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Austerity & Fascism In Greece – The Real 1% Doctrine
#51
Woops! How did that happen?

Quote:

Greek Secret Service Removes Golden Dawn Investigating Officer

By Nicky Mariam Onti on September 27, 2013 In News, Politics

On Sept. 27 it became known that the head of the Third Division Counterintelligence, who had the overall responsibility of the investigations for Golden Dawn acts, was suddenly removed from the National Intelligence Service (EYP).
His removal from the Service took place on the morning of Sept. 27, but no official explanation was given.
According to the Greek Ministry of Public Order and Citizen Protection circles, the above mentioned dismissed officer is a close relative of a Golden Dawn MP. The question arises as to whether or not the National Intelligence Service knew that the person who undertook to conduct the investigation into the acts of Golden Dawn was a close relative of a deputy of the party being investigated.
It was also reported that this EYP officer was among the accused in the famous case of the Pakistanis' abduction by EYP.
The investigating officer also had access to private telephone conversations between Golden Dawn MP's, after the decision of the Prosecutor of the Supreme Court of Greece to lift the telephone privacy of some MP's of the fascist party. According to the same information his close associate is to be replaced as well.

The information of these recordings also contains evidence of links between Golden Dawn officials and underworld, criminal figures. Earlier this week, deputy Supreme Court prosecutor Haralambos Vourliotis, was handed files with 32 cases of incidents involving Golden Dawn party members.
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/09/...g-officer/
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#52
Parliament lifts immunity of four Golden Dawn MPs

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Greek Parliament on Wednesday voted to lift the immunity of four Golden Dawn deputies. Immunity was lifted for Eleni Zaroulia, Ilias Kasidiaris, Ilias Panayiotaros and Stathis Boukouras. Immunity was also lifted for Independent Greeks deputy Vassilis Kapernaros, while a similar request for SYRIZA MP Maria Diakaki was rejected.
Taking part in the vote on Wednesday were 236 MPs, with 235 voting in favor of lifting immunity for Zaroulia,Panayiotaros and Boukouras and 234 deputies voting in favor of lifting immunity for Kasidiaris.
Zaroulia is facing charges for allegedly carrying a bullet inside her bag during a visit to her husband and Golden Dawn party chief Nikos Michaloliakos, currently in pre-trial custody at Korydallos Prison along with second-in-command Christos Pappas. Kasidiaris, Boukouras and Panayiotaros are being charged for rioting.
Tensions rose when the ultra nationalist Golden Dawn MPs walked out of the session in protest to House Speaker Christos Markogiannakis not calling out the names of Michaloliakos and Pappas during the voting procedure.
Markogiannakis argued that the names of the imprisoned Golden Dawn deputies were announced during a second reading of the MPs list.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_art...013_526551
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#53
Police suspect gunmen picked Golden Dawn victims specifically

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The three victims of the gunmen who opened fire outside Golden Dawn's offices in northern Athens, killing two of the far-right party's members, were not chosen by chance, police sources told Kathimerini on Tuesday.
A senior officer said that the two attackers, one of whom fired a total of 13 shots on Friday night, intended to target members from the Neo Iraklio office as it was Golden Dawn's second most influential "cell" after the one in Nikaia, southern Athens. Several members of the latter cell, including MP Yiannis Lagos, were arrested following the murder of Pavlos Fyssas by another member, Giorgos Roupakias.
Members of the Neo Iraklio cell, which oversaw Golden Dawn's activity in northern Athens, were linked to attacks on immigrants, some taking place on Irakliou Avenue, the same road where the neo-Nazi party's offices are located. In February, a 20-year-old man from northern Athens who had links to the Neo Iraklio cell was arrested on suspicion of carrying out the attacks. Police sought eight others who allegedly took part.
Sources said that Giorgos Fountoulis, who was killed on Friday, and Alexandros Gerontas, who was injured, were known in the area in as Golden Dawn members and this is likely to have marked them as targets. Police also believe that the assailants had monitored Golden Dawn's offices closely as Fountoulis, Gerontas and the third victim, Manolis Kapelonis, were always assigned guard duties together.
The police made public on Tuesday security camera footage of Friday's attack. The grainy CCTV film shows the two assailants passing the building on their motorcycle, which they parked some 50 meters away, and then returning on foot to shoot their victims from a short distance. Although both men were armed, only one of the two fired his gun, identified as a Zastava pistol.
Police said the were releasing the video to encourage more witnesses to come forward.
A little later, a second but much more graphic video was posted on the Zougla.gr website. It showed in much clearer detail the gunman firing at his victims from almost point-blank range and shooting Kapelonis and Fountoulis in the head. The footage shows one of the two men, it is not clear which, rooted to the spot, presumably due to fear, and not taking any action to protect himself. Police sources said that the video, which was reposted on numerous news websites and shown by some channels on their evening news programs, was given to Zougla.gr by Golden Dawn.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_art...013_526454
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#54
Millions for Billions
2014/01/06

[Image: 23_griechenland.gif]ATHENS/BERLIN
(Own report) - New allegations of corruption have been leveled at leading German arms manufacturers. According to a former employee of the Greek defense ministry and several mediators of the arms industry, German arms manufacturers paid millions in bribes to induce Athens to purchase German weaponry, worth several billion Euros. Krauss-Maffei Wegmann and Rheinmetall were among the companies named. These deals helped inflate the country's debts and were, therefore, in part responsible for escalating the crisis. Others, such as Siemens, had also paid millions in bribes to land lucrative contracts from Athens. According to a Greek journalist, who has done extensive research on corruption in Greece, German companies are the "main beneficiaries" of Greece joining the Euro zone because they subsequently profited from highly lucrative Greek government contracts. The sumptuous contracts helped plunge Greece into crisis while they, at the same time, helped the German industry to blaze its trail to the predominant position in Europe.


