The Dee angle is indeed interesting and Dee's "familiar", if you will, Edward Kelly, was the man chosen to do his "scrying" for him. Scrying is an old, almost lost term these days, and a better description than the one you wrote above would be difficult to find to describe it:
Quote:He starved himself at times and was very driven toward active participation in his dreams. There are several time periods he tuned into, one was Roman, another was European America before Columbus (Norse in New England), another was England in the 17th or 18th century with an emphasis on a literary personality there and I suspect he also tuned into Poe, whom he adored. There's also some library outside of time inhabited by a strange race of cone-shaped creatures who are capable of time travel and collect knowledge from all over the universe, with some connexion to Western Australia in the distant past. He did exert his imagination on a daily basis.
(my bolding)
Jung's autobiography Memories, Dreams and Refections details numerous similar experiences - which is not particularly surprising, I think. Jung developed a technique he called "Active Imagination" (rather than "active participation") for these experiences and it is close to dreaming but with free conscious will retained (otherwise known as a deep meditative state - as I briefly outlined earlier in this thread), and it was a technique my old Jungian teacher recommended I also use because I already had a fairly extensive ability in such things. Starving, or at least not having an empty stomach prior to undertaking these activities is a requisite - but something must be taken immediately afterwards.
On these occasions one gets to meet an entirely different class of people -- or perhaps "beings" is a more accurate term? And sometimes you can get tangled up with an Archetype when you boldly step where no one has step-ped before (except someone probably has)... which is not something ever to be forgotten. :call:
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
David Guyatt Wrote:The Dee angle is indeed interesting and Dee's "familiar", if you will, Edward Kelly, was the man chosen to do his "scrying" for him. Scrying is an old, almost lost term these days, and a better description than the one you wrote above would be difficult to find to describe it:
Quote:He starved himself at times and was very driven toward active participation in his dreams. There are several time periods he tuned into, one was Roman, another was European America before Columbus (Norse in New England), another was England in the 17th or 18th century with an emphasis on a literary personality there and I suspect he also tuned into Poe, whom he adored. There's also some library outside of time inhabited by a strange race of cone-shaped creatures who are capable of time travel and collect knowledge from all over the universe, with some connexion to Western Australia in the distant past. He did exert his imagination on a daily basis.
(my bolding)
Jung's autobiography Memories, Dreams and Refections details numerous similar experiences - which is not particularly surprising, I think. Jung developed a technique he called "Active Imagination" (rather than "active participation") for these experiences and it is close to dreaming but with free conscious will retained (otherwise known as a deep meditative state - as I briefly outlined earlier in this thread), and it was a technique my old Jungian teacher recommended I also use because I already had a fairly extensive ability in such things. Starving, or at least not having an empty stomach prior to undertaking these activities is a requisite - but something must be taken immediately afterwards.
On these occasions one gets to meet an entirely different class of people -- or perhaps "beings" is a more accurate term? And sometimes you can get tangled up with an Archetype when you boldly step where no one has step-ped before (except someone probably has)... which is not something ever to be forgotten. :call:
If you consider Cthulhu as master of the Abyss, you can substitute the collective unconscious for Abyss with undifferentiated aspects of the archetypes, for example, the both good and evil gods or angels of the Yezidi pantheon, and Lovecraft is constantly seeking doorways or gates, access, to the treasure-trove of imagery in the collective unconscious. Some of his stories use the symbol of a silver key to unlock those gates to dreamland, and these particular stories tie in with his own explorations into his ancestry, he regresses to an ancestor in what he consistently refers to as Devonshire in England in the 17th century.
I was looking over some Lovecraft studies from the 1970s and realized I was mis-characterized him as a complete shut-in. He was making friends through his work in the Amateur Journalism associations and meeting young people, even going to amusement parks with groups of them. He also seems to have introduced the use of pseudonyms in those circles. One of his works is coauthored with Elizabeth Berkeley, a pseudonym, and he uses one of his own on that story as well, Theobald Lewis I believe. One of the authors in the amateur press whose stories and poems appear in the same issues as Lovecraft's work was named James Laurence Crowley, probably no relation. An older man named Arthur Goodenough also appears with Lovecraft and seems to have played the role of tutor to Lovecraft in some sense. They met in person as well. Lovecraft also travelled to Quebec and different parts of New England collecting lore and inspiration. The Colour out of Space was inspired by a story he received from a woman who specialized in New England heritage whom he visited on one of his trips. So it's not inconceivable he was in some way connected to one or several initiatory groups, either formally or informally.
It might also be significant that his stories became much better following his return from New York and the break-up of his marriage around 1925. One of his New York stories, He, involves magical time regressions and progressions in New York. He put his new-found inspiration down to a return to his native Providence, but New York seems to have broadened his cosmic view somehow, so perhaps there were teachers there who showed him new things.
Quote:If you consider Cthulhu as master of the Abyss, you can substitute the collective unconscious for Abyss with undifferentiated aspects of the archetypes, for example, the both good and evil gods or angels of the Yezidi pantheon, and Lovecraft is constantly seeking doorways or gates, access, to the treasure-trove of imagery in the collective unconscious. Some of his stories use the symbol of a silver key to unlock those gates to dreamland, and these particular stories tie in with his own explorations into his ancestry, he regresses to an ancestor in what he consistently refers to as Devonshire in England in the 17th century.
