19-10-2012, 08:36 PM
(This post was last modified: 19-10-2012, 09:55 PM by Jeffrey Orling.)
Lemkin,
Quit the ad homs. It is undignified. I explained by history of / with 9-11 and I will do it once more because you persist and making what are insulting and even slanderous remarks.
Like many others I was surprised when the towers fell as I live in NYC and had a biz only 8 blocks from them for many years and visited the site many times. I just never conceived that a well built structure could collapse so completely. Many other in the building industry had the same first reaction.
I waited to learn of the official explanation and meanwhile was pissed at how long it took and how quickly the nation was pushed to support a war in the ME... And that made no sense at all to me... not for vengeance nor because those nation could not be a threat to the USA. It was bullying and a play for oil/gas and power.
I have been protesting the US militarism since Vietnam when luckily my lotto number meant I didn't have to run off to Canada or sit in jail. I've been to scores of anti war and other anti government demonstrations and have been arrested and spent the night in jail for my beliefs. So I am neither a fool nor a government stooge or agent.
I followed the developments about 9-11 on the WWW and signed the AE911T petition in 07 as I felt this was the group which represented my standing as an architect. I signed a couple of other petitions as well.
At the 8th anniversary of 9-11 approached in '09 I heard that there was a weekend conference at St Mark's Church on 10th street and among the presenters was to be Richard Gage. I decided it was time to get out and get more involved so my wife and I attended the We Demand Transparency conference Sander Hicks organized. I listened and met several presenters chatted with a few such as Craig Ranke from CIT, Barry Zwicker, Barry Kissip and Russ Baker and of course Gage and Tony Szambotti who was from NJ and an AE911T member. I offered my time to Gage to help get the interest for a new investigation. I wrote him a long letter listing what I believed were the lies of the official account. He phoned me and invited to his weekly strategy team call. I listened. I didn't know exactly what I could do or what the group actually did.
After listening in on a few calls I emailed Gage with some ideas for improving their collaborative *virtual* organization. One of them was to use BaseCamp a collaboration software product I had used on one of my own projects involved several professionals working together. BaseCamp was installed and I was assigned to be the go to guy and teach others how to use it. I also populated it with articles and so forth including ones trying to get members to discuss the technical aspects/b building performance. I was advocating for that AE911T undertake an FEA - finite element analysis using some of the petition signer's expertise.
Gage appointed me his *liaison* to all the team leaders and we spoke daily about AE911T issues. I got more involved and was the person who planned the AE911T 1000 press conference/event in SF. I designed the alteration to the logo and made many suggestions which were implemented. Some were not and were resisted by the volunteers. One of them was to use the term *engineered destruction* as opposed to *controlled demolition*. Gage and Board member Deets liked the idea. It was about this time I was invited to be a Board member. I refused. Gage insisted that I accept and so after a week of cajoling I did. I never served on a board and never wanted to. Again I listened mostly at the teleconference board meetings.
A group of volunteers decided that the installation of Basecamp and the suggestion to use *engineered destruction* language was a clear sign that I was a Sunstein cognitive infiltrator. They got together and presented Gage with the demand that I be ousted from the group or they would refuse to work on the 1000 press conference. The entire incident would have been laughable but the *reformer* group was deadly serious.
Gage was stuck between a rock and a hard place being essentially blackmailed into tossing me out in exchange for their work in the presser. He stood by me and the board established a grievance process which would deal with their charges AFTER the presser was over. They refused to accept the grievance process. And then Gage called me and begged me to just step down from the board. But they wanted me purged from AE911T entirely.
As a board member I learned about where some bodies are buried, but I see no point in going that route. As unsettling as these facts were, they had nothing to do with me and were before my time. I refused to resign because I had done nothing to merit a resignation. John Cole and Justin Keogh were working with the *reformer group* and set about to have me voted off the board... among other things. The board vote did not have the votes to get me off.
Cole and Keogh then called an unannounced board meeting and offered new bylaws which allowed for a simple, not a super majority to expel a member (me) and without cause. They then suggested at the next board meeting that Kevin Ryan be added to the board. I had no problem with that and voted for him.
The first order of business once he was *seated* was a vote to expel me. Deets spoke against it. Gage praised my work but said that my presence now was blocking the group from working together. This was true, but not from my side. It's a much longer detailed tale... but the board voted me off the island and that was that.