Bribes
New allegations of bribery have been leveled at leading German arms manufacturers. According to a former employee of the Greek defense ministry and several mediators of the arms industry, who have been questioned by the magistrate's office in Athens, companies such as Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, Rheinmetall and Atlas have paid large bribes to sell arms to the Greek Armed Forces. The former General Secretary for Procurements of the Greek Defense Ministry, Antonios Kantas, admitted having accepted approximately eight million Euros in bribes, 3.2 million had come from Germany. According to reports, a large portion had been invested in a deal for 170 "Leopard 2" battle tanks, concluded in 2003, and for which Greece had paid 1.7 billion Euros over the past few years - despite the crisis. The deals also included the modernization of submarines, the sale of the "Asrad" anti-aircraft system and the delivery of self-propelled PzH 2000 howitzers. Rheinmetall and Krauss-Maffei Wegmann are denying they paid bribes.[1]

World's Fifth Largest Arms Procurer
This was not the first time German arms deals with Greece have ended up in court. In the fall of 2013, the former Greek Defense Minister, Akis Tsochatzopoulos, was sentenced to 20 years in prison: He had accepted bribes worth 55 million Euros to purchase Russian-made anti-aircraft missiles and German-made 214-type submarines, developed by the HDW ship building company in Kiel. The bribes had been transmitted by HDW partner Ferrostaal (Essen). This deal, valued at about 2.85 billion Euros, was concluded in 2000. Shortly after the crisis in Greece clearly escalated, critics were already pointing out that the multi-billion German arms deals were playing a major role in Athens' becoming the world's fifth largest arms procurer for the period from 2005 to 2009.[2] These arms imports had exacerbated the Greek government's debts to the point where the country finally plunged completely into a crisis.

At the Taxpayers' Expense
German arms manufacturers are not the only ones to land lucrative deals through bribes in Athens. The Siemens Corp.'s bribes, for example, have also caused a storm. Since the late 1990s, Siemens has been receiving lucrative contracts from Greece. Siemens has digitalized the telephone network, provided communications systems for the Armed Forces and participated in establishing an electronic surveillance system for the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens. This system had been planned as a test-run for new "anti-terror" technology. Even though it was not operative on time,[3] it provided the corporation attractive dividends. To land that contract, Siemens had paid opulent bribes - the rumor is 15 million Euros per year. No problem, because it turned out to be profitable for Siemens: After all, the company could ultimately shift the costs of corruption onto the Greek population. A company, which pays "bribes in a government contract, can add a few million to its operating margin," explained an investigator in describing the system: "The excessive prices are at the taxpayers' expense."[4]

Got Off Cheap
The Siemens Corp. and the German manager in charge, got off cheap. For example, Michalis Christoforakos, the former Siemens manager in Greece, could avoid legal proceedings in Athens by fleeing to Munich, where he received a suspended sentence in one trial and was fined 350,000 Euros in a second. German courts found Christoforakos guilty in 2009, but refused to extradite him to Greek courts on the grounds that the charges pending against him in Greece would have surpassed the German statute of limitations. Two other Siemens managers have been fined €45,000 and €250,000 by German courts respectively, and because one must not answer twice for the same charges ("double jeopardy"), they cannot be tried again in Greece, where they risk a much harsher sentence. The sentence in Greece would risk being harsher because of the extent of the damage corruption has inflicted on the country. In Athens, a parliamentary committee of inquiry has calculated the damages inflicted solely by the Siemens Corp. at more than two billion Euros. In early 2012, Siemens reached an agreement with the Greek government: to waive the compensation for 80 million Euros in outstanding Greek financial obligations, to donate 90 million Euros for educational and anti-corruption programs and to expand its activities in Greece by about 100 million Euros. In Greece, this has been widely criticized as totally insufficient.

Primary Beneficiaries of Joining the Euro Zone
The discovery of the bribery by the arms industry and the Siemens Corp. signifies, by no means, that all cases of German corruption in Greece have been uncovered. In June 2013, the Deutsche Bahn AG admitted that its subsidiary, DB International, has siphoned off finances to obtain contracts to build the Metro in Athens.[5] Earlier, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission accused Daimler of having landed its Greek business deals with bribes.[6] According to critics, this all has system. "The primary beneficiaries" of Greece's joining the Euro zone have been German companies, explained Tasos Telloglou, a journalist, who has done extensive research on Greek corruption. Since then, they have been given lucrative contracts "particularly from the government."[7] With these contracts, German exports to Greece - which in 2002 were at about five billion Euros - had soared by 60 percent until 2008, reaching eight billion Euros.

Door Opener
Even though the German Chancellery's decision to vote in favor of Greece's joining the Euro zone in the spring of 2000 has been repeatedly criticized, it has proven beneficial for German industry. According to reports, the Chancellery had received indications from Brussels that the Greek trade balance was already showing a "very large deficit," which could create enormous problems in a common currency.[8] This assessment, considered insignificant by Chancellor Schröder's cabinet, has been confirmed. On the other hand, the German industry has succeeded in consolidating its predominance over Europe with its excessive exports - not only, but also - to Greece.[9] The bribes paid in Athens, which are now fueling headlines, have opened some of the doors along this path.

Further information and background on Germany's policy toward Greece can be found here: Die Folgen des Spardiktats, Ausgehöhlte Demokratie, Protectorate-Like, Patterned after the Treuhand, Impoverishment Made in Germany, The Traits of the Crisis, On the Relevance of Democracy, Only Misunderstandings, Squeeze Dry and Obscure and Austerity Kills.