I think we are in broad agreement about the CU. I should really go upstairs and consult Jung's Collected Works for his precise definition and transcribe it here, but I am feeling too lazy I'm afraid (a tough day on the gold course is my excuse!), but the following extract seems pretty okay to me.
Quote:The collective unconscious
The theory of the collective unconscious is one of the distinctive features of Jung’s psychology. He took the view that the whole personality is present in potentia from birth and that personality is not solely a function of the environment, as was thought at the time when he was developing his ideas, but merely brings out what is already there. The role of the environment is to emphasise and develop aspects already within the individual.
Every infant is born with an intact blueprint for life, both physically and mentally, and while these ideas were very controversial at the time, there is much more agreement now that each animal species is uniquely equipped with a repertoire of behaviours adapted to the environment in which it has evolved. This repertoire is dependent on what ethologists call ‘innate releasing mechanisms’ which the animal inherits in its central nervous system and which become activated when appropriate stimuli are encountered in the environment. These ideas are very close indeed to the theory of archetypes developed by Jung.
He wrote:
‘the term archetype is not meant to denote an inherited idea, but rather an inherited mode of functioning, corresponding to the inborn way in which the chick emerges from the egg, the bird builds its nest, a certain kind of wasp stings the motor ganglion of the caterpillar, and eels find their way to the Bermudas. In other words, it is a “pattern of behaviour”. This aspect of the archetype, the purely biological one, is the proper concern of scientific psychology’. (CW18, para 1228).
The archetypes predispose us to approach life and to experience it in certain ways, according to patterns laid down in the psyche. There are archetypal figures, such as mother, father, child, archetypal events, such as birth, death, separation, and archetypal objects such as water, the sun, the moon, snakes, and so on. These images find expression in the psyche, in behaviour and in myths. It is only archetypal images that are capable of being known and coming to consciousness, the archetypes themselves are deeply unconscious and unknowable.
I have mentioned the biological, instinctual pole of the archetype, but Jung perceived the concept as a spectrum, there being an opposing, spiritual pole which also has an enormous impact on behaviour. Archetypes have a fascinating, numinous quality to them which makes them difficult to ignore, and attracts people to venerate or worship archetypal images.
Meanwhile mucho gracias for the .pdf. I'll settle in to read this when I return from my holiday-cum-French odyssey... Yum. Slurp. Belch!
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
What happens when the archetypes acting through the human personality so to speak encounter something entirely new?
In this respect Lovecraft's various unnameables, unutterables, ineffibles and indescribables prefigure some of the paradoxical encounters with ETs, something completely Outside the ken of human experience.
I am bumping this thread to remind us there is really great stuff to be found in the DPF "way back machine." I found Charlie Drago's comment #157 in the current pedophile thread to be most intriguing and I went sniffing around. Also I have been re-reading David Guyatt's various posts.
EDIT: From #157:
Quote:That, and the equivalent of consuming the wolf's heart to gain the wolf's strength and cunning.
You are, as they say, what you eat.
Material wealth and earthly power are term-limited. And so wealthy, powerful men and women look to trump mortality by all means necessary.
Some invest heavily in psychic research as they seek assurance that, while they can't take it with them, they nonetheless will be going somewhere.
Others take darker measures.
"We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I
"We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl
Charles Drago Wrote:Good bump, Lauren. And thanks for the kind words.
There is indeed gold in them thar DPF archives.
The more I continue to dig, question, speculate, verify, and finally adopt working hypotheses, the more I am led away from the notion that "it is all about power and wealth." Below this most obvious explanation for the deep political lies a much deeper motive -- the need to transcend our finite existence and be transformed into gods -- especially at the expense of any and all. That I think is the core of Levenda's Sinister Forces; at least that is my reading. This is The Unspeakable. Just interpreting the deep political through the lens of power and wealth is reductionist. It is especially appealing considering the (justified) hatred of religion. Nevertheless, it is still a reductionist trajectory and is therefore inadequate.
"We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I
"We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl
I miss Helen Reyes and our discussions on Lovecraft.
Helen felt that Lovecraft had no occult knowledge whereas I considered him to be versed in the subject. Neither of us could get to the bottom of the subject and let the matter drop.
I now see from The Necronomicon Files - The Truth Behind the Legend by Harms & Gonce that Lovecraft did, in fact, seek a great deal of occult knowledge from experts. In other words he was reasonably well versed in the subject.
Meanwhile, Danielle Trussoni who wrote the excellent novel Angelogy - all about the Nephilim - has now followed up with Angelopolis, which looks like a great read also (I have a copy saved for my future holiday reading).
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
David Guyatt Wrote:Meanwhile, Danielle Trussoni who wrote the excellent novel Angelogy - all about the Nephilim - has now followed up with Angelopolis, which looks like a great read also (I have a copy saved for my future holiday reading).
Is there any agreement yet on how many fit on the head of a pin?
I remembered you posted a most intriguing link to some Vatican department or order that had some thing to do with angels.
And sometimes you can get tangled up with an Archetype when you boldly step where no one has step-ped before (except someone probably has)... which is not something ever to be forgotten. :call:
