I imagine these issues have been discussed ad nauseam, so please bear with me 1) Who was the man seen walking west on 10th a couple of blocks north of Ruby's apt. around 1M that witnesses mistook for Oswald, where was he headed, and why did he shoot Tippet? 2) Greer: did he come to a virtual stop because he was in on the plot; did he just screw up in his hangover confused haze and hit the brakes instead of the gas; or was he just following orders? If he hits the gas the President is most likely not mortally wounded. To what degree was the SS penetrated by the conspirators? Be interested to hear people's thoughts and be directed to some good source material.
Gordon Gray Wrote:I imagine these issues have been discussed ad nauseam, so please bear with me 1) Who was the man seen walking west on 10th a couple of blocks north of Ruby's apt. around 1M that witnesses mistook for Oswald, where was he headed, and why did he shoot Tippet? 2) Greer: did he come to a virtual stop because he was in on the plot; did he just screw up in his hangover confused haze and hit the brakes instead of the gas; or was he just following orders? If he hits the gas the President is most likely not mortally wounded. To what degree was the SS penetrated by the conspirators? Be interested to hear people's thoughts and be directed to some good source material.
1)
Tippit was one of the few people who could put Ruby and Oswald together AND was involved, or would be involved in some way... If the Mafia was involved in this portion of the game, one would think that setting Tippit up and in turn Oswald as a cop-killer AND POTUS assassin... the DPD might just shoot first, ask question later. THE Oswald entered the theater around 1pm... Tippit's killer leads everyone to the same theater... was the revolver pointed at Oswald or MacDonald at the time it went SNAP? Oswald the cop killer allows an easier transition into Phase 2... the deranged Nut.
From ALL the evidence available it it virtually impossible to conclude that Oswald, Ruby's Oswald, was the man who killed Tippit.
The timing, the actual witness statements and add-ons, the time of death, the uncalled witnesses, the jacket... etc.
Not a soul sees Oswald make the trip from his house, anywhere.. (I've theorized that the honking police car actually took Oswald to the theater while "someone" drops the killer off near Neely and Beckley (as opposed to Neches and Beckley which Whaley says over and over and is NOT a street corner)
2)
Not really sure how this will of can ever be answered to anyone's satisfaction... (I remember reading a story that Greer was selected as the driver since he had a history of BRAKING in emergencies... I cannot find the source so take it with a grain of salt... but that memory shines bright...) While he testifies to believing in three shots from behind... one possibility is that he KNEW and SAW a shot from the front and stopped approaching the danger as he realized it... but it is not so much the STOP as much as the severe slowing of the limo after the turn onto Elm... For Hill to have made that run in the time and frames offered requires the limo and SS car to be moving at less than 3mph... (and yes it is my opinion that Nix and Muchmore are not the original in-camera images captured and that for the assassiantion sequence at least, Zap was filming in slo motion - 48fps which was cut down to an 18.3fps smooth moving vehicle)
The following agents believed that there was a conspiracy involved in
JFK's death (I use past tense only because most of them are now
deceased):
1)Samuel A. Kinney- Sam told me this three times (he also stated that he
found the notion of conspiracy "plausible" to the HSCA, based offf the
recently-released contact reports available thru the ARRB/ Archives). He
thought Oswald was the lone shooter, although he stated emphatically
that there were no missed shots (!)- he spoke to Connally about this and
THE GOVERNOR AGREED WITH SAM! Sam also told me that the "right rear" of
JFK's head was missing[he later recovered THE piece of the president's
head on the C-130], and that his windshield (of the follow-up car) and
left arm were splattered with blood and brain matter. Finally, whether
hyperbole or not, Sam said "He had no brains left". Sam passed away
7/21/97 while vacationing in Iowa. His wife Hazel told me she regretted
that Sam is now forever unable to tell more...;
2) Roy H. Kellerman- According to his widow June, Roy "accepted that
there was a conspiracy"- this was based on June overhearing Roy's
telephone conversation with someone from the HSCA in approx. 1977 or
1978. As we all know, Roy stated to the WC that "there has to be more
than three shots, gentleman" and that a "flurry of shells" came into the
car. Like Bill Greer, Roy is often added to the list of those witnesses
who reported that the right rear of JFK's head was blasted. The above
information was reported to author Anthony Summers for the Dec. 1994
VANITY FARE, p. 88 [uncredited]; you'll also find it in my book.
