Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE?

[Dawn Meredith]

Here are two pictures taken just a few years apart. Do these look like the same woman to you?

To me they both appear to be the tall one. And do look alike. Same nose, unlike the fake mother, who has a widespread nose.

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

I'm guessing Harry means this lady:




The "famous Marguerite."

Yes, this is the fake mother, mother of Lee. She looks NOTHING like the real Marguerite, just as Harvey bears little resemblance to Lee.

[Albert Doyle]

Why would this one cause trouble by going to Washington to get Harvey back from Russia? As part of a ploy? Was she also cooperative in the hardship discharge ploy?

Why would she cause trouble by saying Lee was a spook and having Specter threaten to make her look crazy?

[Jim Hargrove]

To me they both appear to be the tall one. And do look alike. Same nose, unlike the fake mother, who has a widespread nose.

The one on the left is the real mother of American-born LEE Oswald; on the right is the impostor who took care of Russian-speaking HARVEY. I know the right-hand photo isn't very good (maybe John has a better copy), but notice the slope of the eyebrows on the two women; the left Marguerite has flat eyebrows; the right Marguerite's are arched, much higher above the nose. To me, the Marguerite on the right has eyes that are closer together on her face.

[Jim Hargrove]

Why would this one cause trouble by going to Washington to get Harvey back from Russia? As part of a ploy? Was she also cooperative in the hardship discharge ploy?

HARVEY was an intelligence agent who secretly understood Russian. He was sent to the USSR as a spy, but his effort failed to impress the Soviet authorities that he had genuinely "defected," and his despondency was so great he needed help getting back to the U.S. His caretaker "mom" helped get him back.

Why would she cause trouble by saying Lee was a spook and having Specter threaten to make her look crazy?

That's a great question! John thinks she was an intel dangle (he calls it a "spycatcher" or "flycatcher" or something like that) designed to get the attention of people who knew her "son" was a spy. These people might well try to contact her, or contact people around her at the WC, and then they could be identified and debriefed (or otherwise dealt with).

[Albert Doyle]

Harvey could have delivered a microdot on the U-2 radar. He could have impressed the Soviets that he was very real so they teamed him with Marina and sent him back.


I guess if the fake Marguerite said Oswald was a spy it would draw attention away from her own role.

[David Josephs]

I'm guessing Harry means this lady:




The "famous Marguerite."

Yes, this is the fake mother, mother of Lee. She looks NOTHING like the real Marguerite, just as Harvey bears little resemblance to Lee.

Dawn... the "fake" mother was the mother to no one, even if she winds up being Margaret Keating.

The tracking of Harvey begins in the 53-54 school year after Harvey returns from North Dakota. The Zoo photo is from August 1953 taken by Robert who IMO knows this is not his brother but does not let on.
The NYC school records for the 52-53 year SHOULD include the Youth House stay in April/May and the correct number of days in the spring semester...

but they don't. Here are three versions of supposedly the single "PERMENANT RECORD" of Lee Harvey Oswald.

From March 23, 1953 until May 30, 1953 this student is supposed to have attended 109 3/2 days out of 124 6/2 days with 15 3/2 days absent (3/2 = 3 half days)
Furthermore, the record in the middle is the start of of Perm record yet the final record exists on the two forms on either side... one becomes and exhibit, one does not.

This student also does not report to school on Jan 16th as he is supposed to but arrives in March.
There were 3 PS44's in NYC and it appears as if the burrough is changed from "x" to "y" for the start of the 53-54 year... there are PS44's in Manhattan, The Bronx and Queens.

[Jim Hargrove]

Harvey could have delivered a microdot on the U-2 radar.

Do you have any evidence that happened? Seems unlikely to me that American intel would give up any REAL info to the Godless Commies!

He could have impressed the Soviets that he was very real so they teamed him with Marina and sent him back.

They probably hoped Marina would be an asset for them, but I doubt she was.

I guess if the fake Marguerite said Oswald was a spy it would draw attention away from her own role.

Interesting!! That thought never occurred to me. Since I'm pretty slow, please give me a few weeks to think about that. <g>

[Albert Doyle]

Do you have any evidence that happened? Seems unlikely to me that American intel would give up any REAL info to the Godless Commies!

The depth already established by Harvey & Lee creates an intel level where this kind of thing would be likely. The U-2 was becoming dated and satellites were on the verge of coming into play. Gary Powers thought Oswald had something to do with his shoot-down. Oswald had 'microdot' written down in a notebook. You need to study espionage more if you think US didn't give any information to the Soviets. By giving real information on the soon to be obsolete U-2 Oswald could establish bona fides for other operations.

They probably hoped Marina would be an asset for them, but I doubt she was.

She's played her role well ever since. Didn't she have Webster's name in her address book?

I guess if the fake Marguerite said Oswald was a spy it would draw attention away from her own role.

Interesting!! That thought never occurred to me. Since I'm pretty slow, please give me a few weeks to think about that. <g>

Still though, why would a cooperating insider in such a sensitive operation draw attention to Oswald's real spy status?

[Gordon Gray]

Harvey could have delivered a microdot on the U-2 radar.

Do you have any evidence that happened? Seems unlikely to me that American intel would give up any REAL info to the Godless Commies!

He could have impressed the Soviets that he was very real so they teamed him with Marina and sent him back.

They probably hoped Marina would be an asset for them, but I doubt she was.

I guess if the fake Marguerite said Oswald was a spy it would draw attention away from her own role.

Interesting!! That thought never occurred to me. Since I'm pretty slow, please give me a few weeks to think about that. <g>

There is a line of thinking that the Secret Team wanted to scotch the Peace talks between Ike and Nikita, and since the U2 was becoming obsolete, the shoot down was fortuitous if not planned. Oswald could have well been sent to provide the info necessary. Also Marina has been helpful to Soviet interests, in giving credence to Oswald the lone nut. They certainly wanted no suspicions to be cast upon them even if they were indeed innocent.