Marty Hay's Blog!

[Dawn Meredith]

I think Martin is all wet and dead wrong about Pitzer. Martin Hay takes the denier position on Commander Pitzer's CIA assassination.


When confronted to answer what exactly Pitzer was doing that evening at Bethesda Martin refuses to answer it. Obviously Pitzer was doing his job description that evening and filming the autopsy. I think the evidence makes it very obvious that in their rush to do the covert autopsy ala Horne CIA forgot Pitzer had installed remote filming equipment in the autopsy room. Or, it is even possible that the reason Pitzer was not on the roles of those in attendance at the 8pm autopsy is because he was at the 6:30 autopsy filming it. Pitzer had no idea he was filming a covert, wound-altering autopsy and probably thought he was just filming the regular autopsy. This has to be so because Dennis David said Pitzer showed him isolated slides of a wound to the front right of the head. That wound could only have existed unaltered at the covert pre-autopsy. I can't understand Martin's fervor for attacking this obvious proof.

Pitzer is interesting Al in all truth I don't know where I stand. However, he is only a small part of what Marty is getting at here. The clearly bizarre thing is how Fetzer and Lifton were once at each others throats. However, they are now united. I think Lifton has got some okay little odds and ends out there. Fetzer, somewhat less so. Yet, how could anyone in their right mind team up with Fetzer?

Fetzer and Lifton are now UNIFIED???? Wow. That explains some things. Thanks for that Seamus.

I know where I stand on Pitzer: MURDERED.

Dawn

[Seamus Coogan]

Like I said, Mr Hay refuses to apply his own standard to what exactly Pitzer was doing that night if he wasn't filming the autopsy?


Dennis David is not lying. At some point you must confront the dilemma that you are indirectly calling Mr David a liar and account for it. With all respect, I feel your last answer does not do that in a way that meets the serious credible demands of the evidence. This is not an insignificant issue.

PROVE he was there, Albert.

I'm waiting with bated breath.

It was pretty much Marty that came up with that one. He was as surprised as I was. Right so I have Dawn down as Pitzer was whacked! Lol I think Albert is going to need some help. Interesting to see where this will go. I am honestly very neutral on the subject... however, Marty's article as you guessed Dawn is more than that!

[Martin Hay]

Fetzer and Lifton are now UNIFIED???? Wow. That explains some things. Thanks for that Seamus.

I know where I stand on Pitzer: MURDERED.

Dawn

Dawn,

If you wanna go up against Cyril Wecht and Herbert L. MacDonell - two more qualified and independent-minded experts would be extremely hard to find - then be my guest.

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/WBP-Resolution/

In light of the article above, if you can present any evidence to support the notion that Pitzer was murdered, I'm all ears.

[Dawn Meredith]

Fetzer and Lifton are now UNIFIED???? Wow. That explains some things. Thanks for that Seamus.

I know where I stand on Pitzer: MURDERED.

Dawn

Dawn,

If you wanna go up against Cyril Wecht and Herbert L. MacDonell - two more qualified and independent-minded experts would be extremely hard to find - then be my guest.

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/WBP-Resolution/

In light of the article above, if you can present any evidence to support the notion that Pitzer was murdered, I'm all ears.

I thoroughly researched this many many years back. No clue where it is now. It was back when Alan E. was posting at EF.
I'm not getting into a pissing contest here with anyone. There has already been enough of that, on a totally different matter. Not blowing you off Marty, just road weary.
We all have the right to come to our individual conclusions.
DAwn

[Dawn Meredith]

Fetzer and Lifton are now UNIFIED???? Wow. That explains some things. Thanks for that Seamus.

I know where I stand on Pitzer: MURDERED.

Dawn

Dawn,

If you wanna go up against Cyril Wecht and Herbert L. MacDonell - two more qualified and independent-minded experts would be extremely hard to find - then be my guest.

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/WBP-Resolution/

In light of the article above, if you can present any evidence to support the notion that Pitzer was murdered, I'm all ears.