Finally, Kellerman's daughter told Harold Weisberg in the 1970's that "I
hope the day will come when these men [Kellerman and Greer*]will be able
to say what they've told their families";
3) Abraham W. Bolden, Sr,- Abe is a firm believer in a conspiracy AND in
Secret Service negligence. Also, Abe is adamant that there was a plot to
kill JFK in Chicago in early November, 1963. I spoke to Bolden twice and
corresponded at length with him between 1993 and the present. bolden is
currently working on his own book with his wife;
4) Maurice G. Martineau- Abe's boss in the Chicago office, Martineau was
equally adamant to me that a conspiracy took the life of President
Kennedy. He aso told me he finds the work of the HSCA much more valid
than that of the WC. However, when it comes to info. on the Chicago
plot, Martineau is afraid to give me details to this day...;
5) John Norris- a member of the uniformed division of the Secret
Service, Norris is a fervent believer in a conspiracy, although one gets
the impression this is more based on his beliefs than actual knowledge,
but I could be mistaken. Still, his views and beliefs are important for
obvious reasons;
6) *Bill Greer- despite many suspicions I have about Greer's conduct on
11/22-11/23/63, he is a "default" addition to this list. In addition to
Kellerman's daughter's comments mentioned above, he is also among those
witnesses who, at least indirectly, gave testimony that the right rear
of JFK's head was missing. Also, to the HSCA, he had much misgivings
about the Single Bullet Theory. Still, this could just be guilty
conscience- he expressed much guilt to Jackie Kennedy concerning his
awful performance on Elm Street (which he would later deny to the FBI
and the WC; even Greer's son Richard was adamant to me that his father
had absolutely no survivor's guilt, despite these documented, very early
guilt feelings. Even Dave Poers and Ken O'donnell document Greer's early
remorse ["Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye'; see also Powers interview by
Charles Kuralt, 11/22/88 on video];
Also, Paul E. Landis, Jr., an agent in the follow-up car who, like agent
Hill, was assigned to Jackie, stated twice that shots came from the
front [18H755; 18H759];
In addition, agent Thomas "Lem" Johns, who rode in the V.P. follow-up
car, told the HSCA that "the first two [shots] sounded like they were on
the side of me towards the grassy knoll" [RIF 180-10074-10079];
Finally, SAIC of the Dallas office Forrest V. Sorrels, riding in the
lead car, believed the shots came from the front [Mark Lane's "Rush to
Judgement" film- interview with Orville Nix, a good friend of Sorrels'
who worked in the Dallas office as a maintenance worker]. I spoke very
briefly to Sorrels on two occasions in 1992, a year before he died- he
would not clarify anything...
Vince Palamara
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
IMO, the slowing of the limo is very likely the result of a reaction by Mr Greer to the "Dark Compected Man" stepping into the street with a "hold it" fist in the air, just as "The Umbrella Man" was pumping the open umbrella up and down. Added to to the hard limo turn from Houston to Elm, the speed was already reduced and this occurred just as the limo should have been increasing speed.
As for the shooter of JD Tippet, I would think a description similar to the person known as Lee Harvey Oswald would somewhat match a number of individuals, especially considering the event being witnessed.
LR Trotter Wrote:IMO, the slowing of the limo is very likely the result of a reaction by Mr Greer to the "Dark Compected Man" stepping into the street with a "hold it" fist in the air, just as "The Umbrella Man" was pumping the open umbrella up and down. Added to to the hard limo turn from Houston to Elm, the speed was already reduced and this occurred just as the limo should have been increasing speed.
As for the shooter of JD Tippet, I would think a description similar to the person known as Lee Harvey Oswald would somewhat match a number of individuals, especially considering the event being witnessed.
I agree that the behaviors and lack of ID of these two are strange. But I've never seen a "fist" only an open hand waving... can you post any image of a fist... or testimony describing this man as such?
What does it for me about Tippit and Oswald is what Benavidas adds - on his own - to his testimony about the back of the killer's head. and the fact he wouldn't, couldn't identify the killer as Oswald...
and what happens to his brother. Those "citizens" that came into contact with the Mafia component of the assassination SEEM to me as the ones that were first to be attacked, warned and killed.