[1] Griechischer Ex-Spitzenbeamter gesteht Schmiergeld-Deal um deutsche Panzer. http://www.sueddeutsche.de 28.12.2013. Druck auf deutsche Rüstungsfirmen steigt. http://www.sueddeutsche.de 04.01.2013.
[2] Jan Grebe, Jerry Sommer: Griechenland: Hohe Militärausgaben trotz Finanzkrise, BICC Focus 9, Juli 2010.
[3] Minas Samatas: Security and Surveillance in the Athens 2004 Olympics. Some Lessons From a Troubled Story, in: International Criminal Justice Review, September 2007.
[4] Jörg Schmitt: Ein paar Millionen draufschlagen. http://www.spiegel.de 10.05.2010.
[5] Bahn-Tochter zahlte Schmiergeld in Griechenland. http://www.focus.de 18.06.2013.
[6] USA klagen Daimler an; http://www.n-tv.de 24.03.2010.
[7] Abgründe an Korruption - Deutsche U-Boote für Griechenland. Frontal21, Sendung vom 12.11.2013.
[8] Kanzleramt kannte Griechenland-Risiken schon vor Eurostart. http://www.stern.de 20.06.2012.
[9] See also Der deutsche Glaube ans Sparen and Hartz IV for Everyone
http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/58707
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#55

More incriminating Golden Dawn photos emerge

January 16, 2014 · by johnp · in Uncategorized
Man who confessed to hip-hop singer's killing appears in photos

Photographs show Golden Dawn members and supporters including suspects in the murder of Pavlos Fyssas posing with weapons, engaging in training and giving Nazi salutes

Photographs show Golden Dawn members and supporters including suspects in the murder of Pavlos Fyssas posing with weapons, engaging in training and giving Nazi salutes
Golden Dawn members in training' More photographs showing members of neonazi Golden Dawn including suspects accused of murder posing with weapons and Nazi symbols and engaging in training have been published.
Ta Nea, which published the images, quoted police and judicial sources as saying they were found on the personal computers of two Golden Dawn figures accused of the murder of Pavlos Fyssas, the antifascist singer stabbed to death in September.
The images will be forwarded by the police crime lab to investigating magistrate Ioanna Klapa, who is handling the case against Golden Dawn members accused of founding or involvement in a criminal organisation, the report said.
The authorities view the images as confirmation of Golden Dawn's paramilitary nature.
Among the figures depicted in the photographs are Yiorgos Roupakias, who has confessed to stabbing Fyssas, standing behind Golden Dawn MP Ilias Panagiotaros, which undermines Golden Dawn statements that Roupakias was relatively unknown within the party.
In its report on the images, To Vima one of the computers on which the photographs were found belongs to Yiorgos Patelis, the head of the Golden Dawn branch in Nikea, Piraeus, who has been remanded in prison on charges relating to Fyssas' murder.
It said police had identified more than ten members of the Nikea cell in the photographs, at least two of which are from a Golden Dawn training camp held near the River Neda, in the western Peloponnese, during the summer of 2013.
[Image: gd11-thumb-medium.jpg]Yiorgos Roupakias (front, 2nd from left), who confessed to the killing of Pavlos Fyssas, gives the Nazi salute along with other Golden Dawn supporters

[Image: gd8-thumb-medium.jpg] [Image: gd10-thumb-medium.jpg] Yiorgos Roupakias (front, 2nd from left), who confessed to the killing of Pavlos Fyssas, poses with other Golden Dawn supporters [Image: gd12-thumb-medium.jpg] Golden Dawn MP Ilias Panagiotaros (front) and Yiorgos Roupakias, who has confessed to the killing of Pavlos Fyssas [Image: gd6-thumb-medium.jpg] A man poses with a weapon at a Golden Dawn training camp held near the River Neda, in the western Peloponnese, during the summer of 2013 [Image: gd14-thumb-medium.jpg] A man gives the Nazi salute at a Golden Dawn training camp held near the River Neda, in the western Peloponnese, during the summer of 2013 [Image: gd7-thumb-medium.jpg] [Image: gd15-thumb-medium.jpg] [Image: gd3-thumb-medium.jpg] [Image: gd13-thumb-medium.jpg] A man poses with a weapon at a Golden Dawn training camp held near the River Neda, in the western Peloponnese, during the summer of 2013 [Image: gd9-thumb-medium.jpg] [Image: gd2-thumb-medium.jpg] [URL="http://www.enetenglish.gr/resources/2014-01/gd5-thumb-large.jpg"] [Image: gd5-thumb-medium.jpg]

http://www.anti-fascists-online.com/more...os-emerge/
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"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#56
It is all so much theatre.

Quote:

Samaras close aide resigns over Golden Dawn contacts

Video shows cabinet secretary Takis Baltakos in conversation with Ilias Kasidiaris
Updated At: 19:20 Wednesday 2 April 2014
Author: Damian Mac Con Uladh
Neonazi Golden Dawn releases video showing cabinet secretary Takis Baltakos, a close aide of Antonis Samaras, engaging in what appears of be a friendly conversation with Golden Dawn MP Ilias Kasidiaris over the crackdown on the neonazi party
[Image: mpaltakos-thumb-large-thumb-medium.jpg] Takis Baltakos A senior aide to Antonis Samaras has resigned after a video emerged showing him telling a leading Golden Dawn MP that the crackdown on the neonazi party following the murder of hip-hop singer Pavlos Fyssas was designed to stem the loss of New Democracy votes.
The video shows Takis Baltakos, appointed to the powerful position of cabinet secretary by the prime minister in June 2012, engaging in what appears of be a friendly conversation with Golden Dawn MP Ilias Kasidiaris.
During the conversation, Baltakos can he heard saying that there was no evidence to substantiate the crackdown on Golden Dawn following Fyssas fatal stabbing by a Golden Dawn supporter last September.

Video with English subtitles from Kostas Kallergis' When the Crisis hit the Fan blog

He says that Justice Minister Haralambos Athanassiou and Public Order Minister Nikos Dendias appealed to the devout beliefs of Supreme Court chief prosecutor Efterpi Koutzamani to convince her that Golden Dawn were "pagans, idolaters, Nazis and opposed to Christianity".
Baltakos also said that the crackdown on Golden Dawn was to stop the party drawing support from New Democracy.
Kasidiaris released transcripts of the conversation in parliament on Wednesday. The 2.5-minute video was uploaded earlier to a Russian video sharing website.
Announcing his resignation, Baltakos said that due to the close proximity of the offices of his general secretariat with Golden Dawn's offices, he had "frequent coincidental meetings with MPs of that party [Golden Dawn]".
"In one of those random meetings, immediately after the detention of [Golden Dawn MPs] Michaloliakos, Pappas and Lagos, Mr Kasidiaris asked to see me privately.

