David Josephs Wrote:Not all the cops have a white shoulder "patch"... but the one that winds up leading the tramps does...
as does this one on the RR overpass.... I've tried to make a point about Wise and Bass and the tramps in that there is some seriopus confusion over who was in those photos of the tramps...
This man is very suspicious from my analysis of Wise/Bass and the two sets of tramps..., imo.
DJ
I believe no one has ever identified those 'police' as DPD. Both Proudy and White [Jack], as well as many others, felt the way they were dressed and their 'stand down' posture with the weapons and their 'collars' shows they were actors leading a few conspirators away. They were either lookouts, diversions or some such...not shooters. There is no record of their arrest. No names, no bookings.
The cops in the tramps photos were identified, albeit not conclusively as Wise and Bass... yet the attached shows how they are not the same cops in the Lansdale photo as on Houston...
While Wise claims in his fbi statement that he and Bass are the only two seen in these images.. why would Wise lie?
How do you come by your conclusion they were not shooters... that they were lookouts or some other such thing Peter? Based on what evidence?
Sure would be nice to have a reference, link or image you can offer to help us understand your conclusions.
There is quite a bit of documentation whereby a variety of cops are named... and dismissed as not possible (attached) and Chambers plays a role as his name appears on the three arrest reports...
Doyle, Abrahms and Gedney were indeed booked and spent 2 or 3 days in jail... according to their own statements whereas Wise tells us that Decker et al releases these other three not long after being brough to him.
The three in the photos were not those three men...... in fact, one of the dpd cops testified to those three not being the only "tramps" arrested that day...
the question that begs to be asked is WHY parade them from RR yard, thru DP as to make it so obvious in the first place...
THAT to me is the DP aspect of their involvement at that point
David Josephs Wrote:the question that begs to be asked is WHY parade them from RR yard, thru DP as to make it so obvious in the first place...
THAT to me is the DP aspect of their involvement at that point
To make it obvious.
"It" being a false lead designed to misdirect, or a hide-in-plain-sight gambit.
David Josephs Wrote:Not all the cops have a white shoulder "patch"... but the one that winds up leading the tramps does...
as does this one on the RR overpass.... I've tried to make a point about Wise and Bass and the tramps in that there is some seriopus confusion over who was in those photos of the tramps...
This man is very suspicious from my analysis of Wise/Bass and the two sets of tramps..., imo.
DJ
I believe no one has ever identified those 'police' as DPD. Both Proudy and White [Jack], as well as many others, felt the way they were dressed and their 'stand down' posture with the weapons and their 'collars' shows they were actors leading a few conspirators away. They were either lookouts, diversions or some such...not shooters. There is no record of their arrest. No names, no bookings.
The cops in the tramps photos were identified, albeit not conclusively as Wise and Bass... yet the attached shows how they are not the same cops in the Lansdale photo as on Houston...
While Wise claims in his fbi statement that he and Bass are the only two seen in these images.. why would Wise lie?
How do you come by your conclusion they were not shooters... that they were lookouts or some other such thing Peter? Based on what evidence?
Sure would be nice to have a reference, link or image you can offer to help us understand your conclusions.
There is quite a bit of documentation whereby a variety of cops are named... and dismissed as not possible (attached) and Chambers plays a role as his name appears on the three arrest reports...
Doyle, Abrahms and Gedney were indeed booked and spent 2 or 3 days in jail... according to their own statements whereas Wise tells us that Decker et al releases these other three not long after being brough to him.
The three in the photos were not those three men...... in fact, one of the dpd cops testified to those three not being the only "tramps" arrested that day...
the question that begs to be asked is WHY parade them from RR yard, thru DP as to make it so obvious in the first place...