DJ
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4499[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4500[/ATTACH]
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
LR Trotter Wrote:IMO, the slowing of the limo is very likely the result of a reaction by Mr Greer to the "Dark Compected Man" stepping into the street with a "hold it" fist in the air, just as "The Umbrella Man" was pumping the open umbrella up and down. Added to to the hard limo turn from Houston to Elm, the speed was already reduced and this occurred just as the limo should have been increasing speed.
As for the shooter of JD Tippet, I would think a description similar to the person known as Lee Harvey Oswald would somewhat match a number of individuals, especially considering the event being witnessed.
A benign explanation of Greer's behavior would be that sensing shots from the front and instinctively not wanting to drive into a hail of bullets, he hesitated, turned to look at the President, taking his foot off the gas inadvertently, saw Hill coming toward the limo, turned braked, looked back to see if Hill had made it, then seeing the President shot in the head he accelerated. Just what Kellerman was doing all this time is another story. The more sinister explanation is that Greer at least, was in on it and was reacting to the DSM's signal. But was Kellerman in on it too? Were any of the rest of the detail? The cover story seems to be that the White House wanted a lower profile in Dallas and for the President to appear open and available to the people, so the SS, bowing to political pressure pulled back JFK's protection. The agents themselves seem to believe that the President himself never interfered with their work .and they all said he was a nice man. Of course Bolden says they were a bunch of red neck racist drunks, who hated Kennedy and were lax in their jobs. I tend to believe Bolden. As for the Tippet shooting; I have a hard time believing that the plotters would go the extent of shooting a policeman in order to frame Oswald as a cop killer, in the hopes the police would shoot him. It seems much too circuitous and chancy. It was imperative that they eliminate Oswald as quickly as possible IMO, and they would have taken more direct means. I have always thought that the man walking west on 10th was the same guy who got into the Rambler. He was driven to Ruby's and told to go towards Beckley and try and intercept Oswald, who was to have been eliminated in the TSBD, but managed to get away. Oswald was headed towards the Texas Theatre to meet a contact. He must have been driven there in order to be seen there by the concessions guy at around 1:10 PM. Tippet's behavior was awfully strange that day. It could be that Tippet was also looking to pick up Qswald, take him some place where he could be done away with, and mistook the Rambler man for him. Or not. Tippet could have just been stopping him because he matched the description on the BOLO. Rambler man had to shoot him to avoid being taken, and left Oswald's wallet as further incriminating evidence. He was most likely the guy who d been leaving the trail of evidence the months prior. He then went to the Texas Theatre to shoot Oswald, IMO.
Upon arriving at the Bethesda Hospital, Kellerman bolts from the car leaving Greer, Jackie, Bobby and the Casket in the Navy ambulance at the front of the hospital... he claims not to know how to get to the morgue.
This occurs just at 6:55pm -
At 7:17 according to Siebert, O'Neill, and Greer MEET KELLERMAN AT THE MORGUE'S ENTRANCE, these four men unload the BRONZE casket from the Navy ambulance with a transport on wheels
and leave it in the morgue's anteroom... The FBI agents DO NOT see the body at this time...
At 8pm the Joint Casket Bearer Team OFFICIALLY takes this SAME casket back into the Morgue... Humes claims the autopsy begins at 8:15....
Dennis David and an xray tech actually see the navy ambulance out front after unloading a shipping casket and WHILE processing JFK's xrays
It is thought that KELLERMAN orchestrated the return of JFK to the LARGE casket for the official "entry" and was orchestrating most of the SS activities...
(was it not Kellerman who has the argument with Rose at Parkland?)
Mr. KELLERMAN. This I can't truly answer. However, I should say that, as for the
casket being brought into the hospital, another gentleman came into this little
doctor's room, his name I don't recall, but he represented himself to be from
the Health Department or commission, some form. He said to me, he said, "There
has been a homicide here, you won't be able to remove the body. We will have to
take it down there to the mortuary and have an autopsy." I said, "No, we are
not." And he said, "We have a law here whereby you have to comply with
it."
With that Dr. Burkley walked in, and I said Doctor, this man is from
some health unit in town. He tells me we can't remove this body." The Doctor
became a little enraged; he said, "We are removing it." He said, "This is the
President of the United States and there should be some consideration in an
event like this." And I told this gentleman, I said, "You are going to have to
come up with something a little stronger than you to give me the law that this
body can't be removed."
