15-04-2015, 09:00 PM
[quote=Bob Prudhomme]
My responses in BOLD
"I'm still waiting for an answer to whether or not someone instructed Baker to include the window in the lunch-room door and who exactly that was if Baker never entered? Or told him to fabricate a man on the 4th floor landing? Since you are saying Baker fabricated this report how could that not be evidence of falsification? And since you yourself are saying Baker falsified evidence then why couldn't Fritz have misrepresented the notes?"
That's a question that you will never get answered Bob. Never. Three times he mentions his affidavit during his testimony and three times they ignore it and move on. Baker's testimony is from March 20th while Truly was the next week.... BELIN was most certainly aware of Baker's affidavit yet lets Truly do his little dance:
Mr. BELIN. Now, Mr. Truly, you then went up to the third floor with Officer Baker.
Mr. TRULY. We continued on until we reached the fifth floor.
Mr. BELIN. Now, by the way, I have used the name Officer Baker. When did you find out what his name was?
Mr. TRULY. I never did know for sure what his name was until he was down to the building and you were interviewing him last week.
Mr. BELIN. This was on Friday, March 20th
And yes... Somehow Baker is convinced to support the lunchroom story...
Baker's first day affidavit makes no mention whatsoever of a 2nd floor encounter with Oswald, or anyone else, for that matter. However, the 4th floor encounter, which closely mirrors the 2nd floor encounter, is in this first day statement.
If, in fact, the 2nd floor encounter was a fabrication, wouldn't it be necessary to include such details as the window on the 2nd floor lunch room door? Could someone not supply Baker with such details?
The point of this matter is Baker may very well have ascended the TSBD stairs with Truly, but the available evidence points to this event occurring much later than either Truly's or Baker's testimony would have us believe.
For instance, Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles left the 4th floor immediately after the shots, and should have encountered Baker and Truly at some point, but did not. They also should have heard Oswald on the noisy wooden stairs, but did not.
Ms. Adams DID testify to seeing Billy Lovelady and Bill Shelley on the main floor, near the elevators, but this is an impossibility, too, if Ms. Adams' PLUS Shelley's and Lovelady's testimonies are to be believed.
The weak link in this entire chain is the testimony of Shelley and Lovelady. Their first day statements put them re-entering the TSBD almost immediately, while their testimonies have them standing on the TSBD steps for 3-4 minutes following the shots, and then going down to the rail yards and re-entering the TSBD from the rear. Ms. Adams testified that she immediately exited the TSBD by a rear door, upon her arrival on the main floor, and she would have been long gone before Shelley and Lovelady re-entered the rear of the TSBD.
However, this testimony from Shelley and Lovelady presents us with yet another timing problem, as Baker testified to the WC that he entered the front of the TSBD within 20 seconds of the final shot. Shelley and Lovelady are the only witnesses who could recall seeing Baker and Truly entering the front of the TSBD, and they testified to being 25 steps down the Elm St. extension when they observed this event.
We do need to consider that some of this was simply bad memory or poor recollection - timing of things are sequence can be very difficult months after the fact... I agree they are both very suspicious and the conflicts abound... yet relying on people to be accurate related to how long things take is not where I'd rest my conclusions. POWELL shows that Adams is not at the window any longer and that was 30 seconds? afterward...
If they remained on the TSBD steps for 3-4 minutes, how could they possibly be 25 steps down the Elm St. extension when they saw Baker entering the front of the TSBD?
There are some serious lies being told here, (DJ !!!) and the fact that several witnesses on the steps who were standing right at the front door could not recall, in questioning by a WC lawyer, seeing a white helmeted motorcycle cop entering the front door of the TSBD, strongly indicates that Baker did NOT enter the front of the TSBD but, rather, ran right past the TSBD front steps and, if he did enter the TSBD, did so by a rear door, and did so much later than he testified
What can't be argued is what the physical evidence offered says... the affidavit and the obvious conflict with the entire lunchroom scene. I know I sound like a broken record but if Armstrong is right, it may have been Lee coming down the stairs and Harvey in the lunchroom... yet then we get the story from Mrs Reid about Oswald in only a T-shirt - so it would have to be LEE who leaves that way.