"He began the conversation by accusing me of participating in a conspiracy against them, an accusation directed me constantly in the days beforehand by him and other members of Golden Dawn.

"I denied this and tried to get rid of the pressure. In the course of this discussion, everything I said was to serve that purpose and no other, ie to avoid this pressure, since this 'conspiracy' had nothing to do with reality.

"In any case, in the following days, when new information emerged, I had the opportunity to tell Mr Kasidiaris and others - and even in the presence of many witnesses - that there was no collusion or conspiracy against them, conversations with this deputy has not disclosed.

"Due to the racket this has created, for reasons of personal sensitivity I have submitted my resignation and I apologise for the inconvenience caused."
Assault
Following the revelation that the conversation had taken place involving Baltakos, his son, a serving member of the coastguard's sub-aqua unit, turned up at parliament and physically assaulted and verbally abused Golden Dawn MPs (see video below). Cursing wildly, he proceeded to kick the doors of three Golden Dawn deputies, before reportedly striking Michail Aravanitis twice in the face, punching Nikos Kouzilos and kicking Artemis Mathaiopoulos.





EnetEnglish's translation of the transcript (updated) Kasidiaris: To begin with when I came out [of remand], can you tell me how Samaras took it?
Baltakos: He was in America then.
Kasidiaris: Yes, he was in America, but I heard he nearly had a stroke.
Baltakos: It was mad! It was crazy, fucking hell ... he didn't call me, I told him what you were doing ... I had told him. He wouldn't [therefore] tell me about these things. He got the other two and he fucked them out it: [Justice Minister Haralambos] Athanassiou and [Public Order Minister Nikos] Dendias. "You made a fool out of me, you tricked me, you humiliated me." Because the day before, Samaras had made a statement at the American Zionist conference [American Jewish Congress] that "They are finished, I busted them, busted them, it's all over!" And the next day you're released from jail.
Kasidiaris: What happened with the investigating magistrates who let us out at the crucial moment? After they let us out, they got the others and did a U-turn.
Baltakos: They let you out for the simple reason that there is no evidence.
Kasidiaris: Yes, good, there was nothing.
Baltakos: And no none picked up the phone to pressurise them because everyone thought it was so obvious ... everyone took it for granted: "But what can the investigating magistrate do?" The investigating magistrate had no evidence! Nothing!
Kasidiaris: And he had none for the others either ...
Baltakos: But there was for the others … [he makes the gesture of holding a phone with his hand]
Kasidiaris: Who's to blame for that?
Baltakos: Both of them.
Kasidiaris: Dendias, Athanassiou?
Baltakos: Who else?
Kasidiaris: And did Samaras have to say? Was he aware of what what was going on?
Baltakos: No, he didn't at the start ... but when he saw the opinion polls ... he thought, the bourgeois that he is, that all this terrible. "They'll [Golden Dawn] will go down to 2%, he says" ... And I said: "I'm telling you, they will go up to 20%." He says: "You're an asshole."
Kasidiaris: Who told him to do all this?
Baltakos: First of all, he's afraid for himself. Because you are cutting his lead over Syriza.
Kasidiaris: We take votes, is that it?
Baltakos: That makes sense.
Kasidiaris: And because we take his votes he puts us jail?
Baltakos: Motherfucker ... an incredible thing, unbelievable.
Kasidiaris: And what about what [former justice minister] Roupakiotis said?
Baltakos: That's for sure, since he did it the week he was going there.
Kasidiaris: [Supreme Court chief prosecutor Efterpi] Koutzamani, the things she did, I have information that she is totally on the right.
Baltakos: [Makes the sign of the cross]
Kasidiaris: She's so devout.
Baltakos: Yes.
Kasidiaris: How did she do these disgraceful things with [Supreme Court deputy prosecutor Haralambos] Vourliotis and come up with these findings?
Baltakos: They convinced her that "they are pagans, idolaters, Nazis and opposed to Christianity".
Kasidiaris: Who persuaded her of all that?
Baltakos: Athanassiou and Dendias.
Kasidiaris: You should go to the prosecutor and tell him who set up this whole conspiracy: that Athanassiou gave orders to Koutzamani, that Samaras had given orders to Athanassiou, and all of them should go on trial. If you are a just man, this is what you should do.
Baltakos: If I'm do this now, she will order a preliminary investigation lasting a half an hour and they will shelve it.
Kasidiaris: You think so?
Baltakos: Well, of course! Am I going to do that with Samaras in government? To which prosecutor would I go? Koutzamani is a prosecutor. I'm going to denounce Koutzamani to herself ?
Kasidiaris: How did Koutzamani become Supreme Court prosecutor?
Baltakos: Because she's from the same village.
Kasidiaris: So now she's repaying the debt.
Baltakos: Yes, she's from the same village. Ok, not from the same village, but from a nearby village. They've been in the same competition, they are almost the same age. They are compatriots, there's nothing more to it."
More later ...