I was then free to conduct my own research and fact checking... which is what I did. When I discovered from my research and fact checking that the statement about high speed ejections of massive steel to 600+ feet at 60-70mph was wrong I wrote Gage an email detailing my findings. I asked him to check them out and see if he (the group's *experts*) agreed. if they did he should revise this statement he often makes. He said he would look into it can get back to me. He never did.
I ran into Gage at the Treason In America conference. At that conference Sander Hicks who I had become friends of sorts with took my work - a presentment of Misprision of Treason and offered it to the Conference to sign on to. When he saw me sitting in the audience he sheepishly ...before he began pointed to me and gave the credit for having written what he was presenting (without prior consultation BTW). Not very cool... but I suppose all is fair in love and war. During a break Gage sauntered over to me and began to chat forgetting that he had a month before stabbed me in the back. What are friends for?
Later than summer I attended another Sander Hicks event at his summer home in the catskills at Livingston Manor. It was a small event and I met several of the other activists. Gage was to be there and I wanted to present my most recent work and get his reaction. He came late crashed upstairs and when he came down we spoke alone for about 1/2 hr. After I was done his comment was...."when I saw the towers come down I intuitively knew they were taken down by CD". So much for building performance analysis or mapping the movements of the building parts and so forth... and science and engineering and building professionals. It was at that moment I realized Gage was simply a front man for marketing AE911T. It WAS his career now and he was paying himself from the proceeds of the organization about 100,000$ plus his travel expenses to run around the world and do his same old dog and pony show. I told him that the dust was not 4-12" deep for miles around the WTC after the collapse. But he repeated this in the Fall to the audience when he spoke at the 9th anniversary event on Walker Street when the third beam was shown into the sky.
Now the movement began appearing cult like to me. I attempted to speak with *truthers* there and at a few more 9-11 conferences over the next year. Not a person had any technical understanding of the buildings, had done a shred of research but all parroted the same talking points which they did understand.
I was by them a orphan of the movement and still seeking the understanding of the twin tower's destruction. But I had a working theory and I did get support for my ideas from a former AE911T engineer who had published in the Journal of 911 Science...Gordon Ross PE. He left the movement because he was fed up with the conversation being dominated by what he termed in an email to me bakers and candlestick makers who understood nothing about what they were speaking about (Lemkin?)
I did attend a NIST critique at the Christian Regenhard Center at Jon Jay College and met Jame Quintierre who was a fire Professor and had been booted out of NIST for wanting to do a proper investigation. He found my ideas interesting but said he had no engineering background to properly evaluate them. Wayne Coste of AE911T was obnoxious (my opinion!) and set up a little booth to pass AE911T materials (propaganda?) when the conference was about fire and disaster investigations and specifically what NIST did or did not do re 9/11.
I am perfectly fine not being inside the 9/11 truth movement. I've learned more about the event on my own, doing my own research and studying the work of other scientists and physicists who have no political agenda and are simply interested in the technical accuracy to explain the collapses. I can assure Laren and Dawn that reports from reporters are not considered technical evidence and such does not influence the research.
I certainly can see that NIST blew it big time on many things. My sense is that they were covering up... but since we haven't found hard evidence of CD the coverup of collapses must be for another purpose. I can only speculate. I still try to pass on my findings and thinking to others on 911 discussion groups. It's pretty futile for several reasons. Most simply have no technical background at all. And all seem to relie on others for this... including author David Griffin who wrote a book about the collapse of WTC 7 but answered one of my emails buy saying the question was technical and above his pay grade. Dr G is a clipping gatherer who strings what others put out into a logic matrix and extracts conclusions. He's done no technical research and should, by his own admission not be writing books about the collapse of building 7.
The problem Lemkin and others have with me is that I will not accept what they think is solid evidence for CD, but I still believe NIST lied and we need a new investigation. When I venture into political frames I am soundly pilloried because I suggest the treason of LIHOP and not accept the inside job, the Israeli/Mossad did it or there giant conspiracy of the unseen deep state. I am told to go off and learn because I an too dumb to get it. So it's indeed a unless and thankless task trying to get people to open their minds and learn a little but about engineering and physics. They want to just cling to their beliefs, parrot their chosen experts (who they can't tell if they are wrong or right) and attack anyone who refuses to think like them leveling the accusation of fool or Sunstein agent with the intent of silencing or intimidation.
This forum has been instructive of the how intelligent people can be blinded by their beliefs to be completely comfortable in their ignorance about the world and rely on others to explain it to them. It's no wonder the truth movement has made no progress in 10 plus years in revealing how those towers came down. And they will not do it in another 10. They are not interested in it. Not one bit. They already know. Ashley Banfield, Peter Jennings et al told them so.
