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The Plot Against Harold Wilson
#11
Magda Hassan Wrote:
Paul Rigby Wrote:
Magda Hassan Wrote:http://home.alphalink.com.au/~loge27/c_w...ission.htm
http://www.historycooperative.org/procee...maher.html

Is this useful to you Paul?

Evatt was a very bright man. Brighter than most. If he was dismissed by the spook propaganda circus as a conspiracy-obsessed nut it was because they were conspiring against him and others.

Thanks, Magda. I've read Robert Manne's book, The Petrov Affair (1987), and a very substantial bucket of whitewash it is, too.

Must mention in passing that Petrov was identified as a Beria man by ASIO (see the thread on Evica's fascinating book for the primary purpose of Operation Splinter Factor); and thus a prime target for bringing down.

Bialoguski, cultivator-in-chief of Petrov, reads at times like a Stephen Ward figure. Was Ward's actual role rather different to the one publicly portrayed? Just a thought for future reference.

Paul

Tantalising what you say about the Operation Splinter Evica thread. Do you have a handy link for that?

By Operation Splinter Factor, I meant the book by Stewart Steven, whose thesis, very obviously the product of some very selective anti-Angleton briefing, sought to persuade us of a very big lie - to wit, that the CIA ran a very active and very large campaign to liberate Eastern Europe from Soviet control.

In fact, in so far as I can make sense of what happened, precisely the reverse was true: the objective of the CIA was to provoke repression and continued Soviet military occupation, the better to continue the US assault on the traditional Western European colonial powers - chiefly Britain and France - while refashioning Germany to Washington's purposes.

The major CIA interventions were therefore designed to scupper those leaders and factions within Moscow who sought to loosen control or, as in Beria's case, withdraw from Eastern Europe. The CIA targeted Beria's men in embassies across the world to thwart their patron's initiatives and charm offensives; and when Beria fell - thanks in large measure to the Berlin uprising which united Red Army, the Communist Party and the CIA in one of the more remarkable confluences of interest in the early post-WWII phase of the Cold War - these were thought, with good reason, easy pickings for defection operations.

My take on this is not shared, as far as I can tell, by any historian of note, and there is, thus, no readily available link.

Magda Hassan Wrote:I think Ward was a much more interesting and multidimensional character than Bialoguski who just seems another garden variety anti-Bolshevik Russophobe to me.

I don't know enough about Bialoguski to comment.

Magda Hassan Wrote:I need to read up more on the whole Wilson government.

Treat yourself for Christmas and start here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Smear-Wilson-Sec...0586217134
"There are three sorts of conspiracy: by the people who complain, by the people who write, by the people who take action. There is nothing to fear from the first group, the two others are more dangerous; but the police have to be part of all three,"

Joseph Fouche
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#12
David Guyatt Wrote:Btw, in the RT report there is some very strange capitalisation going on? Can't really complain as this is something I do too, but this is exceptional - even by my standards...

Not RT's fault, I assure you, but rather a product of automatic translation, I'm afraid, which responds to English-language texts by randomly capitalising everything but proper nouns. As with Ms. Lola Ferrari's Rabbit, there appears to be no obvious or good way of turning the damn thing off.
"There are three sorts of conspiracy: by the people who complain, by the people who write, by the people who take action. There is nothing to fear from the first group, the two others are more dangerous; but the police have to be part of all three,"

Joseph Fouche
Reply
#13
Magda Hassan Wrote:
Paul Rigby Wrote:
Magda Hassan Wrote:http://home.alphalink.com.au/~loge27/c_w...ission.htm
http://www.historycooperative.org/procee...maher.html

Is this useful to you Paul?

Evatt was a very bright man. Brighter than most. If he was dismissed by the spook propaganda circus as a conspiracy-obsessed nut it was because they were conspiring against him and others.

Thanks, Magda. I've read Robert Manne's book, The Petrov Affair (1987), and a very substantial bucket of whitewash it is, too.

Must mention in passing that Petrov was identified as a Beria man by ASIO (see the thread on Evica's fascinating book for the primary purpose of Operation Splinter Factor); and thus a prime target for bringing down.

Bialoguski, cultivator-in-chief of Petrov, reads at times like a Stephen Ward figure. Was Ward's actual role rather different to the one publicly portrayed? Just a thought for future reference.

Paul

Sorry Paul. I missed this at the time. My links seem to no longer be active any more also. Robert Mann when he wrote in the 1980's was a very right wing ideologue and was editor of the 'intellectual' hard right wing journal 'Quadrant'. He is now slightly to the left of Genghis Khan as he regards indigenous people and refugees as human being and as deserving of human rights and a true history. Naturally for such heresy he had to resign his editorship at Quadrant. But I'm pretty sure he is quite unreconstructed when it come to matters Soviet. Tantalising what you say about the Operation Splinter Evica thread. Do you have a handy link for that? I think Ward was a much more interesting and multidimensional character than Bialoguski who just seems another garden variety anti-Bolshevik Russophobe to me.

David there seem distinct echoes of the Whitlam drama with Harold Wilson. In Whitlam's case many of the Shakley lot but other also. I need to read up more on the whole Wilson government.

A good place to start Magda, is Robin Ramsay's and Stehphen Dorril's book "Smear: Wilson and the Secret State". It certainly opened my eyes at the time.

PS, I just saw Paul recommended this too -- great minds and all that.:Cheersdrunk:
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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#14
Paul Rigby Wrote:
David Guyatt Wrote:Btw, in the RT report there is some very strange capitalisation going on? Can't really complain as this is something I do too, but this is exceptional - even by my standards...