Who is Takis Baltakos? Takis Baltakos was appointed by Antonis Samaras to the key political position of government general secretary in June 2012.
He has been identified with the most rightwing section of New Democracy, and is said to have "led opposition" to proposals crackdown on neonazi Golden Dawn.
In December 2012, he told the head of the National Commission for Human Rights, Kostis Papaioannou, that "he doesn't care, in his capacity as a representative of the government and New Democracy, about the committee's work and human rights, nor about the country's international obligations". Papaioannou was presenting his annual report to the government. He said Baltakos opened it at a chapter on racist violence and threw it on the table, saying, "We are not interested in the human rights of foreigners."
In 2013, he is alleged to have said that cooperation between New Democracy and Golden Dawn in future elections was "undesirable but not an unlikely possibility".
In May 2013, it was reported that he was one of the key officials involved in holding up an antiracism bill on the grounds that it could "potentially cause problems". The bill would have outlawed incitement against people because of their race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation, and impose jail sentences of up to six years on offenders.
Baltakos was a leading voice against moving against Golden Dawn, up to September 2013, when the government was pushed into taking action after the murder of Pavlos Fyssas. According to the Wall Street Journal, Baltakos said that a crackdown "would backfire, winning the party sympathy from voters disgusted with the establishment and alienating conservative constituencies such as the army and church."
Last week, he said he has been an "anticommunist" all his life and that the Greek left has "plagued" the country since 1942, the year it took up arms against the occupying Nazis.
EnetEnglish, Eleftherotypia
http://www.enetenglish.gr/?i=news.en.article&id=1839
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#57
April 24, 2014 Review
[Image: golden-drawn-graffit-1-150x72.jpg]
Written by Liz Fekete
A review of a report on the extent of Golden Dawn's penetration of the Greek state.
An excellent free downloadable report published by the Rosa Luxemburg Foundation is not only an essential primer for [Image: report-cover-greece.png]understanding the parliamentary rise of the neo-nazi criminal organisation Golden Dawn (GD), but a much-needed corrective to academic fashions that see the far Right as emblematic of extremist tendencies on the margins of society. Mapping ultra-Right extremism, xenophobia and racism within the Greek state apparatus is written by five of Greece's most serious academic and legal experts. As its title suggests, the aim of the report is to provide an explanation of why, until moves to criminalise and dismantle it were instigated in September 2013, GD was so successful in penetrating the state apparatus, particularly the police and the military. Its conclusion that GD reflects a convergence of affinities and affiliations at both the periphery and centre of Greek society is one that needs to be absorbed by all those studying and challenging fascism in other European contexts.
The centrality of the state in bolstering GD ideas
Divided into five chapters and running to nearly 100 pages, Mapping ultra-Right extremism is more like a book than a report. It draws on the deep knowledge of its authors and provides a history of the relationship between GD and the police, judiciary, military and church. At first glance, it might seem odd to include a chapter on the Orthodox Church of Greece. But the Greek Constitution states that the prevailing religion in Greece is that of the Eastern Orthodox Church of Christ', and priests are public servants paid by the government. This in itself makes the Orthodox Church worthy of consideration as part of the state apparatus. But historically, the Orthodox Church co-operated with fascism and dictatorship and never underwent a political cleansing during the transition to democracy. Today, its anti-Communist ideology, its deep hatred of Islam, its crusading anti-homosexual stance, has led it to bolster neo-nazism by disguising' its ideology as religiously right'.
[Image: Pavlos-picture1-300x180.jpg]Pavlos Fyssas, an anti-fascist rapper murdered by Golden Dawn member Pavlos Roupakias

After the murder of the anti-fascist Pavlos Fyssas on 17 September 2013, the New Democracy/Pasok government moved swiftly to dismantle GD. The myth took hold that the Greek state acted out of disgust at the young left-wing musician's death. But the authors are sceptical, as the criminal activities of GD including the murder of at least one Pakistani migrant were well known prior to this. Could it be that the government moved to save itself?
Anti-democratic tendencies within the state
The chapter on the military by Dimosthenis Papadatos-Anagnostopoulos gives us pause to doubt the government's self-serving narrative. The day before the murder of Pavlos, the Special Forces Reserve Officers Community announced online its intent to stage a coup d'état on 28 September 2013. It was on that day that the leader of GD, Nikos Michaloliakos MP, and four of its MPs were arrested, and investigations started into claims that key military camps had been used as training sites for GD, with the army's connivance. Up until this point, the official line was that there were only droplets' of support for GD in the military and police. Suddenly the Minister of Public Order and Citizen Protection, who had previously threatened to sue the Guardian when it raised accusations of official tolerance of GD and the police torture of anti-fascists, was leading the hunt for the Nazi murderers.
As the chapter on the police makes clear, there was far, far more than mere droplets' of support for GD amongst the police and the military. What had taken place within the Hellenic Police was a deep-seated systematic intrusion and infiltration' by GD. This had first come to public attention in 2001, when an internal police document was leaked showing that the police had used GD, posing as indignant citizens', to beat up left-wing demonstrators at the annual rally commemorating over twenty students murdered during the 1973 Athens Polytechnic uprising against the Greek military junta. (There is a long history of the Greek state employing criminal fraternities to act as informants and provocateurs, and to beat up students and Leftists). In fact, the government could only dismantle the neo-nazi party after first purging the police of GD sympathisers. A week after Pavlos Fyssas' assassination the government announced the resignation of some of the country's leading police officers, while others were simply replaced or relocated (including the head of the Special Anti-Terrorist Unit, the head of the Division of Weapons and Explosives and officers from the rapid support unit, DELTA). As one GD MP stated at the moment of his arrest, They dismantled the whole of the police and the NIS [National Intelligence Service] in order to arrest us.'
Dimitris Christopoulos, who also edited the report, has done a great job in documenting GD's infiltration of the police, unearthing the wider undemocratic trends in policing behind the current known facts. Christopoulos shows how the authoritarian mentality of the police and their engagement in methods of covert policing and practices such as torture, associated with the two dictatorships, have now resurfaced in response to immigration. For the Border Guard and the Special Guard, recently created, poorly educated and badly trained units whose numbers and powers are constantly growing, immigrants replaced Communists as the greatest threat facing the nation. And another new corps was created, in central Athens: the infamous DELTA squad, made up of police officers who had served in the army special force. Initially formed to crack down on attacks on property by anarchists, it soon gained a reputation for acting with excessive cruelty' towards left-wing demonstrators, and for attacking migrants. And it was in this poorly educated squad that the ultra-right snake found a suitable environment to lay its eggs'.
The centrality of the judiciary in perpetuating GD
Racial violence is given a more thorough treatment in the chapter by Clio Papapantoleon which focuses on the failures of the judiciary. A number of outrageous judicial decisions are charted, starting with the decision to acquit GD MP Elias Kasidiaris of charges arising from his assaulting and punching two female MPs during a live television show. Judges declared his innocence on the legally water-tight ground that both the defendant and his organisation condemn violence'. The chapter contrasts the courts' upholding of the blasphemy laws against artists with its failure to use incitement provisions against a number of GD MPs.
[Image: protest-of-christ1-300x187.jpg]Protest by religious groups and Golden Dawn against the performance of Corpus Christi in Athens in 2012