So, he frantically called everybody he could think of
and he hasn't got an answer; nobody is home. Shortly he leaves this little room
and it seems like a few minutes he is back and he has another gentleman with
him, and he said, "This is"--the name escapes me he said, "He is a judge here in
Dallas," and he said, "He will tell you whether you can remove this body or
not." I said, "It doesn't make any difference. We are going to move it," and I
said, "Judge, do you know who I am?"
And he said, "Yes," and I said, "There
must be something in your thinking here that we don't have to go through this
agony; the family doesn't have to go through this. We will take care of the
matter when we get back to Washington." The poor man looked at me and he said,
"I know who you are," and he said, "I can't help you out." I said. "All right,
sir." But then I happened to look to the right and I can see the casket coming
on rollers, and I just left the room and let it out through the emergency
entrance and we got to the ambulance and put it in, shut the door after Mrs.
Kennedy and General McHugh and Clinton Hill in the rear part of this
ambulance.
I am looking around for Mr. Greer and I don't spot him directly
because I want to get out of here in a hurry, and I recognize Agent Berger and I
said, "Berger, you get in the front seat and drive and, Mr. Stout, you get in
the middle and I will get on this side," and as we are leaving--Mr. Lawson, I
should say, was in a police car that led us away from Parkland Memorial
Hospital. As we are leaving a gentleman taps on the driver's window and they
roll it down and he says, "I will meet you at the mortuary." "Yes, sir." We went
to the airport, gentlemen.
With regard to Tippit... you may of course speculate away... at some point though you might want to look at the evidence.. the EVIDENCE related to Tippit is anything BUT conclusive that Oswald, or his police .38 special were even involved.
[TABLE="width: 458"]
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[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]221 (Ptm. H.W. Summers)
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 341, bgcolor: #FFCC99"]Might can give you some additional information. I got an eye-ball witness to the get-away man. That suspect in this shooting is a white male, twenty-seven, five feet eleven, a hundred sixty-five, black wavy hair, fair complected, wearing a light grey Eisenhower-type jacket, dark trousers and a white shirt, and (. . . ?). Last seen running on the north side of the street from Patton, on Jefferson, on East Jefferson. And he was apparently armed with a 32 dark-finish automatic pistol which he had in his right hand.
[/TD]
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[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 458"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl69, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1:34
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill)
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 341, bgcolor: #FFCC99"]The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic 38, rather than a pistol.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl69, width: 80, bgcolor: transparent"]1:34
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 189, bgcolor: transparent"]Dispatcher
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 341, bgcolor: transparent"]10-4.
[/TD]
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[/TABLE]
The murder occurs at 1:06, Bowley sees a dead Tippit at 1:10. Oswald was in his room at 1-1:03pm and next seen at the Theater by Burroughs before 1:15.
Markham can't be any more of a leadable witness...
Mr. BALL. Did a police officer say anything to you before you went in there, to tell you--
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. That he thought "We had the right man," or something of that sort? Anything like that?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. No statement like that?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did anybody tell you that the man you were looking for would be in a certain position in the lineup, or anything like that?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now when you went into the room you looked these people over, these four men?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did you recognize anyone in the lineup?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. You did not? Did you see anybody--I have asked you that question before did you recognize anybody from their face? Mrs. MARKHAM. From their face, no.
Mr. BALL. Did you identify anybody in these four people? Mrs. MARKHAM. I didn't know nobody.
Mr. BALL. I know you didn't know anybody, but did anybody in that lineup look like anybody you had seen before? Mrs. MARKHAM. No. I had never seen none of them, none of these men.
Mr. BALL. No one of the four? Mrs. MARKHAM. No one of them.
Mr. BALL. No one of all four? Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Was there a number two man in there? Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two is the one I picked.
Mr. BALL. Well, I thought you just told me that you hadn't-- Mrs. MARKHAM. I thought you wanted me to describe their clothing
Mr. BALL. And you were walking toward Jefferson?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Tenth Street runs the same direction as Jefferson, doesn't it?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. It runs in a generally east and west direction?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And Patton runs north and south?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir; up and down this way.
Mr. BALL. So you were walking south toward Jefferson?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. You think it was a little after 1?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes after 1.
Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.
Mr. BALL. So it was before 1:15?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it was.
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
Of the navy personnel at the Bethesda morgue, who actually saw the body removed from the shipping casket and then removed from the body bag and placed on the examining table? Also where were the FBI agents when the body was placed back into the ceremonial coffin and loaded back into the hearse for the official entry with the color guard. Were they on a coffee break during that interval between 7:15 and 8:00 PM? Or did they see the whole thing and lie about it as well?