Mr. BELIN. How did you know the person you saw was Lee Harvey Oswald on the second floor?
Mrs. REID. Because it looked just like him.
Mr. BELIN. You mean the picture with the name Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. REID. Oh, yes.
Mr. BELIN. But you had seen him in the building?
Mrs. REID. Other than that day, sure.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what clothes he had on when you saw him?
Mrs. REID. What he was wearing, he had on a white T-shirt and some kind of wash trousers. What color I couldn't tell you.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit, first 157 and then 158, and I will ask you if either or both look like they might have been the trousers that you saw him wear or can you tell?
Mrs. REID. I just couldn't be positive about that. I would rather not say, because I just cannot.
M[B]r. BELIN. Do you remember whether he had any shirt or jacket on over his T-shirt?
Mrs. REID. He did not. He did not have any jacket on. [/B]
This could also be part of the "assisted testimony" to better ID this person as Oswald - and Truly is never asked what the man was wearing... EVERYONE is asked what he was wearing except Truly.
Mr. BELIN - Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came up to you?
Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.
Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.
Mr. BELIN - Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150, would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he came. I wouldn't be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt was a little bit darker than that whenever I saw him in the homicide office there
Mr. BELIN. Could you see Lee Harvey Oswald's hands?
Mr. TRULY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Could you see--
Mr. TRULY. I am sure I could, yes. I could see most of him, because I was looking in the room on an angle, and they were this way.
Representative FORD. In your description of Oswald to Captain Fritz, did you describe the kind of clothes that Oswald had on that day?
Mr. TRULY. I don't know, sir. No, sir; I just told him his name and where he lived and his telephone number and his age, as 23, and I said 5 feet, 9, about 150 pounds, light brown hair--whatever I picked up off the description there. I did not try to depend on my memory to describe him. I just put down what was on this application blank. That's the reason I called Mr. Aiken, because I did not want to mislead anybody as to a description. I might call a man brown-halted, and he might be blonde.
My responses in BOLD
"I'm still waiting for an answer to whether or not someone instructed Baker to include the window in the lunch-room door and who exactly that was if Baker never entered? Or told him to fabricate a man on the 4th floor landing? Since you are saying Baker fabricated this report how could that not be evidence of falsification? And since you yourself are saying Baker falsified evidence then why couldn't Fritz have misrepresented the notes?"
That's a question that you will never get answered Bob. Never. Three times he mentions his affidavit during his testimony and three times they ignore it and move on. Baker's testimony is from March 20th while Truly was the next week.... BELIN was most certainly aware of Baker's affidavit yet lets Truly do his little dance:
Mr. BELIN. Now, Mr. Truly, you then went up to the third floor with Officer Baker.
Mr. TRULY. We continued on until we reached the fifth floor.
Mr. BELIN. Now, by the way, I have used the name Officer Baker. When did you find out what his name was?
Mr. TRULY. I never did know for sure what his name was until he was down to the building and you were interviewing him last week.
Mr. BELIN. This was on Friday, March 20th
And yes... Somehow Baker is convinced to support the lunchroom story...
Baker's first day affidavit makes no mention whatsoever of a 2nd floor encounter with Oswald, or anyone else, for that matter. However, the 4th floor encounter, which closely mirrors the 2nd floor encounter, is in this first day statement.
If, in fact, the 2nd floor encounter was a fabrication, wouldn't it be necessary to include such details as the window on the 2nd floor lunch room door? Could someone not supply Baker with such details?
The point of this matter is Baker may very well have ascended the TSBD stairs with Truly, but the available evidence points to this event occurring much later than either Truly's or Baker's testimony would have us believe.
For instance, Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles left the 4th floor immediately after the shots, and should have encountered Baker and Truly at some point, but did not. They also should have heard Oswald on the noisy wooden stairs, but did not.
Ms. Adams DID testify to seeing Billy Lovelady and Bill Shelley on the main floor, near the elevators, but this is an impossibility, too, if Ms. Adams' PLUS Shelley's and Lovelady's testimonies are to be believed.