THAT to me is the DP aspect of their involvement at that point
Cheers
DJ
As I remember [going on memory here, sorry, best I can do under current circumstances] the names and information of any of them allegedly spending any time in jail [i.e. booked] first became known only a few years ago. Before that they had simply vanished into thin air....which I think is what really happened. I don't think those two 'police' are DPD - or not the officers named and I certainly do NOT think the names of the 'three' are real names associated with those three men. They are passing Landsdale who is passing between the dangerous arrestees and a wall [fence] - not what anyone would do. The 'stand down' posture of the 'police' look at how they are NOT guarding their prisoners, not watching them, guns NOT on the ready - and the President was just murdered!....there wasn't a petty robbery or just three hobos found sleeping in a train!!!!! Asfor the path of the parade, I have no ideas.....but likely to hide in plain sight AND to enable the pass by Lansdale. As for why I don't think they are shooters - I have no proofs - but from my research about how such operations are carried out and the patterns I have discerned from Dallas, the shooters have to be removed completely, immediately. They were in safe houses, cars and planes within 15-30 minutes of the shooting.The others can hang out and slowly drift away - e.g. TUM and DSM, Radioman, the fake SS agents, the 'Tramps'...others. The Plaza was full to bursting with operatives, lookouts, people to confuse, doubles, lookie-loos there just to watch the hit they knew was coming. The other 2/3 near the Plaza were ordinary citizens. Not all the DPD were in on 'it'...surely; a select few were, and that's all that was needed - as only a handful of DPD gave a damn if JFK would be killed. They mostly hated him for their own yahoo reasons. R. White certainly was, IMO. One can name some others highly suspect of foreknowledge. The command not to ride near the Limo and not to protect - let the SS do all that; as well as the DPD complicity in Ruby's murder of LHO all point to one thing. Craig was the only real dissenting voice and I believe he was murdered for that.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Sadly, in these photos, it appears that the so called "tramps" clothing has a better fit than some of those "police uniforms"!
And, certainly a possibility exists that the "3 tramps" photographed are in addition to other train yard "occupants" that may have been apprehended and "questioned" on 11/22/'63. I am curious about the PO identities and employment records of the photographed POs with the so called "tramps". FWIW, I only use the word "tramps" for identity purposes only, and the same goes for POs (police officers).
Peter Lemkin Wrote:The 'stand down' posture of the 'police' look at how they are NOT guarding their prisoners, not watching them, guns NOT on the ready - and the President was just murdered!....there wasn't a petty robbery or just three hobos found sleeping in a train!!!!!
I have no idea about Dallas police protocols but just the fact they had rifles at all, regardless of how they are carrying them under these extraordinary circumstances seems very odd to me. I have never seen police armed with rifles unless it is a special squad in a sniper/seige situation. Most street police have hand guns of some kind, if they are armed at all, in my observation. These guys look like street police to me.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Peter Lemkin Wrote:The 'stand down' posture of the 'police' look at how they are NOT guarding their prisoners, not watching them, guns NOT on the ready - and the President was just murdered!....there wasn't a petty robbery or just three hobos found sleeping in a train!!!!!
I have no idea about Dallas police protocols but just the fact they had rifles at all, regardless of how they are carrying them under these extraordinary circumstances seems very odd to me. I have never seen police armed with rifles unless it is a special squad in a sniper/seige situation. Most street police have hand guns of some kind, if they are armed at all, in my observation. These guys look like street police to me.
Fair enough... any thoughts as to why Wise lies about who the police in those four photos are? and who the OTHER guy leading the way is in the Lansdale photo?
Also, please notice the day and time Beck released them... 11/26 at 9:25. they were arrested 11/22 and claimed to have spent 3 days in jail of a 6 day sentence....
Sounds about right.
Doyle, Abrahms, Gedney are the Ray and Mary LaFontaine Oswald Talked (1996) trio arrested and hosted at Motel Six
The classic tramps are not they. Variously speculated to be the Webermann-Canfield Sturgis, Hunt & Carswell, or the Lois Gibson Harrelson, Ice Box Killer and Holt.
They appeared in the photos of Jack Beers (Dallas Morning News), George Smith (Fort Worth Star Telegram), William Allen (Dallas Times Herald).
They were escorted by "police" with a unique emblem:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4417[/ATTACH]
Holt's story is he flew in with Secret Service identification for certain operatives, hid in a boxcar with Harrelson and the Ice Box Killer.
