Torture appeal lost by UK government

[Peter Presland]

And isn't that a Dubya lookalike standing just behind the Cheney figure?

Could be seen as Kissinger too. Funny that - Think-alikes yes (in so far as Dubya was capable of thought), but never had HK and Dubya down as lookalikes until now.

[Jan Klimkowski]

So, the former MI5 spychief and preposterously named Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller claims that British intelligence had no idea that the Americans were torturing people.

This is of course a desperate and totally insincere defence designed to protect government ministers and spooks from ending up in international criminal courts.

However, if MSM takes this defence seriously, as MSM is obliged to (after all, MSM regards the utterances of spy agencies as being the last word on "national security" and "defence of the realm") , then surely it's yet more evidence that British intelligence is completely and utterly incompetent and unfit for purpose.

Will Paxman (leading BBC political interviewer) grill MI5 and MI6 on this incompetence? Of course not.

[Peter Presland]

However, if MSM takes this defence seriously as MSM is obliged to (after all, MSM regards the utterances of spy agencies as being the last word on "national security" and "defence of the realm") ......

It really is absurd that we should take ANYTHING that a Spook (especially a Chief Spook - ex or current) says seriously when you consider the sine-qua-non of qualifications to become a Spook in the first place. The following quote from Joseph Persico's 'Roosevelt's Secret War: FDR and World War II Espionage' sums up those qualifications rather well I believe (hat tip to Cryptome):

Espionage involves peeking at the other fellow's hand, marking the cards, cooking the books, poisoning the well, breaking the rules, hitting below the belt, cheating, lying, deceiving, defaming, snooping, eavesdropping, prying, stealing, bribing, suborning, burglarizing, forging, misleading, conducting dirty tricks, dirty pool, skulduggery, blackmail, seduction, everything not sporting, not kosher, not cricket. In short, espionage stands virtue on its head and elevates vice instead.

It is their job to deceive and mislead so, from the habit of a 'successful' working lifetime, that is EXACTLY what Dame Eliar M-B is undoubtedly doing.

Never was Claud Cockburn's little aphorism more apposite than when applied to our SIS's:

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied

[Peter Lemkin]

So, the former MI5 spychief and preposterously named Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller claims that British intelligence had no idea that the Americans were torturing people.

This is of course a desperate and totally insincere defence designed to protect government ministers and spooks from ending up in international criminal courts.

However, if MSM takes this defence seriously, as MSM is obliged to (after all, MSM regards the utterances of spy agencies as being the last word on "national security" and "defence of the realm") , then surely it's yet more evidence that British intelligence is completely and utterly incompetent and unfit for purpose.

Will Paxman (leading BBC political interviewer) grill MI5 and MI6 on this incompetence? Of course not.

Points well taken, but I'll bet the preposterously named Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller was using the Bush-Chaney-Rumy 'definition' (term-of-art) as to what was and was not torture....its always in the 'fine print'....and not over until the fat lady sings.....:lollypop: (to cover-up the screams of those waterboarded et al.)