Over several weeks in 2012, the police and prosecution service looked the other way while the Chytirio Theatre in Athens came under siege from rioting religious citizens', clergymen and GD members who threatened to kill actors performing in the play Corpus Christi, finally beating them up and causing substantial damage to the theatre. In the end, the Athens prosecutor did take decisive action prosecuting the actors and producers of the play (including the director, choreographer and lightning technicians) for malicious blasphemy and defamation of religion! (Seemingly as an afterthought, one GD MP was singled out for prosecution.) Case after case shows bias within the judiciary, with a lenient approach to GD crimes. One reads this chapter on the judiciary in a mood of angry disbelief. As the authors rightly state, an ethnocentric approach to the law in Greece is reproducing the culture of the ultra-Right and establishing it as the normative horizon (i.e. the common view of what is just) of the Greek political community.
Wider lessons
For the authors, the Greek ultra-right symptom is nothing but an extreme version of the European symptom'. The burning question they ask, was the impunity granted to Nazi violence a product of tolerance due to affiliation or of distance due to fear', is one that they have attempted to answer through deep study of the wider political culture. In the UK context we need to learn from the report's methodology. For instance, we could take a long hard look at the Crown Prosecution Service to see what role it has played in the growth of the EDL. Those who believe that the situation in the UK has nothing in common with Greece should ask themselves this question: Why is it that Tommy Robinson is currently languishing in Woodhill Prison, not for systematic acts of incitement and intimidation of Muslim neighbourhoods across the UK over a span of six years, but for a £160,000 mortgage fraud?



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"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#58
Golden Dawn depositions continue with ejected MP

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The two prosecutors investigating the Neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party in order to determine whether it constitutes a criminal organization are pushing ahead with the depositions of members of the party as the 18-month period of their pre-trial custody is set to expire and they may have to be released.
The deposition which is expected to generate the most interest is that of Stathis Boukouras, who will appear before prosecutors Ioanna Klapa and Maria Dimitropoulou on Monday. Boukouras is one of two MPs to have distanced himself from the party after being ejected in March for saying that he was considering becoming an independent. In a later appearance in Parliament, he had said that he is "not a fascist or a Nazi."
The second renegade is Chrysovalantis Alexopoulos, who said when he quit the party in March that he had been unaware of Golden Dawn's "criminal activities." His deposition is set for June 16.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_art...014_540210
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#59

SS songs and antisemitism: the week Golden Dawn turned openly Nazi

Supporters of the far-right party gave Hitler salutes and sang the Horst Wessel song outside parliament last week. Helena Smith reports from Athens on how Golden Dawn has taken on a sinister new tone

Golden Dawn leader hits out at Greek parliament's 'plot' to prosecute him



[Image: Golden-Dawn-rally-011.jpg] Golden Dawn supporters wave party and Greek national flags during a rally outside parliament on 4 June. Photograph: REX/LOSMI CHOBI