The question of identity is problematic. The matter of two sets of three each "tramps" is likely, though it suits the LaFontaines to insist theirs is the exclusive set.
Prouty and Krulak's identification of Lansdale is of interest, particularly since Prouty says the tramps are actors.
... and a man was seen wandering down the RR tracks with a rifle.... he didn't have it when the boys in blue got there...
and he had nothing to do with anything. Like the 6'6" rifle toting giant... and Braden in Dal Tex... and every interested bystanders along Houston and Elm
CIA to Admit Hunt Involvement in JFK Slaying, Victor Marchetti, The Spotlight, August 14, 1978.
1966 memo in which Angleton alerts Helms Hunt has no alibi for November 22, 1963.
Marchetti never saw a copy. Joseph Trento told Lane he had. William Corson said under oath he had.
Lane weaves this into a lightning bolt, Plausible Denial.
Hunt shuffling off the mortal coil, his deathbed deflection of blame from himself (just a benchwarmer) and upon LBJ, universal boogie man.
In his Give Us This Day he dramatizes the passion. Of course the Brigade and its support team felt betrayed. That was the point of the Bay of Pigs thing.
November 1961 Dulles calls in Hunt to write Craft of Intelligence published 1963. ('61 when Mongoose had Helms sending Harvey to Maheu and Rosselli to get Castro.)
Plausible denial indeed.
Of course Hunt was in Dallas. And Phillips. Per DiEugenio's narrative of Jim Garrison's investigation, Sergio Arcacha Smith was so involved he had sewer maps when his apartment was searched.
That whole Bay of Pigs thing.
Helms ousted Nixon by sabotaging Watergate through his placement of McCord and Hunt et al on the team.
Veciana saw Oswald with Phillips in Dallas late summer '63. Angleton suppressed all of Oswald's files, having manipulated the flash.
But a mansion has many rooms and James was in the privy.
To my knowledge the WC never even tried to bother with the three 'tramps'....not wanting to 'open that door'. Whoever the policeman [ha!] in the rear is, his pants don't fit and it looks like he is carrying a rifle for the first time - some hire-a-cop [or actor]. Does anyone remember about how long after the shooting this parade of the guilty took place? Someone did an analysis of the shadows for the exact time - I think Tom Wilson. Certainly, anyone in the area [except Lansdale and other conspirators] watching this parade would have had their attention totally fixed on it...so it may have been of dual purpose. Certainly, it was to extricate the 'tramps' from the Plaza, after they were found by someone not 'in' on the plot. The very visible and central parade route may have been to misdirect non-conspirator's attention from something / someone else being removed from the target zone. As Prouty pointed out [others as well], their clothes are not 'trampy', their shoes well heeled and they are not dirty, are shaven and have had recent haircuts. For decades the DPD did not admit [or said it could not find] the arrest reports on the three. I'm even inclined to believe they created them at a much later date [decades after the fact]. I love the very generic names. As Prouty said, 'actors'.....in the passion play of Dallas.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Whoever the policeman [ha!] in the rear is, his pants don't fit and it looks like he is carrying a rifle for the first time - some hire-a-cop [or actor]. Does anyone remember about how long after the shooting this parade of the guilty took place? Someone did an analysis of the shadows for the exact time - I think Tom Wilson. Certainly, anyone in the area [except Lansdale and other conspirators] watching this parade would have had their attention totally fixed on it...so it may have been of dual purpose. Certainly, it was to extricate the 'tramps' from the Plaza, after they were found by someone not 'in' on the plot. The very visible and central parade route may have been to misdirect non-conspirator's attention from something / someone else being removed from the target zone. As Prouty pointed out [others as well], their clothes are not 'trampy', their shoes well heeled and they are not dirty, are shaven and have had recent haircuts. For decades the DPD did not admit [or said it could not find] the arrest reports on the three. I'm even inclined to believe they created them at a much later date [decades after the fact]. I love the very generic names. As Prouty said, 'actors'.....in the passion play of Dallas.