A Non-Verbal Symbol For Our Cause

[Keith Millea]

Mark is exactly right about how new posters are greeted here. The inner sanctum of this forum resembles an overblown fraternity, only the hazing period for initiates doesn't seem to end.

Don,

I'm really sorry to see you use the term overblown fraternity.I say that because recently on the EF,another moderator,Gary Loughran,felt the need to defend Evan Burton and his abuse of mod status,to call this forum a "frat house".Maybe you EF mods have more in common than we think.....

What say you?

:monkeypiss:

[Peter Lemkin]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=non...sgaB7oGwAw

[Mark Prior]

It is obvious there are very passionate stances being taken here. They should NOT be taken over me. The important thing is discussing ways in which we can work together for achieving the THE BEST RESULTS FROM THE 50th ANNIVERSARY

And Mr. Drago, I am not in support of a "weaponized" ANYTHING. I did say, waaaay earlier, in this thread that although I didn't oppose a raucous event I didn't want us to look like crazies or nuts. And "raucous," by definition, does not amount to violent. I at no time advocated anything more than a non-violent symbol.

[Seamus Coogan]

Don I shared some of your concerns in your first post here.

I think in the past there have been feeding frenzies. I think in that area is also where you and I have disagreed lol. While I do think there are genuine figures who who have had it coming. Some others not so much, indeed there's some pretty good people I'd like to recommend join the DPF. People that I think would really like the place and CD. As it turns out I am terrible at arranging blind dates lol I.E Marty Hay. While I can imagine somebody going 'phew' I didn't want his mates turning up anyhow lol. Other members here may well have some good buddies who would also like to have a peak. Let's be honest people would you let a pal dive in? I warn everyone whose interested in joining the JFK conversation.

Look I am a member here and I love the place. I know it's not the size of the debate it's the quality. But I am sure there are some quality people out there. I also think some people genuinely want to learn. I like Dawn and Don am banking on Mark being okay after a rocky start (well at least I am hoping). It's up to him really, each forum has it's own quirks and cultures. People like Vas managed to join up here without a ripple, take their time and eventually contribute some really good stuff. Hopefully young Mark can do the same. That's if he is a whipper snapper of course.

As much as I grimaced when CD launched into the classic 'mine is bigger than yours' line again (Jesus here he comes). The frustrating thing for me Don was taking some time out to really chat with Mark trying to prevent this sort of thing happening again. He hasn't really understood the continual war footing the DPF is on. This continual war is something I fully agree with. Now while I reckon we could be a little more careful of friendly fire casualties. Mark probably through share inexperience missed the fact that CD, Jan, Peter, Magda, Dawn, GB and others have encountered the wide eyed innocent routine often. This type of person wastes time and plays cat and mouse. That's fully where some of the DPF's low tolerance comes from. I am not saying Mark is really like that. But holy shit I remember my first time on here. It's like my 'colonel of truth' line. I don't think I'll ever live it down (at least Magda CD and Jan) won't let me lol. Then there was my Billy Joel line and then the one before that.......regardless of my cock ups. It's important to acknowledge the cynicism in particularly where it comes from.

Don it's established that you believed the profiles of Jan and CD were silly (you admitted that they were and cheers for the heads up on who did it). I appreciate you don't have much say over there. Nor do I think Pete's vectoring his frustrations at you is entirely on the money. However, I can feel Pete's frustration about what happened to his posts. That was really bad and after seeing his stuff here, I bet he had some gems go missing. I think you genuinely acknowledge that sucks. I also think you would agree with what he is saying about cleaning up our own backyards before going looking in the neighbors. This is the big problem with peace keeping Don. Invariably you may well end up guarding the war criminals. Or least be perceived to be doing so. I've said this sort of thing to you before, if only in more immature and macho terms. But despite my bullshit then the sentiment is essentially true. The path way to hell as they say, is paved with good intentions. Which I do believe now are genuine.

It's definitely brutal here at times. But as you say some introspection is always needed. Yet given time Don I've found the DPF to be a really rewarding place. Help one thing I tell people to do is not join but read the threads lol. The threads here are full of uninterrupted discussion and information and yeah there are different viewpoints. Take say Jan and Bill Kelly's back and forth over the Middle East. That's actually a really good debate and it's free of the trolls that would pervade the EF. After awhile people like CD can concede to other points of view. But it really takes time for that sort of trust to build. Being on here is akin to serving a form of bizarre apprenticeship in many ways lol. I don't know if this is the right way to go about it myself. But hey CD did actually apologize to Mark, I thought it was very funny and very sincere. Like I said to Mark, CD and others are paying for this site, he actually pays for the privilege of having me critique his forum. He's probably rolling his eyes right now thinking "That ungrateful little wanker, after all I've done for him" ROFL.

Anyhow, best of luck Mark here on this forum. Study up on it, ask around and don't quote Ford rofl. Don send my regards to Willie Law. I'm bloody looking forward to that book. Pete mate be cool. I hope that goes for all of us.

[Don Jeffries]

Thanks for the support, Dawn and Seamus. Keith- didn't remember Gary calling DPF that. That might indicate that there is a fraternity aspect here, or perhaps we do think alike.

Mark- my contributions to this thread have been about you, and the way you were greeted here. I may in fact agree with Charles and others in respect to the ultimate value of your ideas, but I objected to what I felt was the dismissive rudeness you were met with.

I didn't mean to condemn this forum. DPF is what it is; it serves a purpose and I'm happy to be a member for as long as they'll have me. The people that run it have the right to do so as they see fit, just as the people who run the EF, Lancer or any other forum have that right.

Do most of you want to see the research community united? If so, under what general principles could we be united? Agreeing that there was a conspiracy? That it involved powerful movers and shakers? That there is still an ongoing coverup? What could we rally around, to reach a consensus?

[Greg Burnham]

Mark and Don,

Naivete is not a sin, it is a pity.

[Albert Doyle]

EF should allow the banned DPF members back on if they endorse free intellectual opinion. I don't see anything that deserves banning unless the EF has an agenda.


In my opinion action should be given precedent to ivory tower sophistry. I have to nod towards Mark seeing how he is recommending something that does something vs the literary paper warring that the opposition is glad to contain the other side to. However any action must be guided by the Deep Politics principle.

[Greg Burnham]

EF should allow the banned DPF members back on if they endorse free intellectual opinion. I don't see anything that deserves banning unless the EF has an agenda.


In my opinion action should be given precedent to ivory tower sophistry. I have to nod towards Mark seeing how he is recommending something that does something vs the literary paper warring that the opposition is glad to contain the other side to. However any action must be guided by the Deep Politics principle.

Translation in English:

IMO: If those who control the EF endorse freedom of intellectual expression, then they should reinstate those DPF members who were banned. I have to nod toward Mark seeing how he is recommending "productive action" as opposed to the literary paper warring to which the opposition limits itself. However, any action must be guided by the Deep Politics principle.




Albert, I translated / phrased it "productive action", you phrased it "something that does something" -- what is the something that is done? IOW: what is accomplished? A salute? Maybe I can get Little Orphan Annie's decoder ring next Saturday and be sure to buy my Ovaltine, as well. I know it seems that Mr. Prior is being harshly criticized, but this is a war zone. If a combatant was really aware that he was engaged in an actual battle, yet came to the field to aid his new comrades with a weapon that was incapable of hurting the enemy would he be met with open arms and a hardy slap on the back? I think not. Better for the novice to be initiated in Boot Camp than in the trenches.

This is a revolution, Mr. Prior. A revolution of mind. It is not the typical revolution involving violence, nor does it involve the change of any government. It is a revolution that must first take place internally. Only then can the message be heard and take root externally.

It's akin to the phenomenon of "The Hundredth Monkey" --

The Hundredth Monkey

by Ken Keyes

The Japanese monkey, Macaca fuscata, has been observed in the wild for a period of over 30 years. In 1952, on the island of Koshima, scientists were providing monkeys
with sweet potatoes dropped in the sand. The monkeys liked the taste of the raw sweet potatoes, but they found the dirt unpleasant. An 18-month-old female named Imo
found she could solve the problem by washing the potatoes in a nearby stream. She taught this trick to her mother. Her playmates also learned this new way and they taught
their mothers, too.

This cultural innovation was gradually picked up by various monkeys before the eyes of the scientists. Between 1953 and 1958 all of the young monkeys learned to wash the
sandy sweet potatoes to make them more palatable. Only the adults who imitated their children learned this social improvement. Other adults kept eating the dirty sweet potatoes.

Then something startling took place. In the autumn of 1958, a certain number of Koshima monkeys were washing sweet potatoes the exact number is not known.
Let us suppose that when the sun rose one morning there were 99 monkeys on Koshima Island who had learned to wash their sweet potatoes. Let us further suppose that later
that morning the hundred monkey learned to wash potatoes.

THEN IT HAPPENED!

By that evening almost everyone in the tribe was washing sweet potatoes before eating them. The added energy of this hundredth monkey somehow created an ideological breakthrough!

But notice. A most surprising thing observed by these scientists was that the habit of washing sweet potatoes then jumped over the sea. Colonies of monkeys on other islands and the mainland
troop of monkeys at Takasakiyama began washing their sweet potatoes!

=============

It's that kind of thing we seek, Mr. Prior. Although washing potatoes is the subject it is not the point. So too, questions and theories, such as, "Was Oswald on the Steps?" are many times the subject, but not only are they missing the point--they are off the mark, as well. The VALUE of washing potatoes might not have been appreciated intellectually by each monkey directly, but somewhere it was appreciated. Inasmuch as effort is expended on action that adds value to our cause it should be pursued... --leaving the remainder for the rabble.

[Peter Lemkin]

EF should allow the banned DPF members back on if they endorse free intellectual opinion. I don't see anything that deserves banning unless the EF has an agenda.

Fine, now tell that to the EF....though they'd never let any banned person on here back..me least of all.

In my opinion action should be given precedent to ivory tower sophistry. I have to nod towards Mark seeing how he is recommending something that does something vs the literary paper warring that the opposition is glad to contain the other side to. However any action must be guided by the Deep Politics principle.

I've been screaming for a year here about stopping traffic all day and the cities faux 50th activities in DP with an Occupy-type action; and others are calling for hardly noticeable and certainly inscrutable hand-signals...and you call their suggestions actions - as opposed to everyone else's words only?! Each to his own.anta: How about frown buttons?

[Albert Doyle]

Translation in English:



Albert, I translated / phrased it "productive action", you phrased it "something that does something" -- what is the something that is done? IOW: what is accomplished? A salute? Maybe I can get Little Orphan Annie's decoder ring next Saturday and be sure to buy my Ovaltine, as well. I know it seems that Mr. Prior is being harshly criticized, but this is a war zone. If a combatant was really aware that he was engaged in an actual battle, yet came to the field to aid his new comrades with a weapon that was incapable of hurting the enemy would he be met with open arms and a hardy slap on the back? I think not. Better for the novice to be initiated in Boot Camp than in the trenches.

This is a revolution, Mr. Prior. A revolution of mind. It is not the typical revolution involving violence, nor does it involve the change of any government. It is a revolution that must first take place internally. Only then can the message be heard and take root externally.

I like Mark's four finger salute because it penetrates the overweaponized Homeland defenses in an almost Gandhian way. I guess what I'm saying here is something is better than nothing.