Not RT's fault, I assure you, but rather a product of automatic translation, I'm afraid, which responds to English-language texts by randomly capitalising everything but proper nouns. As with Ms. Lola Ferrari's Rabbit, there appears to be no obvious or good way of turning the damn thing off.

Dyslexic 'effing machines...
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
Reply
#15
Paul Rigby Wrote:By Operation Splinter Factor, I meant the book by Stewart Steven, whose thesis, very obviously the product of some very selective anti-Angleton briefing, sought to persuade us of a very big lie - to wit, that the CIA ran a very active and very large campaign to liberate Eastern Europe from Soviet control.

In fact, in so far as I can make sense of what happened, precisely the reverse was true: the objective of the CIA was to provoke repression and continued Soviet military occupation, the better to continue the US assault on the traditional Western European colonial powers - chiefly Britain and France - while refashioning Germany to Washington's purposes.

The major CIA interventions were therefore designed to scupper those leaders and factions within Moscow who sought to loosen control or, as in Beria's case, withdraw from Eastern Europe. The CIA targeted Beria's men in embassies across the world to thwart their patron's initiatives and charm offensives; and when Beria fell - thanks in large measure to the Berlin uprising which united Red Army, the Communist Party and the CIA in one of the more remarkable confluences of interest in the early post-WWII phase of the Cold War - these were thought, with good reason, easy pickings for defection operations.

My take on this is not shared, as far as I can tell, by any historian of note, and there is, thus, no readily available link.

Interesting what you say about Beria's men. There are/were definitely factions and differences in the USSR and in the other socialist states. Most westerners tend it see it all as a monolithic entity set on taking over the world and that is so far from the reality. Socialist and communist groups were internally not always unified let alone between parties. Eg in Hungary the Soviets were forced kicking and screaming into coming to Hungary. The initial response was for the Hungarians to sort it out for themselves. They didn't need the head ache, disruption, expense and resources expended to go to Hungary. But the socialists in the coalition who were aligned most closely with the USSR CP had threatened to resign from the ruling coalition if the Soviets didn't come. Remember also that Hungary was a belligerent on the axis side during the war and owed huge reparations to Yugoslavia and the USSR and other neighbours. There were also treaties invoked by the Hungarian government which required the involvement of the USSR. Remember also that there was also a previous Hungarian soviet republic which was destroyed when Romania and Yugoslavia invaded on behalf of the monarchists and reactionary classes. Nor was the 56 'uprising' spontaneous. It was funded and organised by the US and Catholic church and a likely stay behind network action. An early colour revolution if you like. Which isn't to say that it was all peace love and Woodstock in Hungary politically, there were political differences and difficulties and competing class forces at work, but they could have been solved peacefully if left to their own resources and with out western interference. Some wanted a socialism like Yugoslavia and the non-aligned movement others like neutral Austria which had recently signed a neutrality treaty. Not a simple black and white case of the big bad wolf seeking to oppress the peace loving Hungarian people. There were counter demonstrations of people wanting to support the existing system and there were unknown snipers shooting at the demonstrators which we see happening today in the colour revolutions. My information is not from Wikipedia (which has pretty woeful coverage of the event) but from participants.


Magda Hassan Wrote:I need to read up more on the whole Wilson government.

Treat yourself for Christmas and start here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Smear-Wilson-Sec...0586217134[/QUOTE]

Thank you! I will. They have a good used copy for £0.01. Which is great. Plus $13 postage which is not so great but beats swimming there and back to get it without postage. I bought a couple of other books. One by Robin Ramsey on New Labor and one by Steven Dorrill on Intel services in the 1990's. Also just pennies plus some hefty postage.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#16
David Guyatt Wrote:
Magda Hassan Wrote:David there seem distinct echoes of the Whitlam drama with Harold Wilson. In Whitlam's case many of the Shakley lot but other also. I need to read up more on the whole Wilson government.

A good place to start Magda, is Robin Ramsay's and Stehphen Dorril's book "Smear: Wilson and the Secret State". It certainly opened my eyes at the time.

PS, I just saw Paul recommended this too -- great minds and all that.:Cheersdrunk:

LOL! Yes I order it and Stephen Dorrill's 'Silent Conspiracy' as well. And the New Labor one they did. All 3 for the combined princely sum of £0.46! Chuffed ::runaround::
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#17
This also looks like an interesting book on the subject:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Wilson-Plot-...F6G10S8BH1


n.b. I've not read it myself, I just found it whilst looking to see what was available on Amazon.
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.”
― Leo Tolstoy,
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#18
There's a standing emergency contingency plan for the Guards regiments to take control of certain key facilities, I gather, possibly a residual part of this plot (if it's real); Post Office, TV centres, the usual places that are on the list of coup d'etat'ers.
Martin Luther King - "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
Albert Camus - "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion".
Douglas MacArthur — "Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons."
Albert Camus - "Nothing is more despicable than respect based on fear."
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#19
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.”
― Leo Tolstoy,
Reply
#20
David Guyatt Wrote:There was an excellent tv drama series called A Very British Coup broadcast by Channel 4 in the 1980's on this.

There was also a very good docudrama on TV about this back in 2006 called The Plot Against Harold Wilson by the BBC (that will never happen again now the Beeb is so neutered).

I managed to procure a copy of 'A Very British Coup' and 'The Plot Against Wilson' is on this thread. And with RK's additional video drama just added it looks like I'm set for the day. Books will arrive in the next day or so I am told.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply


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