24-04-2011, 04:30 PM
Albert Doyle Wrote:Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Albert - the terminology matters.
With respect, in my judgement the phrase "MK-ULTRA programmed himself" mixes oranges and apples in a deeply unhelpful way.
I don't see what the big deal is. The example was obviously figurative. Besides, in the MK-ULTRA LSD world apples can very easily morph into oranges. It's a very indeterminate place.
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:If your argument is that a young person with a pre-existing borderline psychiatric condition could develop a full blown psychosis through exposure to LSD whilst surrounded by extreme religious types who considered rock and roll stars such as John Lennon more Antichrist than Guru, then I'm part of the way with you.
The main point being the point Chapman's mind had reached was similar to that induced by the MK Mengele's.
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:However, describing this as "MK-ULTRA self programming" does not aid our understanding of this process. The common cultural phrase for such a person is Acid Casualty.
Would not an MK-ULTRA victim also be an "acid casualty" of sorts?
This is splitting hairs. The real business here is evidence Bresler found of typical CIA involvement in Chapman's being set-up as a Sirhan-like lunatic. What I find most telling about it is no one ever challenged Bresler's evidence.
LSD, while you may feel is the most 'potent' of MK-ULTRA drugs was not...it was, in massive doses in the mid-range. There were stronger and there were more 'effective' in programming. Most importantly, it was a 'mix' of several drugs plus suggestion plus hypnosis, plus regression, plus sensory deprivation, plus re-programming the personality. [I'm not going to go into the details here where are on the Internet, in books, and even on this Forum].
Saying that under LSD-25 apples can turn into oranges is playing with words, but NOT with concepts.
MK Mengele?!.....what was meant by this. Mengele was pre - MK-ULTRA by a long shot. He was, in some ways great-grandfather to the ethic that became mind-control, but he himself was only inundated to Nazi propaganda, not to drugs and mind-control as we now know it....although he may have dabbled in this on a few of his twins...don't mix things in time or fact, please.
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