced hostility toward the USA and its policies, thought he could go to work for the nation's leading aerospace agency was never explained.

According to the Torbitt document, this complex matrix of govern*ment agents, NASA employees, and Nazis was managed by Louis Mor*timer Bloomfieid of Montreal, Canada. According to Canadian newspaper accounts, Bloomfield was an ardent Zionist, an attorney, businessman, and philanthropist who had worked for the OSS during World War II and for the fledgling CIA. Torbitt stated Bloomfield was a longtime friend and confidant of J. Edgar Hoover and had been Hoover's contract supervisor of Division Five since his days in the OSS before World War II. Torbitt said Bloomfieid "was the coordinator of all activities, responsible only to Hoover and Johnson in carrying out the plans for John Kennedy's assassination."

In 1967, New Orleans DA Jim Garrison charged Clay Shaw, a former OSS officer and founder of the City's International Trade Mart, with con*spiracy to assassinate the president. According to several separate sourcesincluding Garrison's files and an investigation by the U.S. Labor Partythe International Trade Mart in New Orleans was a subsidiary of a shadowy entity known as the Centro Mondiale Commerciale (CMC) or World Trade Center, which was founded by Bloomfield in Montreal in the late 1950s, then moved to Rome in 1961.

The Trade Mart was con*nected with CMC through yet another shadowy firm named Permindex PERManent INDustrial EXpositions), also in the business of interna*tional expositions. According to Torbitt, Bloomfleld held half of the shares of Permindex and was in total command of its Operation in Europe and Africa as well as the North and South American continents. (In the 1962 edition of Who's Who in the South and Southwest, Shaw gave bio*graphical information stating that he was on the board of directors of Permindex. However, in the 1963-64 edition, the reference to Permindex was dropped.)


In the late 1960s, both Permindex and its parent company, Centro Mondiale Commerciale, came under intense scrutiny by the Italian media. lt was discovered that Prince Gutierrez di Spadaforo was on board of CMC. The prince was a wealthy aristocrat who had been und secretary of agriculture under the dictator Benito Mussolini, and whos daughter-in-law was related to Nazi minister of finance Hjalmar Schacht. Carlo D'Amelio, an attorney for the former Italian royal family; and Ferenc Nagy, former premier of Hungary and a leading anticommunist. Italian media reported that Nagy was president of Permindex, and board chairman and major stockholder was Louis Mortimer Bloomfield the powerful Montreal lawyer who represented the Bronfman family well as serving U.S. intelligence services. Reportedly, Bioomfield established Permindex in 1958 as part of the creation of worldwide trade centers connected with CMC.

According to a special investigation by reporters David Goldman Jeffrey Steinberg in their 1981 book Dope, Inc.: Britain's Opium War Against the U. S., Bloomfield was recruited into the British Special Operations Executive (SOE) in 1938, during the war was given rank within U.S. Army, and eventually became part of the OSS intelligence system including the FBI's Division Five, where he became quite close with Edgar Hoover.

Whatever the truth behind Centro Mondiale Commerciale and companion company Permindex, and their connection to Kennedy's assassination, the Italian government saw fit to expel both firms in 1962 for subversive activities identical to those in the much-publicized Propaganda-2 (P-2) Masonic Lodge scandal of the Reagan years.

Today it is clear that Clay Shaw was tightly connected to the CIA intelligence work despite his denials at the time of Garrison's investigation. lt is interesting to note that while serving in the U.S. Army during World War II, Shaw worked as aide-de-camp to General Charles Thrasher and as a liaison officer to the headquarters of Winston Churchill. [Thrasher's job was recruiting Nazi's--jl].

At the time of his arrest in New Orleans by Garrison, Shaw's personal address book was taken. lt revealed the names and contact inform of important Europeans, many of them pro-Nazi royalty or Bilderberg members."

[end of quotation from Jim Marrs]

I get a lot of words put in my mouth. I don't think I ever said that there were Italians working as front men in CMC to cover up the Nazi involvement. If I said it, it would be a mistake. Since CMC was at that time in Italy, it would automatically involve some Italians in some things. As to what things, I have not real opinion.

As can be seen from the above Jim Marrs quotation, the CMC organization was part of a much larger scope than just Italy. It was started outside of Italy and was booted out of Italy in 1962 BY THE ITALIAN GOVERNMENT according to Marrs.

(I have read elsewhere that it went from Italy to Switzerland in 1962 and thence to South Africa at a subsequent time).

I am very grateful to anyone who replies to my postings because this helps my analysis.

But what is the point being made by Mr. Thorne and Mr. Kaiser? Is this a suggestion that JFK was not killed by the worldwide Nazi network, but rather that JFK was killed by a group of Italians all by themselves who populated the Centro Mondiale Commerciale?

By including the above material on CMC in his book about the worldwide Nazi network, Mr. Marrs appears to believe that CMC was connected to the worldwide Nazis. You have the Schacht connection which could imply Nazi money. That's not clear. But the Bloomfield role seems to connect this to Hoover, Dulles, and the US intelligence community. The CIA was very, very active in Italy at this time as you can read about in the memoirs of former CIA director William Colby.

I am not denying that there were Italians who were part of CMC. According to EIR, the CMC was booted out of Italy in 1962 for attempting to re-establish a monarchy in Italy.

I was asked to provide a citation for my opinions and I posted the article by Michael Leibig. But then that's not enough because Leibig himself does not have citations. I have seen several times on this site where people just dismiss a book or a quotation by demanding more citations or criticizing one citation out of hundreds of citations in a book. I'm not saying that's in bad faith. But I would prefer to see a criticism or dispute of what the issue is rather than just a demand for more and more citations.

Here, I will just plain come out and ask of Mr. Thorne and Mr. Kaiser--do you think that JFK was murdered by the worldwide Nazi network which might include Skorzeny, Bormann and elements of NATO and/or the West German Government? Or do you think it more likely that a group of Italians involved in Centro Mondiale Commerciale planned and arranged the JFK murder working alone or through Gladio?

We now have myself (in The Three Barons) and Ralph Ganis (in The Skorzeny Papers) having explained in hundreds of pages and hundreds of notes exactly how the Nazis carried out the murder of JFK.

I am just politely asking--are you putting this book on the CMC as having a better explanation of the JFK assassination than The Three Barons or The Skorzeny Papers? (And we also have to mention the long-standing theories of Mae Brussell).

What's the theory of you guys? I would really, really like to know your take on this. Help us (JFK researchers) poop or get off the pot!!!!!!

James Lateer
This thread is dedicated to Metta's book. It should be then dedicated, in other words, to examine Metta's book, not to examine other books. But for Lateer's mind this seems something too hard to understand. Well, of course he does not. In fact, the truth is he does not want a discussion on the content on Metta's book. He does not even read the book. So, he uses other books as a weapon of distraction to hijack this thread, and talk of whatever but Metta's book. Besides, Metta's book is a sort of Copernican revolution about the assassination of JFK. Trying to confute its content using to continue using the metaphor Ptolemaic arguments, is senseless. Whatever other book does in fact ignore the content of the exclusive documents Metta's book is based on. So, if Lateer wants to talk of other books, he can open ANOTHER, different thread ELSEWHERE. This thread is dedicated to discuss Metta's book content. Period

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