Gordon Gray Wrote:Of the navy personnel at the Bethesda morgue, who actually saw the body removed from the shipping casket and then removed from the body bag and placed on the examining table? Also where were the FBI agents when the body was placed back into the ceremonial coffin and loaded back into the hearse for the official entry with the color guard. Were they on a coffee break during that interval between 7:15 and 8:00 PM? Or did they see the whole thing and lie about it as well?
I'd suggest you google "Doug Horne IARRB part IV" or his blog... AND get a copy of BEST EVIDENCE.
I was just this morning reading thru Horne's book - Part IV covers Bethesda and the Zapruder film... a MUST BUY imo if you are at all interested in those subjects.
Google is your friend Gordon... a few taps of the keyboard and the info you seek is easily found...
Attached are two reports... one of the original entry of the shiopping casket at 6:35
the second the OFFICIAL entry of the casket at 8pm...
Other than the men inside the morgue, between these two times, only Greer, Kellerman and the 2 FBI agents are in and around the morgue... and as we finally learn, the FBI agents were CYA during the time Humes and Boswell drastically altered the wounds on JFK.
http://www.manuscriptservice.com/JWS-FXO/
Law: So, that's how long you were in the cooler room or the anteroom?
Sibert: Maybe out in the hall. Law: Out in the hall?
Sibert: Yes, we were excluded from where they were working. We had no idea what was going onX-rays or nothin'.
Conway: Were they in the anteroom when they unwrapped him, or when they brought him into the main
Sibert: I couldn't say for sure.
…
Law: …[Y]ou don't remember whether they took the body out at that point
Sibert: I would think, I don't know, this is just reasoning, but they had corpsmen that were carrying, you know, lifting him out of the casket onto the autopsy table and I can'tbecause I was talking with O'Neill. When I saw what we were up against there, I said, "We've got to get the names of everybody in this autopsy room…"
CONCLUSION Why did SAs
Sibert and O'Neill produce a narrative to convey the impression that they were
absent from the morgue for only 15 minutes? We suggest that their objective was
to reassure their superiors thatfor reasons beyond their controlthe body was
out of their sight for just 15 minutes after it had been removed from the Dallas
casket and was on the autopsy table. Thus, they would be excused for a minor
infraction in carrying out their responsibility to maintain an unbroken
chain-of-custody of the president's body. They needed to hide the fact that they
had lost contact with it for about 45 minutes, 7:17 to after 8:00 PM.
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
GG Who was the man seen walking west on 10th a couple of blocks north of Ruby's apt. around 1M that witnesses mistook for Oswald, where was he headed, and why did he shoot Tippet?
I don't know who you are talking about here. Can you give a reference to us?
And from where do you get that this person, whoever he was, shot Tippit?
Most of the evidence I think indicates more than one person was involved in that shooting.
As per the so called Boyajian report, which David apparently endorses, Horne greatly oversold this nebulous report. It does not say what he says it does. There are not many good things in Livingstone's Kaleidoscope,his book length critique of Horne's inflated and overblown series, but one thing it does, it exposes Horne's overselling of this so called report.
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:GG Who was the man seen walking west on 10th a couple of blocks north of Ruby's apt. around 1M that witnesses mistook for Oswald, where was he headed, and why did he shoot Tippet?
I don't know who you are talking about here. Can you give a reference to us?
And from where do you get that this person, whoever he was, shot Tippit?
Most of the evidence I think indicates more than one person was involved in that shooting.
As per the so called Boyajian report, which David apparently endorses, Horne greatly oversold this nebulous report. It does not say what he says it does. There are not many good things in Livingstone's Kaleidoscope,his book length critique of Horne's inflated and overblown series, but one thing it does, it exposes Horne's overselling of this so called report.
He is asking who shot Tippit Jim.... we both know it was not Oswald...
& Yes Jim... I endorse Boyijean with corroboration from a number of other items of evidence... that report does not exist on an island... nor does it explain the testimony of Humes, Kellerman, Greer, Sibert or O'Neill which place the process WELL BEFORE the MDW does its thing at 8pm...
What is it that you think the following says about the time the casket was taken in by this man's team?
I boggles the mind that respected researchers and authors cast doubt on the work of Doug Horne in these areas. The recap below seems to me as simple and direct evidence that they were working on JFK while the Casket lay empty in the ambulance.... which, in turn is as ominous and downright frightening as it comes... No Deep Politics involved...