You can bring a horse to water but you can't make her think
Quit the ad homs. It is undignified. I explained by history of / with 9-11 and I will do it once more because you persist and making what are insulting and even slanderous remarks.
Like many others I was surprised when the towers fell as I live in NYC and had a biz only 8 blocks from them for many years and visited the site many times. I just never conceived that a well built structure could collapse so completely. Many other in the building industry had the same first reaction.
I waited to learn of the official explanation and meanwhile was pissed at how long it took and how quickly the nation was pushed to support a war in the ME... And that made no sense at all to me... not for vengeance nor because those nation could not be a threat to the USA. It was bullying and a play for oil/gas and power.
I have been protesting the US militarism since Vietnam when luckily my lotto number meant I didn't have to run off to Canada or sit in jail. I've been to scores of anti war and other anti government demonstrations and have been arrested and spent the night in jail for my beliefs. So I am neither a fool nor a government stooge or agent.
I followed the developments about 9-11 on the WWW and signed the AE911T petition in 07 as I felt this was the group which represented my standing as an architect. I signed a couple of other petitions as well.
At the 8th anniversary of 9-11 approached in '09 I heard that there was a weekend conference at St Mark's Church on 10th street and among the presenters was to be Richard Gage. I decided it was time to get out and get more involved so my wife and I attended the We Demand Transparency conference Sander Hicks organized. I listened and met several presenters chatted with a few such as Craig Ranke from CIT, Barry Zwicker, Barry Kissip and Russ Baker and of course Gage and Tony Szambotti who was from NJ and an AE911T member. I offered my time to Gage to help get the interest for a new investigation. I wrote him a long letter listing what I believed were the lies of the official account. He phoned me and invited to his weekly strategy team call. I listened. I didn't know exactly what I could do or what the group actually did.
After listening in on a few calls I emailed Gage with some ideas for improving their collaborative *virtual* organization. One of them was to use BaseCamp a collaboration software product I had used on one of my own projects involved several professionals working together. BaseCamp was installed and I was assigned to be the go to guy and teach others how to use it. I also populated it with articles and so forth including ones trying to get members to discuss the technical aspects/b building performance. I was advocating for that AE911T undertake an FEA - finite element analysis using some of the petition signer's expertise.
Gage appointed me his *liaison* to all the team leaders and we spoke daily about AE911T issues. I got more involved and was the person who planned the AE911T 1000 press conference/event in SF. I designed the alteration to the logo and made many suggestions which were implemented. Some were not and were resisted by the volunteers. One of them was to use the term *engineered destruction* as opposed to *controlled demolition*. Gage and Board member Deets liked the idea. It was about this time I was invited to be a Board member. I refused. Gage insisted that I accept and so after a week of cajoling I did. I never served on a board and never wanted to. Again I listened mostly at the teleconference board meetings.
A group of volunteers decided that the installation of Basecamp and the suggestion to use *engineered destruction* language was a clear sign that I was a Sunstein cognitive infiltrator. They got together and presented Gage with the demand that I be ousted from the group or they would refuse to work on the 1000 press conference. The entire incident would have been laughable but the *reformer* group was deadly serious.
Gage was stuck between a rock and a hard place being essentially blackmailed into tossing me out in exchange for their work in the presser. He stood by me and the board established a grievance process which would deal with their charges AFTER the presser was over. They refused to accept the grievance process. And then Gage called me and begged me to just step down from the board. But they wanted me purged from AE911T entirely.
As a board member I learned about where some bodies are buried, but I see no point in going that route. As unsettling as these facts were, they had nothing to do with me and were before my time. I refused to resign because I had done nothing to merit a resignation. John Cole and Justin Keogh were working with the *reformer group* and set about to have me voted off the board... among other things. The board vote did not have the votes to get me off.
Cole and Keogh then called an unannounced board meeting and offered new bylaws which allowed for a simple, not a super majority to expel a member (me) and without cause. They then suggested at the next board meeting that Kevin Ryan be added to the board. I had no problem with that and voted for him.
The first order of business once he was *seated* was a vote to expel me. Deets spoke against it. Gage praised my work but said that my presence now was blocking the group from working together. This was true, but not from my side. It's a much longer detailed tale... but the board voted me off the island and that was that.
I was then free to conduct my own research and fact checking... which is what I did. When I discovered from my research and fact checking that the statement about high speed ejections of massive steel to 600+ feet at 60-70mph was wrong I wrote Gage an email detailing my findings. I asked him to check them out and see if he (the group's *experts*) agreed. if they did he should revise this statement he often makes. He said he would look into it can get back to me. He never did.