It has been a bad week for democracy in Athens. All around this great Greek city, the politics of hate now lurk. On Friday I got a taste of it in the tiny Italian-style cafe I frequent off Syntagma Square.
It arrived in the form of two middle-aged men, both supporters of the neo-fascist Golden Dawn and, by their own account, the holders of university degrees, well-travelled and well-informed. Over espressos, they began to engage in an animated discussion about all that is wrong with Greece.
The first, a self-described businessman decked out in designer suit, brogues and silk tie, blamed the country's economic collapse on malfeasance, corruption and uncontrolled immigration. "The only way to teach our filthy politicians is to bring in Golden Dawn," he trilled, his eyes locked in a fierce glare. "These gentlemen are patriots, proud Greek nationalists, and they know how to deal with the scum, the foreigners who never pay taxes, who steal our jobs, who have taken over our streets."
Dismissing charges that Golden Dawn is a criminal gang masquerading as a political group, the second a self-described government employee said the far right was the best response yet to the great Jewish conspiracy of an interconnected banking system that has come with globalisation. "Let's not forget all the faggots and the Jews, the wankers who control the banks, the foreigners who are behind them, who came in and fucked Greece," he insisted. "The criminals who have governed us, who have robbed us of our future, of our dreams, need a big thwack."
Last Wednesday Greece got that jolt when Nikos Michaloliakos, Golden Dawn's imprisoned leader who stands accused of murder and assault made his first public appearance in almost nine months. The politics of hate took over Athens as the 58-year-old was hauled before parliament, ahead of a vote to lift his immunity from prosecution, on further charges of illegal weapons possession.
Emboldened by its recent success in European and local elections in which the party emerged as the country's third biggest political force, thanks to a softening of image that has attracted ever-growing numbers of the middle class the extremists drove home the message that they were not only on the rebound but here to stay. And as they ran roughshod through the house of democracy, hurling abuse at other MPs in an unprecedented display of violence and vulgarity, there was no mistaking what Golden Dawn is: a party of neo-Nazi creed determined to overturn the democratic order. For, far from being contrite, the handcuffed Michaloliakos was in unusually aggressive mood, giving Nazi salutes, telling the house speaker to "shut up", and instructing guards to take their hands off him.
Outside, black-shirted Golden Dawn supporters, lined up in military formation in Syntagma Square, gave a hearty rendition of the Nazi Horst Wessel song albeit with Greek lyrics. All this was a far cry from the party's recent efforts to distance itself from the thuggery and racist rhetoric from which it was born.
"That day democracy felt a bit weak," said Pavlos Tzimas, a political commentator who has watched the party's rise from its fringe group beginnings in the early 1980s. "After all the revelations [about criminal activity], after all the prosecutions against its MPs, it still has the nerve to act in such a way, in scenes of hate that, frankly, I cannot recall ever being seen inside the parliament," he sighed. "Golden Dawn is not a passing phase, it will not disappear with the end of the crisis, it feels untouchable, it fears nothing, and what we saw this week is its real face. It is not like other extremist parties in Europe. It is a true neo-Nazi force whose aim is to use democracy to destroy democracy."
The crackdown against Golden Dawn triggered by the killing of an anti-fascist rapper at the hands of a self-confessed party cadre last September was meant not only to bring offenders to justice but reverse the group's seemingly unstoppable ascent. At first the round-up of party leaders seemed to dent the ultranationalists' popularity. For the first time since June 2012, when it was catapulted into parliament with 6.9% of the vote and 18 deputies, its ratings dipped. But in an alarming display of rehabilitation, the neo-fascists won 9.4% of the vote in the European elections on 25 May and, in the race for the Athens mayoralty on 18 May, were backed by 16.1% of the electorate even though its candidate, Ilias Kasidiaris, sports a swastika tattoo and assaulted two leftwing female politicians during a live TV show. In both cases the results were the most shocking endorsement yet of the anti-liberal party.
What worries Tzimas most is not just the coarsening of public debate but the "banalisation of violence" that is now stalking Greece. "We seem to be getting used to it, and that frightens me," he said.
In an explosive political climate, where popular rage is at boiling point nearly five years into the country's worst crisis in living memory, the politics of hate so embodied by Golden Dawn is becoming increasingly pervasive. "Who cares if six million Jews were exterminated?" asked the businessman back at the cafe, in a shocking endorsement of that reality. "I don't care if they were turned into soap. What I care about is the salary I have lost, the never-ending taxes I am forced to pay, the criminals who rule this country, the anger I carry inside."
In a global survey released by the Anti-Defamation League last month, Greece at 69% was found to be the most antisemitic country in Europe.
"This is the deeper explanation for the growth of Golden Dawn," says Dimitris Psarras, author of The Black Bible of Golden Dawn, which chronicles the party's meteoric rise. "Greece has deep cultural differences with the rest of Europe. After the second world war, it did not undergo real democratisation because we had civil war [1946-49]. And after that the deep state was never really purged [of extreme rightwing elements]. Even when it was a small group, Golden Dawn had ties to the Greek state."
The party's fielding of two retired generals on its European election ticket was testimony to those ties. With three Golden Dawn MEPs now about to take seats in Brussels, the burning question for many is how to confront the extremists. Following the poll, even France's Front National leader, Marine Le Pen, ruled out relations with them.
The independent MP and prominent novelist Petros Tatsopoulos, himself the focus of much of the fascists' fury in parliament last week, thinks there is no other way but to ban Golden Dawn. "It was a huge, historic mistake on the part of our parliament not to de-legitimise Golden Dawn," said Tatsopoulos, until recently an MP with the radical left. "It should have been banned, not for its Nazi ideology but because it is a paramilitary force … who, if it could, would press ahead with a coup d'état," he told the Observer. "We know how these people work. The fascist poison that Greece is experiencing is not just political, it is poisoning every aspect of social life, the way people think, the way they behave. I honestly believe that the 500,000 Greeks who voted for Golden Dawn were very conscious of what they were doing."
Was democracy in its own birthplace now under threat? "Golden Dawn is on stand-by," he averred. "I don't know how long it will take, but if this voluntary blindness continues, if the crisis goes on, it will be a real threat to democracy in the near future."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/ju...APosition5
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#60
Greece: Fascists At the Gate
Dispatches From The Edge
March 20, 2015

When some 70 members of the neo-Nazi organization Golden Dawn go on trial sometime this spring, there will be more than street thugs and fascist ideologues in the docket, but a tangled web of influence that is likely to engulf Greece's police, national security agency, wealthy oligarchs, and mainstream political parties. While Golden Dawnwith its holocaust denial, its swastikas, and Hitler salutesmakes it look like it inhabits the fringe, in fact the organization has roots deep in the heart of Greece's political culture

Which is precisely what makes it so dangerous.

Golden Dawn's penchant for violence is what led to the charge that it is a criminal organization. It is accused of several murders, as well as attacks on immigrants, leftists, and trade unionists. Raids have uncovered weapon caches. Investigators have also turned up information suggesting that the organization is closely tied to wealthy shipping owners, as well as the National Intelligence Service (EYP) and municipal police departments.

Several lawyers associated with two victims of violence by Party membersa 27-year old Pakistani immigrant stabbed to death last year, and an Afghan immigrant stabbed in 2011 charge that a high level EYP official responsible for surveillance of Golden Dawn has links to the organization. The revelations forced Dimos Kouzilos, director of EYP's third counter-intelligence division, to resign last September.

There were several warning flags about Kouzilos when he was appointed to head the intelligence division by rightwing New Democracy Prime Minister Antonis Samaras. Kouzilos is a relative of a Golden Dawn Parliament member, who is the Party's connection to the shipping industry. Kouzilos is also close to a group of police officers in Nikea, who are currently under investigation for ties to Golden Dawn. Investigators charge that the Nikea police refused to take complaints from refugees and immigrants beaten by Party members, and the police Chief, Dimitris Giovandis, tipped off Golden Dawn about surveillance of the Party.

In handing over the results of their investigation, the lawyers said the "We believe that this information provides an overview of the long-term penetration ands activities of the Nazi criminal gang with the EYP and the police." A report by the Office of Internal Investigation documents 130 cases where Golden Dawn worked with police.

It should hardly come as a surprise that there are close ties between the extreme right and Greek security forces. The current left-right split goes back to 1944 when the British tried to drive out the Communist Partythe backbone of the Greek resistance movement against the Nazi occupation. The split eventually led to the 1946-49 civil war when Communists and leftists fought royalists and former German collaborationists for power. However, the West saw the civil war through the eyes of the then budding Cold War, and, at Britain's request, the U.S. pitched in on the side of the right to defeat the left. In the process of that interventionthen called the Truman DoctrineU.S. intelligence services established close ties with the Greek military.

Those ties continued over the years that followed and were tightened once Greece joined NATO in 1952. The charge that the U.S. encouraged the 1967 fascist coup against the Greek government has never been proven, but many of the "colonels" that initiated the overthrow had close ties to the CIA and the U.S. military.

Golden Dawn was founded by some of the key people who ruled during the 1967-74 junta, and Greek dictator Georgios Papadopoulos, the leader of the "colonels" who led the 1967 coup, groomed the Party's founder and current leader, Nikos Michaloliakos. Papadopoulos was a Nazi collaborator and served with the German "security battalions" that executed 130,000 Greek civilians during WW II. Papadopoulos was trained by the U.S. Army and recruited by the CIA. Indeed, he was the first CIA employee to govern a European country.

Golden Dawn's adherence to Hitler, the symbols of Nazism, and the "Fuehrer principle"investing the Party's leader with absolute authorityis, in part, what has gotten the organization into trouble. According to an investigation by Greek Supreme Court Deputy Prosecutor Haralambos Vourliotis, Golden Dawn is split into two wings, a political wing responsible for the Party's legal face and an operational wing for "carrying out attacks on those deemed enemies of the party." Michaloiakos oversees both wings.

Prosecutors will try to demonstrate that attacks and murders are not the actions of individuals who happen to be members of Golden Dawn, because independent actions are a contradiction to the "Fuehrer principle." Many of the attacks have featured leading members of Golden Dawn and, on occasion, members of Parliament. Indeed, since the leadership and core of the Party were jailed last September, attacks on non-Greeks and leftists have fallen off.

There is a cozy relationship between Golden Dawn and some business people as well, with the Party serving as sort of "Thugs-R-Us" organization. Investigators charge that shortly after two Party MPs visited the shipyards at Piraeus, a Golden Dawn gang attacked Communists who were supporting union workers. Golden Dawn also tried to set up a company union that would have resulted in lower pay and fewer benefits for shipyard workers. In return, shipping owners donated 240,000 Euros to Golden Dawn.

Investigators charge that the Party also raises funds through protection rackets, money laundering and blackmail.

Journalist Dimitris Psarras, who has researched and written about Golden Dawn for decades, argues that the Party is successful not because it plays on the economic crisis, but because for years the governmentboth socialists and conservativesmainstream parties, and the justice system have turned a blind eye to Golden Dawn's growing use of force. It was the murder of Greek anti-fascist rapper/poet Pavlos Fyssas that forced the authorities to finally move on the organization. Killing North Africans was one thing, killing a Greek quite another.

Instead of challenging Golden Dawn in the last election, the New Democracy Party railed against "Marxists," "communists" andpulling a page from the 1946-49 civil war"bandits." Even the center parties, like the Greek Socialist Party (PASOK) and the new Potami Party, condemned both "left and right" as though the two were equivalent.

New Dawn did see its voter base shrink from the 426,025 it won in 2012, to 388,000 in the January election that brought left party Syriza to power. But then New Dawn is less interested in numbers than it is in wielding violence. According to Psarras, the Party's agenda is "to create a climate of civil war, a divide where people have to choose between leftists and rightists."

Some of the mainstream parties have eased Golden Dawn's path by adopting the Party's attacks on Middle East and African immigrants and Muslims, albeit at a less incendiary level. But, as Psarras points out, "Research in political science has long since showed that wherever conservative European parties adopt elements of far-right rhetoric and policy during pre-election periods, the upshot is the strengthening of the extreme far right parties."

That certainly was the case in last year's European Parliamentary elections, when center and right parties in France and Great Britain refused to challenge the racism and Islamophobia of rightwing parties, only to see the latter make strong showings.

According to the Supreme Court's Vourliotis, Golden Dawn believes that "Those who do not belong to the popular community of the race are subhuman. In this category belong foreign immigrants, Roma, those who disagree with their ideas and even people with mental problems." The Party dismisses the Holocaust: "There were no crematoria, it's a lie. Or gas chambers," Michaloliakos said in a 2012 national TV interview. Some 60,000 members of Greece's Jewish population were transported and murdered in the death camps during World War II.

The trial is scheduled for April 20 but might delayed. Golden Dawn members, including Michaloliakos and many members of Parliament, were released Mar. 18 because they can only be held for 18 months in pre-trial detention. The Party, with its ties in the business community and its "wink of the eye" relationship to New Democracythat mainstream center right party apparently printed Golden Dawn's election brochureshas considerable resources to fight the charges. New Dawn has hired more than 100 attorneys.

If convicted, New Dawn members could face up to 20 years in prison, but there is not a great deal of faith among the anti-fascist forces in the justice system. The courts have remained mute in the face of Golden Dawn's increasing use of violence, and some magistrates have been accused of being sympathetic to the organization.

One of the laws the Party is being prosecuted under is Article 187A, which can be a bit tricky. While Golden Dawn is charged with being a criminal organization, murder, assault, and illegal weapons possession, Article 187A kicks in when those crimes take on a political dimension and reach the level of trying to intimidate a group of people or population. But that is a slippery concept, because the prosecution will have to prove "intent." It gives the defense plenty of gray area to work with, particularly if the defense is well financed and the courts are sympathetic.

Thanasis Kampagiannis of "Jail Golden Dawn" warns that the Party will not vanish on its own. "Many are under the impression that if we stop talking about Golden Dawn the problem will somehow disappear. That is not the case. The economic crisis has burnished the organization, but there are other causes that have contributed to its existence and prominence, such as the intensification of state repression and the institutionalization of racism by the dominant parties."

But courts are political entities and respond to popular movements. Anti-fascists are calling on the Greeks and the international community to stay in the streets and demand that Golden Dawn be brought to justice. Germans missed that opportunity with the Nazi Party and paid a terrible price for it.


Thanks to Kia Mistilis, journalist, photographer and editor, for providing material for this column
https://dispatchesfromtheedgeblog.wordpr...-the-gate/
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply


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