The weak link in this entire chain is the testimony of Shelley and Lovelady. Their first day statements put them re-entering the TSBD almost immediately, while their testimonies have them standing on the TSBD steps for 3-4 minutes following the shots, and then going down to the rail yards and re-entering the TSBD from the rear. Ms. Adams testified that she immediately exited the TSBD by a rear door, upon her arrival on the main floor, and she would have been long gone before Shelley and Lovelady re-entered the rear of the TSBD.
However, this testimony from Shelley and Lovelady presents us with yet another timing problem, as Baker testified to the WC that he entered the front of the TSBD within 20 seconds of the final shot. Shelley and Lovelady are the only witnesses who could recall seeing Baker and Truly entering the front of the TSBD, and they testified to being 25 steps down the Elm St. extension when they observed this event.
We do need to consider that some of this was simply bad memory or poor recollection - timing of things are sequence can be very difficult months after the fact... I agree they are both very suspicious and the conflicts abound... yet relying on people to be accurate related to how long things take is not where I'd rest my conclusions. POWELL shows that Adams is not at the window any longer and that was 30 seconds? afterward...
If they remained on the TSBD steps for 3-4 minutes, how could they possibly be 25 steps down the Elm St. extension when they saw Baker entering the front of the TSBD?
There are some serious lies being told here, (DJ !!!) and the fact that several witnesses on the steps who were standing right at the front door could not recall, in questioning by a WC lawyer, seeing a white helmeted motorcycle cop entering the front door of the TSBD, strongly indicates that Baker did NOT enter the front of the TSBD but, rather, ran right past the TSBD front steps and, if he did enter the TSBD, did so by a rear door, and did so much later than he testified
What can't be argued is what the physical evidence offered says... the affidavit and the obvious conflict with the entire lunchroom scene. I know I sound like a broken record but if Armstrong is right, it may have been Lee coming down the stairs and Harvey in the lunchroom... yet then we get the story from Mrs Reid about Oswald in only a T-shirt - so it would have to be LEE who leaves that way.
Mr. BELIN. How did you know the person you saw was Lee Harvey Oswald on the second floor?
Mrs. REID. Because it looked just like him.
Mr. BELIN. You mean the picture with the name Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. REID. Oh, yes.
Mr. BELIN. But you had seen him in the building?
Mrs. REID. Other than that day, sure.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what clothes he had on when you saw him?
Mrs. REID. What he was wearing, he had on a white T-shirt and some kind of wash trousers. What color I couldn't tell you.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit, first 157 and then 158, and I will ask you if either or both look like they might have been the trousers that you saw him wear or can you tell?
Mrs. REID. I just couldn't be positive about that. I would rather not say, because I just cannot.
M[B]r. BELIN. Do you remember whether he had any shirt or jacket on over his T-shirt?
Mrs. REID. He did not. He did not have any jacket on. [/B]
This could also be part of the "assisted testimony" to better ID this person as Oswald - and Truly is never asked what the man was wearing... EVERYONE is asked what he was wearing except Truly.
Mr. BELIN - Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came up to you?
Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.
Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.
Mr. BELIN - Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150, would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he came. I wouldn't be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt was a little bit darker than that whenever I saw him in the homicide office there
Mr. BELIN. Could you see Lee Harvey Oswald's hands?
Mr. TRULY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Could you see--
Mr. TRULY. I am sure I could, yes. I could see most of him, because I was looking in the room on an angle, and they were this way.
Representative FORD. In your description of Oswald to Captain Fritz, did you describe the kind of clothes that Oswald had on that day?
Mr. TRULY. I don't know, sir. No, sir; I just told him his name and where he lived and his telephone number and his age, as 23, and I said 5 feet, 9, about 150 pounds, light brown hair--whatever I picked up off the description there. I did not try to depend on my memory to describe him. I just put down what was on this application blank. That's the reason I called Mr. Aiken, because I did not want to mislead anybody as to a description. I might call a man brown-halted, and he might be blonde.
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter