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Foreign Policy Journal: Evidence for Informed Trading on the Attacks of September 11

Foreign Policy Journal
Monday, January 03, 2011

Evidence for Informed Trading on the Attacks of September 11
by Kevin Ryan
November 18, 2010

Just after September 11th 2001, many governments began investigations into
possible insider trading related to the terrorist attacks of that day. Such
investigations were initiated by the governments of Belgium, Cyprus, France,
Germany, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Monte Carlo, the Netherlands, Switzerland,
the United States, and others. Although the investigators were clearly
concerned about insider trading, and considerable evidence did exist, none of
the investigations resulted in a single indictment. That's because the people
identified as having been involved in the suspicious trades were seen as
unlikely to have been associated with those alleged to have committed the 9/11
This is an example of the circular logic often used by those who created the
official explanations for 9/11. The reasoning goes like this: if we assume that
we know who the perpetrators were (i.e. the popular version of "al Qaeda") and
those who were involved in the trades did not appear to be connected to those
assumed perpetrators, then insider trading did not occur.
That's basically what the 9/11 Commission told us. The Commission concluded
that "exhaustive investigations" by the SEC and the FBI "uncovered no evidence
that anyone with advance knowledge of the attacks profited through securities
transactions." What they meant was that someone did profit through securities
transactions but, based on the Commission's assumptions of guilt, those who
profited were not associated with those who were guilty of conducting the
attacks. In a footnote, the Commission report acknowledged "highly suspicious
trading on its face," but said that this trading on United Airlines was traced
back to "A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to
al Qaeda."[1]
With respect to insider trading, or what is more technically called informed
trading, the Commission report was itself suspect for several reasons. First,
the informed trades relating to 9/11 covered far more than just airline company
stock. The stocks of financial and reinsurance companies, as well as other
financial vehicles, were identified as being associated with suspicious trades.
Huge credit card transactions, completed just before the attacks, were also
involved. The Commission ultimately tried to frame all of this highly
suspicious trading in terms of a series of misunderstandings. However, the
possibility that so many leading financial experts were so completely wrong is
doubtful at best and, if true, would constitute another unbelievable scenario in
the already highly improbable sequence of events represented by the official
story of 9/11.
In the last few years, new evidence has come to light on these matters. In 2006
and 2010, financial experts at a number of universities have established new
evidence, through statistical analyses, that informed trades did occur with
respect to the 9/11 attacks. Additionally, in 2007, the 911 Commission released
a memorandum summary of the FBI investigations on which its report was based.[2]
A careful review of this memorandum indicates that some of the people who were
briefly investigated by the FBI, and then acquitted without due diligence, had
links to al Qaeda and to US intelligence agencies. Although the elapsed time
between the informed trades and these new confirmations might prevent legal
action against the guilty, the facts of the matter can help lead us to the truth
about 9/11.
Early signs
Within a week of the attacks, Germany's stock market regulator, BAWe, began
looking into claims of suspicious trading.[3] That same week, Italy's foreign
minister, Antonio Martino, made it clear that he had concerns by issuing this
public statement: "I think that there are terrorist states and organisations
behind speculation on the international markets."[4]
Within two weeks of the attacks, CNN reported that regulators were seeing
"ever-clearer signs" that someone "manipulated financial markets ahead of the
terror attack in the hope of profiting from it." Belgian Finance Minister,
Didier Reynders, said that there were strong suspicions that British markets
were used for transactions.[5] The CIA was reported to have asked the British
regulators to investigate some of the trades.[6] Unfortunately, the British
regulator, The Financial Services Authority, wrote off its investigation by
simply clearing "bin Laden and his henchmen of insider trading."[7]
Conversely, German central bank president, Ernst Welteke, said his bank
conducted a study that strongly indicated "terrorism insider trading" associated
with 9/11. He stated that his researchers had found "almost irrefutable proof
of insider trading."[8] Welteke suggested that the insider trading occurred not
only in shares of companies affected by the attacks, such as airlines and
insurance companies, but also in gold and oil. [9]
The extent of the 9/11-related informed trading was unprecedented. An ABC News
Consultant, Jonathan Winer, said, "it's absolutely unprecedented to see cases of
insider trading covering the entire world from Japan to the US to North America
to Europe."[10]
By October 2001, the Chicago Board Options Exchange (CBOE) and the four other
options exchanges in the US had joined forces with the FBI and the Securities
and Exchange Commission (SEC) to investigate a list of 38 stocks, as well as
multiple options and Treasury bonds, that were flagged in relation to potential
informed trades. SEC Chairman Harvey Pitt gave testimony to the House Financial
Services Committee at the time, saying, "We will do everything in our power to
track those people down and bring them to justice."[11]
Mary Bender, chief regulatory officer at the CBOE, stated "We've never really
had anything like this, [the option exchanges are] using the same investigative
tools as we would in an insider-trading case. The point is to find people who
are connected to these heinous crimes."
The people ultimately found included an unnamed customer of Deutsche Bank Alex.
Brown (DBAB). This involved a trade on United Airlines (UAL) stock consisting
of a 2,500-contract order that was, for some reason, split into chunks of 500
contracts each and then directed to multiple exchanges around the country
simultaneously.[12] When the 9/11 Commission report pointed to a "single
U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda," it was
referring to either DBAB or its customer in that questionable trade.
Michael Ruppert has since written about DBAB, noting that the company had
previously been a financier of The Carlyle Group and also of Brown Brothers
Harriman, both of which are companies closely related to the Bush family.
Ruppert also noted that Alex. Brown, the company purchased by Deutsche Bank to
become DBAB, was managed by A.B. (Buzzy) Krongard, who left the firm in 1998 to
join the CIA as counsel to director George Tenet.[13] Krongard had been a
consultant to CIA director James Woolsey in the mid 1990s and, on September
11th, he was the Executive Director of the CIA, the third highest position in
the agency.
Stock and Treasury bonds traded
In 2002, investigator Kyle Hence wrote about the stocks involved in the SEC's
target list. Those that had the highest examples of trade volume over the
average were UAL [285 times over average], Marsh & McLennan (Marsh) [93 times
over average], American Airlines (AMR) [60 times over average], and Citigroup
[45 times over average].[14] Other stocks flagged included financial firms,
defense-related companies, and the reinsurance firms Munich Re, Swiss Re and the
AXA Group. Put options for these reinsurance firms, or bets that the stock
would drop, were placed at double the normal levels in the few days before the
attacks. Regulators were concerned about "large block trades" on these stocks
because the three firms were liable for billions in insurance payouts due to the
damage inflicted on 9/11.[15]
The four highest-volume suspect stocks UAL, Marsh, AMR and Citigroup were
closely linked to the attacks of 9/11. The two airline companies each had two
planes hijacked and destroyed. Marsh was located in the exact 8 floors out of
110 in the north tower of the WTC where Flight 11 impacted and the fires
occurred. Citigroup was the parent of Travelers Insurance, which was expected
to see $500 million in claims, and also Salomon Smith Barney, which occupied all
but ten floors in World Trade Center (WTC) building 7. Oddly enough, Salomon
Smith Barney had both Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney on its advisory board
until January 2001.
Marsh occupied a number of floors in the south tower as well. This is where the
office of Marsh executive, L. Paul Bremer, was located. Bremer was a former
managing director at Kissinger Associates and had just completed leading a
national terrorism commission in 2000. The San Francisco Chronicle noted that
Bremer was a source of early claims that rich Arabs were financing Osama bin
Laden's terrorist network. In an article on the 9/11 informed trades, the
Chronicle reported that "The former chairman of the State Department's National
Commission on Terrorism, L. Paul Bremer, said he obtained classified government
analyses early last year of bin Laden's finances confirming the assistance of
affluent Middle Easterners."[16]
On the day of 9/11, Bremer was interviewed by NBC News and stated that he
believed Osama bin Laden was responsible and that possibly Iraq and Iran were
involved too, and he called for the most severe military response possible. For
unknown reasons, Google removed the interview video from its servers three
times, and blocked it once.[17]
The trading of Treasury bonds just before 9/11 was also flagged as being
suspicious. Reporters from The Wall street Journal wrote that the "U.S. Secret
Service contacted a number of bond traders regarding large purchases of
five-year Treasury notes before the attacks, according to people familiar with
the probe. The investigators, acting on a tip from traders, are examining
whether terrorists, or people affiliated with terrorist organizations, bought
five-year notes, including a single $5 billion trade."[18]
Some reports claimed that the 9/11 informed trades were such that millions of
dollars were made, and some of that went unclaimed. [19] Others suggested that
the trades resulted in the winning of billions of dollars in profits. One such
suggestion was made by the former German Minister of Technology, Andreas von
Buelow, who said that the value of the informed trades was on the order of $15
The FBI Investigations
In May 2007, a 9/11 Commission document that summarized the FBI investigations
into potential 9/11-related informed trading was declassified. [21] This
document was redacted to remove the names of two FBI agents from the New York
office, and to remove the names of select suspects in the informed trading
investigations. The names of other FBI agents and suspects were left in.
Regardless, some information can be gleaned from the document to help reveal the
trades and traders investigated.
On September 21, 2001, the SEC referred two specific transactions to the FBI for
criminal investigation as potential informed trades. One of those trades was a
September 6, 2001 purchase of 56,000 shares of a company called Stratesec, which
in the few years before 9/11 was a security contractor for several of the
facilities that were compromised on 9/11. These facilities included the WTC
buildings, Dulles airport, where American Airlines Flight 77 took off, and also
United Airlines, which owned two of the other three ill-fated planes.
The affected 56,000 shares of Stratesec stock were purchased by a director of
the company, Wirt D. Walker III, and his wife Sally Walker. This is clear from
the memorandum generated to record the FBI summary of the trades
investigated.[22] The Stratesec stock that the Walkers purchased doubled in
value in the one trading day between September 11th and when the stock market
reopened on September 17th. The Commission memorandum suggests that the trade
generated a profit of $50,000 for the Walkers. Unfortunately, the FBI did not
interview either of the Walkers and they were both cleared of any wrongdoing
because they were said to have "no ties to terrorism or other negative
information." [23]
However, Wirt Walker was connected to people who had connections to al Qaeda.
For example, Stratesec director James Abrahamson was the business partner of
Mansoor Ijaz, who claimed on several occasions to be able to contact Osama bin
Laden.[24] Additionally, Walker hired a number of Stratesec employees away from
a subsidiary of The Carlyle Group called BDM International, which ran secret
(black) projects for government agencies. The Carlyle Group was partly financed
by members of the bin Laden family.[25] Mr. Walker ran a number of suspicious
companies that went bankrupt, including Stratesec, some of which were
underwritten by a company run by a first cousin of former CIA director (and
President) George H.W. Bush. Additionally, Walker was the child of a CIA
employee and his first job was at an investment firm run by former US
intelligence guru, James "Russ" Forgan, where he worked with another former CIA
director, William Casey.[26] Of course, Osama bin Laden had links to the CIA as
Another trade investigated by the FBI, on request from the SEC, focused on Amir
Ibrahim Elgindy, an Egyptian-born, San Diego stock advisor who on the day before
9/11 had allegedly attempted to liquidate $300,000 in assets through his broker
at Salomon Smith Barney. During the attempted liquidation, Elgindy was said to
have "predicted that the Dow Jones industrial average, which at the time stood
at about 9,600, would soon crash to below 3,000."[28]
The 9/11 Commission memorandum suggests that the FBI never interviewed Mr.
Elgindy either, and had planned to exonerate him because there was "no evidence
he was seeking to establish a position whereby he would profit from the
terrorist attacks." Apparently, the prediction of a precipitous drop in the
stock market, centered on the events of 9/11, was not sufficient cause for the
FBI to interview the suspect.
In late May 2002, Elgindy was arrested along with four others, including an FBI
agent and a former FBI agent, and charged with conspiracy to manipulate stock
prices and extort money from companies. The FBI agents, Jeffrey A Royer and
Lynn Wingate, were said to have "used their access to F.B.I. databases to
monitor the progress of the criminal investigation against Mr. Elgindy."[29] A
federal prosecutor later accused Elgindy, who also went by several aliases, of
having prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks. Although the judge in that case did
not agree with the prosecutor on the 9/11 informed trading accusation, Mr.
Elgindy was eventually convicted, in 2005, of multiple crimes including
racketeering, securities fraud, and making false statements.
The Boston office of the FBI investigated stock trades related to two companies.
The first was Viisage Technologies, a facial recognition company that stood to
benefit from an increase in terrorism legislation. The Viisage purchase, made
by a former employee of the Saudi American Bank, "revealed no connection with
9/11." However, the Saudi American Bank was named in a lawsuit brought by the
9/11 victims' families due to the bank having "financed development projects
in Sudan benefiting bin Laden in the early 1990s."[30]
The second company investigated by the Boston FBI office was Wellington
Management, a company that allegedly held a large account for Osama bin Laden.
The FBI found that Wellington Management maintained an account for "members of
the bin Laden family" but dropped the investigation because it could not link
this to "Osama, al Qaeda, or terrorism."[31]
Although the connections to al Qaeda in three of these cases (Walker, the
Viisage trader, and Wellington Management) can be seen as circumstantial, the
amount of such evidence is considerable. The quality of the FBI investigations,
considering the suspects were not even interviewed, was therefore much less than
"exhaustive", as the 9/11 Commission characterized it.
The summary of FBI investigations released by the 9/11 Commission also described
how the Commission questioned the FBI about damaged computer hard drives that
might have been recovered from the WTC. This questioning was the result of
"press reports [contending] that large volumes of suspicious transactions flowed
through the computers housed in the WTC on the morning of 9/11 as part of some
illicit but ill-defined effort to profit from the attacks."[32] The Commission
came to the conclusion that no such activity occurred because "the assembled
agents expressed no knowledge of the reported hard-drive recovery effort" and
"everything at the WTC was pulverized to near powder, making it extremely
unlikely that any hard-drives survived."
The truth, however, is that many such hard-drives were recovered from the WTC
and were sent to specialist companies to be cleaned and have data recovered. A
German company named Convar did a good deal of the recovery work.
In December 2001, Reuters reported that "Convar has recovered information from
32 computers that support assumptions of dirty doomsday dealings." Richard
Wagner, a data retrieval expert at Convar, testified that "There is a suspicion
that some people had advance knowledge of the approximate time of the plane
crashes in order to move out amounts exceeding $100 million. They thought that
the records of their transactions could not be traced after the main frames were
destroyed." Director of Convar, Peter Henschel, said that it was "not only the
volume, but the size of the transactions [that] was far higher than usual for a
day like that."[33]
By late December 2001, Convar had completed processing 39 out of 81 drives, and
expected to receive 20 more WTC hard drives the next month. Obviously, the 911
Commission memorandum drafted in August 2003 was not particularly reliable
considering it reported that the FBI and the 911 Commission had no knowledge of
any of this.
Statistical confirmations
Considering that the FBI and 9/11 Commission overlooked the suspicious
connections of informed trading suspects like Wirt Walker, and also claimed in
2003 to have no knowledge of hard drive recoveries publicly reported in 2001, we
must assume that they did a poor job of investigating. Today, however, we know
that several peer-reviewed academic papers have reported solid evidence that
informed trades did occur. That is, the conclusions reached by the official
investigations have now been shown, through scientific analysis, to be quite
In 2006, a professor of Finance from the University of Illinois named Allen
Poteshman published an analysis of the airline stock option trades preceding the
attacks. This study came to the conclusion that an indicator of long put volume
was "unusually high which is consistent with informed investors having traded in
the option market in advance of the attacks."[34] Long puts are bets that a
stock or option will fall in price.
The unusually high volume of long puts, purchased on UAL and AMR stock before
these stocks declined dramatically due to the 9/11 attacks, are evidence that
the traders knew that the stocks would decline. Using statistical techniques to
evaluate conditional and unconditional distributions of historical stock option
activity, Professor Poteshman showed that the data indicate that informed
trading did occur.
In January 2010, a team of financial experts from Switzerland published evidence
for at least thirteen informed trades in which the investors appeared to have
had foreknowledge of the attacks. This study focused again on a limited number
of companies but, of those, the informed trades centered on five airline
companies and four financial companies. The airline companies were American
Airlines, United Airlines and Boeing. Three of the financial companies involved
were located in the WTC towers and the fourth was Citigroup, which stood to lose
doubly as the parent of both Travelers Insurance and the WTC 7 tenant, Salomon
Smith Barney.[35]
More recently, in April 2010, an international team of experts examined trading
activities of options on the Standard & Poors 500 index, as well as a volatility
index of the CBOE called VIX. These researchers showed that there was a
significant abnormal increase in trading volume in the option market just before
the 9/11 attacks, and they demonstrated that this was in contrast to the absence
of abnormal trading volume over periods long before the attacks. The study also
showed that the relevant abnormal increase in trading volume was not simply due
to a declining market.[36] Their findings were "consistent with insiders
anticipating the 9-11 attacks."
In the early days just after 9/11, financial regulators around the world gave
testimony to unprecedented evidence for informed trading related to the
terrorist attacks of that day. One central bank president (Welteke) said there
was irrefutable proof of such trading. This evidence led US regulators to vow,
in Congressional testimony, to bring those responsible to justice. Those vows
were not fulfilled, as the people in charge of the investigations let the
suspects off the hook by conducting weak inquiries and concluding that informed
trading could not have occurred if it was not done directly by Osama bin Laden
or al Qaeda.
The "exhaustive investigations" conducted by the FBI, on which the 9/11
Commission report was based, were clearly bogus. The FBI did not interview the
suspects and did not appear to compare notes with the 9/11 Commission to help
make a determination if any of the people being investigated might have had ties
to al Qaeda. The Commission's memorandum summary suggests that the FBI simply
made decisions on its own regarding the possible connections of the suspects and
the alleged terrorist organizations. Those unilateral decisions were not
appropriate, as at least three of the suspected informed trades (those of
Walker, the Viisage trader, and Wellington Management) involved reasonably
suspicious links to Osama bin Laden or his family. Another suspect (Elgindy)
was a soon-to-be convicted criminal who had direct links to FBI employees who
were later arrested for securities-related crimes.
The FBI also claimed in August 2003 that it had no knowledge of hard drives
recovered from the WTC, which were publicly reported in 2001. According to the
people who retrieved the associated data, the hard drives gave evidence for
"dirty doomsday dealings."
The evidence for informed trading on 9/11 includes many financial vehicles, from
stock options to Treasury bonds to credit card transactions made at the WTC just
before it was destroyed. Today we know that financial experts from around the
world have provided strong evidence, through established and reliable
statistical techniques, that the early expert suspicions were correct, and that
9/11 informed trading did occur.
People knew in advance about the crimes of 9/11, and they profited from that
knowledge. Those people are among us today, and our families and communities
are at risk of future terrorist attacks and further criminal profiteering if we
do not respond to the evidence. It is time for an independent, international
investigation into the informed trades and the traders who benefited from the
terrorist acts of September 11th.
[1] National Commission on the Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, The
9/11 Commission Report, July 2004, p 172, and Chapter 5, footnote 130,
[2] 9/11 Commission memorandum entitled "FBI Briefing on Trading", prepared by
Doug Greenburg, 18 August 2003,
[3] Dave Carpenter, Exchange examines odd jump: Before attack: Many put options
of hijacked planes' parent companies purchased , The Associated Press, 18
September 2001,
[4] BBC News, Bin Laden share gains' probe, 18 September 2001,
[5] Tom Bogdanowicz and Brooks Jackson, Probes into suspicious' trading, CNN,
24 September 2001, [URL=""]
[6] James Doran, Insider Trading Apparently Based on Foreknowledge of 9/11
Attacks, The London Times, 18 September 2001,
[7] David Brancaccio, Marketplace Public Radio: News Archives, 17 October 2001,
[8] Paul Thompson and The Center for Cooperative Research, Terror Timeline: Year
by Year, Day by Day, Minute by Minute: A Comprehensive Chronicle of the Road to
9/11 and America's Response, Harper Collins, 2004. Also found at History
Commons, Complete 9/11 Timeline, Insider Trading and Other Foreknowledge http://
[9] Associated Press, EU Searches for Suspicious Trading , 22 September 2001,,2933,34910,00.html
[10] World News Tonight, 20 September 2001
[11] Erin E. Arvedlund, Follow The Money: Terrorist Conspirators Could Have
Profited More From Fall Of Entire Market Than Single Stocks, Barron's (Dow Jones
and Company), 6 October 2001
[12] Ibid
[13] Michael C. Ruppert, Crossing the Rubicon: the decline of the American
empire at the end of the age of oil, New Society Publishers, 2004
[14] Kyle F. Hence, Massive pre-attack insider trading' offer authorities
hottest trail to accomplices, Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG), 21
April 2002,
[15] Grant Ringshaw, Profits of doom, The London Telegraph, 23 September 2001,
[16] Christian Berthelsen and Scott Winokur, Suspicious profits sit
uncollected: Airline investors seem to be lying low, San Francisco Chronicle,
29 September 2001, [URL=""]
[17] Lewis Paul Bremer III on Washington, DC, NBC4 TV, 11 September 2001,
[18] Charles Gasparino and Gregory Zuckerman, Treasury Bonds Enter Purview of
U.S. Inquiry Into Attack Gains, The Wall Street Journal, 2 October 2001,
[19] Christian Berthelsen and Scott Winokur
[20] Tagesspiegel, Former German Cabinet Minister Attacks Official Brainwashing
On September 11 Issue Points at "Mad Dog" Zbig and Huntington, 13 January 2002,
[21] 9/11 Commission memorandum
[22] The 9/11 Commission memorandum that summarized the FBI investigations
refers to the traders involved in the Stratesec purchase. From the references
in the document, we can make out that the two people had the same last name and
were related. This fits the description of Wirt and Sally Walker, who are known
to be stock holders in Stratesec. Additionally, one (Wirt) was a director at
the company, a director at a publicly traded company in Oklahoma (Aviation
General), and chairman of an investment firm in Washington, DC (Kuwam Corp).
[23] 9/11 Commission memorandum
[24] Sourcewatch, Mansoor Ijaz/Sudan,
[25] History Commons, Complete 911 Timeline, Bin Laden Family, http://www.histor
[26] Kevin R. Ryan, The History of Wirt Dexter Walker: Russell & Co, the CIA and
9/11,, 3 September 2010, [URL=""]
[27] Michael Moran, Bin Laden comes home to roost : His CIA ties are only the
beginning of a woeful story, MSNBC, 24 August 1998,
[28] Alex Berenson, U.S. Suggests, Without Proof, Stock Adviser Knew of 9/11,
The New York Times, 25 May 2002, [URL=""]
[29] Alex Berenson, Five, Including F.B.I. Agents, Are Named In a Conspiracy,
The New York Times, 23 May 2002
[30] History Commons, Complete 911 Timeline, Saudi American Bank,
[31] 9/11 Commission memorandum
[32] 9/11 Commission memorandum
[33] Erik Kirschbaum, German Firm Probes Final World Trade Center Deals,
Reuters, 16 December 2001,
[34] Allen M. Poteshman, Unusual Option Market Activity and the Terrorist
Attacks of September 11, 2001, The Journal of Business, 2006, vol. 79, no. 4,
[35] Marc Chesney, et al, Detecting Informed Trading Activities in the Options
Markets, Social Sciences Research Network, 13 January 2010,
[36] Wing-Keung Wong, et al, Was there Abnormal Trading in the S&P 500 Index
Options Prior to the September 11 Attacks?, Social Sciences Research Network,
April 2010,
Page : 1 2 3 4View All

Kevin R. Ryan began to investigate the tragedy of September 11th, 2001 through
his work as Site Manager for a division of Underwriters Laboratories (UL). He
was fired by UL in 2004 for writing to the National Institute of Standards and
Technology (NIST), asking about its World Trade Center investigation and UL's
work to ensure the fire resistance of the buildings. He now serves as co-editor
of the Journal of 9/11 Studies, and board director at Architects and Engineers
for 9/11 Truth. Ryan has co-authored several books and peer-reviewed scientific
articles on the subject. Read more articles by Kevin Ryan.
"Where is the intersection between the world's deep hunger and your deep gladness?"
Ooops.... this was previously posted here at DPF by Magda, with further discussion and articles posted. I just didn't recall it had appeared in the Foreign Policy Journal back then.
Moderators may delete... :noblesteed:
"Where is the intersection between the world's deep hunger and your deep gladness?"
Ed Jewett Wrote:Ooops.... this was previously posted here at DPF by Magda, with further discussion and articles posted. I just didn't recall it had appeared in the Foreign Policy Journal back then.
Moderators may delete... :noblesteed:

WHAT? Your horse takes a crap and you tell the Mods to clean up the mess......:lol:
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
Buckminster Fuller
Keith Millea Wrote:WHAT? Your horse takes a crap and you tell the Mods to clean up the mess......:lol:

Well, I'm a little sensitive to flushing things down the memory hole around there; the last person who did it got banned for life, and I kinda like the place.
"Where is the intersection between the world's deep hunger and your deep gladness?"
Ed Jewett Wrote:Well, I'm a little sensitive to flushing things down the memory hole around there; the last person who did it got banned for life, and I kinda like the place.
But Ed we like you here too and more importantly we know you are sane :angeldevil: and not on some sort of paranoid messianic power trip Hitler like the late unlamented mass deleter Genghis von Bronstein Khan that passed by here with her hoard of dead birds recently. I'll happily clean up after your horse poop considering the bloody great mountain of parrot guano we just had all over Christmas. Gee, you can tell I'm not bitter and twisted much can't you? :lol:
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Magda Hassan Wrote:But Ed we like you here too and more importantly we know you are sane :angeldevil: and not on some sort of paranoid messianic power trip Hitler like the late unlamented mass deleter Genghis von Bronstein Khan that passed by here with her hoard of dead birds recently. I'll happily clean up after your horse poop considering the bloody great mountain of parrot guano we just had all over Christmas. Gee, you can tell I'm not bitter and twisted much can't you? :lol:

Genghis... :lol::lol::lol:
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14

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