I thoroughly researched this many many years back. No clue where it is now. It was back when Alan E. was posting at EF.
I'm not getting into a pissing contest here with anyone. There has already been enough of that, on a totally different matter. Not blowing you off Marty, just road weary.
We all have the right to come to our individual conclusions.
Dawn

I posted too soon, this article IS by Alan. Been there done that.

Dawn

[Peter Lemkin]

It is my opinion that Pitzer was murdered...he knew too many of the wrong things - such as Truth.

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Pitzer/homicide.html

[Albert Doyle]

PROVE he was there, Albert.

I'm waiting with bated breath.

I think it is reasonable to assume the majority of the evidence shows he was. At that point the question really is prove he wasn't.


Why would Dennis David lie about this?


With all due respect the Eaglesham material is weak tea and even admits there's nothing in it that disproves a classic CIA "suicide". I think it's dishonest to ignore Dan Marvin's witnessing. Wecht merely analyzed the wounds. CIA was quite expert at making covert murder injuries appear to be normal suicide wounds.

People get carried away with sophistry in matters like these. They forget this matter would be quickly solved by sitting Martin Hay down next to eyewitness Dennis David and having him discuss his doubts with him.

[Martin Hay]

PROVE he was there, Albert.

I'm waiting with bated breath.

I think it is reasonable to assume the majority of the evidence shows he was. At that point the question really is prove he wasn't.


Why would Dennis David lie about this?


With all due respect the Eaglesham material is weak tea and even admits there's nothing in it that disproves a classic CIA "suicide". I think it's dishonest to ignore Dan Marvin's witnessing. Wecht merely analyzed the wounds. CIA was quite expert at making covert murder injuries appear to be normal suicide wounds.

People get carried away with sophistry in matters like these. They forget this matter would be quickly solved by sitting Martin Hay down next to eyewitness Dennis David and having him discuss his doubts with him.

Nice side step, Albert.

As soon as you find that proof, drop me a line.

[Martin Hay]

I thoroughly researched this many many years back. No clue where it is now. It was back when Alan E. was posting at EF.
I'm not getting into a pissing contest here with anyone. There has already been enough of that, on a totally different matter. Not blowing you off Marty, just road weary.
We all have the right to come to our individual conclusions.
DAwn

Dawn,

I don't blame you for not wanting to get into a "pissing contest" with Wecht and MacDonnell. Losing is never fun.

I'm not trying to rile anyone here (please remember that Albert was the one who bought this Pitzer garbage up), but too many conspiracy theorists are too happy to believe any little story that confirms their beliefs regardless of what the evidence actually shows. And, I'm sorry, but the Pitzer suicide is a prime example. There is a hundred times more evidence that Oswald shot JFK than there is that Pitzer filmed the autopsy and was murdered because of it. And yet we all rightly question the validity of the evidence against Oswald. Why the hell so many people can't apply those same standards to conspiracy stories and witnesses is beyond me.

This is exactly why Harold Weisberg, being the intelligent man that he was, was so critical of the "conspiracy community".

If you know of any evidence that invalidates the opinions of Cyril Wecht and Herbert MacDonnell then please do let me know. Until then, I will not buy into the "Pitzer was murdered" fable.

[Don Jeffries]

Asking us to "prove" that Pitzer filmed the autopsy is akin to trying to "prove" there was a conspiracy. Those invested in their beliefs will always claim the evidence is suspect. I am shocked that Martin, or anyone else, would not be skeptical of everything that went on at Bethesda during the autopsy, including who was and wasn't "officially" there.

I know this revisionist look at Pitzer's death, which was always included among the mysterious ones Penn Jones and others tabulated so many years ago, was started by Alan Eaglesham. I've exchanged cordial emails with Alan over the years, and have no ax to grind here. But I think this seems to be a personal thing with him, prodded on by his relationship with Dan Marvin.

I think it's still likely that Pitzer was murdered, and Dennis David seems credible to me. Like so many parts of this case, we don't need Pitzer to have been murdered to demonstrate that a lot of witnesses died very conveniently. We also don't need it to prove conspiracy. But there is no reason to reject it out of hand, as too many researchers have done in recent years, with various aspects that once were considered primary indicators of conspiracy. And there certainly isn't "hundreds of times more evidence" that Oswald killed Kennedy.