Just destruction of evidence in the most brutal and disgusting manner possible... and why all of us here KNOW the wheels of a cover-up where in full motion.
Do you know of any evidence that ANYONE at Parkland says ANYTHING about a bullet hole high on the right side of his forehead? I've looked and can't find any.
NONE of the drawings on an anatomical model shows a wound to the top right of the forehead...
Boswell's Autopsy Descriptive Sheet - how can this be reconciled with F6/7 and the Groden image showing an obvious trauma to that area of the head....?
So if there was nothing there... yet images show there was... how did it get there and why let these images see the light of day?
DJ
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4506[/ATTACH]
6:35
From Boyijean: "3. At approximately 1835 (6:35pm) the casket was received at the morgue entrance and taken inside"
Dennis David, Chief of the Day for the Medical School (also part of the NNMC) on the evening of the autopsy, told the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB) in 1997 that he supervised the removal of a gray shipping casket from a black hearse at about 6:45 [4]. A group of sailors under his command carried the shipping casket into the anteroom of the morgue. After this event, David witnessed the arrival of the navy ambulance -- carrying the ornamental casket and Mrs. Kennedy -- at the front of the NNMC. He saw Mrs. Kennedy exit the ambulance and enter the lobby.
Edward Reed a technician at Bethesda Naval Hospital, took a number of
x-rays of the president's body during the autopsy. In his 1997 deposition to the
ARRB, he stated that he reported to the morgue after being paged over the PA
system [5, p. 20]. In 1978, he told Mark Flanagan of the House Select Committee
on Assassinations (HSCA) [6] that he arrived at the morgue at around 6:30 PM,
where, according to his ARRB testimony, he found that the casket containing the
president's body had already been delivered and was being guarded by five or six
marine corpsmen
7:17-7:30pm
Mr. SPECTER - What time did the autopsy start approximately?
Commander HUMES - The president's body was received at 25 minutes before 8, and the autopsy began at approximately 8 p.m. on that evening. You must include the fact that certain X-rays and other examinations were made before the actual beginning of the routine type autopsy examination.
FBI Agent O'Neill told the ARRB that, upon his (and Agent Sibert's) arrival
at the front entrance of the hospital (at approximately 6:55 PM [17]), he
observed Mrs. Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy and probably Dr. Burkley exit the gray navy
ambulance, which contained the ornamental bronze casket, and enter the hospital
along with Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman. After some time, during which the
navy ambulance had not moved, he and Sibert approached Larry O'Brien
(president's assistant) and asked about the delay. O'Brien said that SSA William
Greer, who had driven the ambulance from Andrews AFB to Bethesda, was not sure
how to find the morgue. Since O'Neill and Sibert were familiar with the Bethesda
Hospital grounds, they drove to the morgue entrance at the rear of the hospital,
with SSA Greer following. Upon arriving at the loading dock outside the morgue, O'Neill noted SSA
Kellerman coming out of a door to a corridor leading into the autopsy room, at
which point he (O'Neill) introduced himself to Kellerman. Clearly, Kellerman had
found his way from the front entrance of the hospital to the morgue complex.
8pm
Samuel Bird was an infantry lieutenant in charge of a nine-man team (initially, two were added later) composed of representatives of the five armed services -- army, navy, air force, marines and coast guard -- called the "joint-service casket-bearer team" (generally referred to as the "honor guard"). In a report dated December 10, 1963, Lt. Bird described his duties, from 11/22/63 until 11/25/63 when the president's body was interred at Arlington Cemetery [18].
In the early evening of the day of the assassination, the honor guard off-loaded the ornamental bronze casket from Air Force One onto a gray navy ambulance. Mrs. Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy, along with Secret Service Agents Kellerman, Greer and Landis rode in the ambulance with the casket from Andrews AFB to the Bethesda Hospital entrance. Bird's report states that the honor guard carried the ornamental bronze casket into the Bethesda morgue at 8:00 PM [18].
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
M that witnesses mistook for Oswald, where was he headed, and why did he shoot Tippet? 2) Greer: did he come to a virtual stop because he was in on the plot; did he just screw up in his hangover confused haze and hit the brakes instead of the gas; or was he just following orders? If he hits the gas the President is most likely not mortally wounded. To what degree was the SS penetrated by the conspirators? Be interested to hear people's thoughts and be directed to some good source material.
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