I ran into Gage at the Treason In America conference. At that conference Sander Hicks who I had become friends of sorts with took my work - a presentment of Misprision of Treason and offered it to the Conference to sign on to. When he saw me sitting in the audience he sheepishly ...before he began pointed to me and gave the credit for having written what he was presenting (without prior consultation BTW). Not very cool... but I suppose all is fair in love and war. During a break Gage sauntered over to me and began to chat forgetting that he had a month before stabbed me in the back. What are friends for?
Later than summer I attended another Sander Hicks event at his summer home in the catskills at Livingston Manor. It was a small event and I met several of the other activists. Gage was to be there and I wanted to present my most recent work and get his reaction. He came late crashed upstairs and when he came down we spoke alone for about 1/2 hr. After I was done his comment was...."when I saw the towers come down I intuitively knew they were taken down by CD". So much for building performance analysis or mapping the movements of the building parts and so forth... and science and engineering and building professionals. It was at that moment I realized Gage was simply a front man for marketing AE911T. It WAS his career now and he was paying himself from the proceeds of the organization about 100,000$ plus his travel expenses to run around the world and do his same old dog and pony show. I told him that the dust was not 4-12" deep for miles around the WTC after the collapse. But he repeated this in the Fall to the audience when he spoke at the 9th anniversary event on Walker Street when the third beam was shown into the sky.
Now the movement began appearing cult like to me. I attempted to speak with *truthers* there and at a few more 9-11 conferences over the next year. Not a person had any technical understanding of the buildings, had done a shred of research but all parroted the same talking points which they did understand.
I was by them a orphan of the movement and still seeking the understanding of the twin tower's destruction. But I had a working theory and I did get support for my ideas from a former AE911T engineer who had published in the Journal of 911 Science...Gordon Ross PE. He left the movement because he was fed up with the conversation being dominated by what he termed in an email to me bakers and candlestick makers who understood nothing about what they were speaking about (Lemkin?)
I did attend a NIST critique at the Christian Regenhard Center at Jon Jay College and met Jame Quintierre who was a fire Professor and had been booted out of NIST for wanting to do a proper investigation. He found my ideas interesting but said he had no engineering background to properly evaluate them. Wayne Coste of AE911T was obnoxious (my opinion!) and set up a little booth to pass AE911T materials (propaganda?) when the conference was about fire and disaster investigations and specifically what NIST did or did not do re 9/11.
I am perfectly fine not being inside the 9/11 truth movement. I've learned more about the event on my own, doing my own research and studying the work of other scientists and physicists who have no political agenda and are simply interested in the technical accuracy to explain the collapses. I can assure Laren and Dawn that reports from reporters are not considered technical evidence and such does not influence the research.
I certainly can see that NIST blew it big time on many things. My sense is that they were covering up... but since we haven't found hard evidence of CD the coverup of collapses must be for another purpose. I can only speculate. I still try to pass on my findings and thinking to others on 911 discussion groups. It's pretty futile for several reasons. Most simply have no technical background at all. And all seem to relie on others for this... including author David Griffin who wrote a book about the collapse of WTC 7 but answered one of my emails buy saying the question was technical and above his pay grade. Dr G is a clipping gatherer who strings what others put out into a logic matrix and extracts conclusions. He's done no technical research and should, by his own admission not be writing books about the collapse of building 7.
The problem Lemkin and others have with me is that I will not accept what they think is solid evidence for CD, but I still believe NIST lied and we need a new investigation. When I venture into political frames I am soundly pilloried because I suggest the treason of LIHOP and not accept the inside job, the Israeli/Mossad did it or there giant conspiracy of the unseen deep state. I am told to go off and learn because I an too dumb to get it. So it's indeed a unless and thankless task trying to get people to open their minds and learn a little but about engineering and physics. They want to just cling to their beliefs, parrot their chosen experts (who they can't tell if they are wrong or right) and attack anyone who refuses to think like them leveling the accusation of fool or Sunstein agent with the intent of silencing or intimidation.
This forum has been instructive of the how intelligent people can be blinded by their beliefs to be completely comfortable in their ignorance about the world and rely on others to explain it to them. It's no wonder the truth movement has made no progress in 10 plus years in revealing how those towers came down. And they will not do it in another 10. They are not interested in it. Not one bit. They already know. Ashley Banfield, Peter Jennings et al told them so.
You can bring a horse to water but you can't make her think