Guardian Angels And Fate

[Charles Drago]

Since this thread clearly represents a private conversation of no interest whatsoever to anyone else on DPF, why don't you two -- at least -- get room and leave us?

[Albert Doyle]

I don't know who they are to this day, Nobody does. I have stromg suspicians. But it has taken years to develop them. I was 17 when JFK died and hadn't even begun to question Vietnam. But I must have missed when Dulles, Helms, Phillips, Morales, etc, were tried and went to jail. And who knew at that time Harriman, Prescott and George Bush, along with a number Big Banking/Military Industialists, and several members of the Joint Chiefs, could be involved. IMO they have done a pretty good job of maintaining their plausible deniability. A lot of people who were involved and have known a lot about the conspiracy besides Oswald, maybe they even knew more than he did, have tried to speak out. What has happened to them? I think they could have managed an Oswald trial. They managed Ruby's and he knew a lot too. The reason we got the lone nut instead of Oswald/Castro IMO, is because Hoover was afraid for his reputation and the embarrassment of the Bureau, and Johnson was afraid of WWIII. But I agree with you that at the highest levels it mattered little whether they went into Cuba or Vietnam. They were in a position to take advantage of both.

Yeah, but you must admit the gross desperation to eliminate Oswald shows signs that this was the plan. Why was Tippit eliminated? In order to frame Oswald as a madman who was then gunned-down in the Texas Theater? Surely they hadn't planned on Ruby doing it since his behavior shows he was brought in on an ad lib plan. You're forgetting the captured Oswald could have told his role as far as the uninformed patsy. It is possible this Oswald could have told of being in the lunchroom and getting change for the Coke machine. This would have spoiled the plans of the unknown sponsors.

Gordon, the fact you are talking about them says they haven't done such a good job. They may be arrogant enough to think they can ignore it and get away with it but their actions speak louder than words.

[Gordon Gray]

I don't know who they are to this day, Nobody does. I have stromg suspicians. But it has taken years to develop them. I was 17 when JFK died and hadn't even begun to question Vietnam. But I must have missed when Dulles, Helms, Phillips, Morales, etc, were tried and went to jail. And who knew at that time Harriman, Prescott and George Bush, along with a number Big Banking/Military Industialists, and several members of the Joint Chiefs, could be involved. IMO they have done a pretty good job of maintaining their plausible deniability. A lot of people who were involved and have known a lot about the conspiracy besides Oswald, maybe they even knew more than he did, have tried to speak out. What has happened to them? I think they could have managed an Oswald trial. They managed Ruby's and he knew a lot too. The reason we got the lone nut instead of Oswald/Castro IMO, is because Hoover was afraid for his reputation and the embarrassment of the Bureau, and Johnson was afraid of WWIII. But I agree with you that at the highest levels it mattered little whether they went into Cuba or Vietnam. They were in a position to take advantage of both.

Yeah, but you must admit the gross desperation to eliminate Oswald shows signs that this was the plan. Why was Tippit eliminated? In order to frame Oswald as a madman who was then gunned-down in the Texas Theater? Surely they hadn't planned on Ruby doing it since his behavior shows he was brought in on an ad lib plan. You're forgetting the captured Oswald could have told his role as far as the uninformed patsy. It is possible this Oswald could have told of being in the lunchroom and getting change for the Coke machine. This would have spoiled the plans of the unknown sponsors.

Gordon, the fact you are talking about them says they haven't done such a good job. They may be arrogant enough to think they can ignore it and get away with it but their actions speak louder than words.

This a big question for me. Did Tippit know both Oswalds? If only one, which one? I think the plan was to have Oswald meet with a contact at the Theatre, and then fly him out of the country. One Oswald was in the Theatre when Tippit was shot. Where was the other one heading, and why did he kill Tippit. If he wanted Oswald killed that was less likely to happen if the Police were allerted to go to the Theatre. I don't think the Tippit shooting was planed. As to what Oswald could have told them. it doesn'y matter because nothing of what he siad was recorded. He could have said LBJ was the master mind, for all we know.

[Albert Doyle]

Douglass showed that Julia Postal most likely sold a ticket to one Oswald around 1pm and that Oswald went to the balcony where DPD Stringfellow's files showed he was arrested. If you observe Ernest's recording of Mrs Higgin's statement there's real question whether any Oswald was at the Tippit shooting scene. They tried to hush-up Acquilla Clemons on that as well.

I think the Texas Theater trap was designed to either get Oswald killed when he drew his gun on the cops or frame him as the suspect. Oswald could have been a strict CIA operative and may have drawn his gun in obedience to orders to not be taken alive. He may even have been hypnotized to do that as well. Well within CIA capabilities and cutting-edge techniques at the time, despite the mocking of ignoramuses who don't realize this.

There's no way Oswald wasn't recorded at the police station. The fact they had to lie and erase what he did say tells you he was recorded. It's silly to think the Dallas police would not record the statements of a suspect in the shooting of a police officer. It's also silly to think they would fail to do basic police procedure in the interrogation of a presidential assassin suspect.

[Charles Drago]

Abbott: Goofè Dean. Well, let's see, we have on the bags, Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know is on third...

Costello: That's what I want to find out.

Abbott: I say Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know's on third.

Costello: Are you the manager?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: You gonna be the coach too?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: And you don't know the fellows' names?

Abbott: Well I should.

Costello: Well then who's on first?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: I mean the fellow's name.

Abbott: Who.

Costello: The guy on first.

Abbott: Who.

Costello: The first baseman.

Abbott: Who.

Costello: The guy playing...

Abbott: Who is on first!

Costello: I'm asking YOU who's on first.

Abbott: That's the man's name.

Costello: That's who's name?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: Well go ahead and tell me.

Abbott: That's it.

Costello: That's who?

Abbott: Yes.

PAUSE

Costello: Look, you gotta first baseman?

Abbott: Certainly.

Costello: Who's playing first?

Abbott: That's right.

Costello: When you pay off the first baseman every month, who gets the money?

Abbott: Every dollar of it.

Costello: All I'm trying to find out is the fellow's name on first base.

Abbott: Who.

Costello: The guy that gets...

Abbott: That's it.

Costello: Who gets the money...

Abbott: He does, every dollar. Sometimes his wife comes down and collects it.

Costello: Who's wife?

Abbott: Yes.

PAUSE

Abbott: What's wrong with that?

Costello: Look, all I wanna know is when you sign up the first baseman, how does he sign his name?

Abbott: Who.

Costello: The guy.

Abbott: Who.

Costello: How does he sign...

Abbott: That's how he signs it.

Costello: Who?

Abbott: Yes.

PAUSE

Costello: All I'm trying to find out is what's the guy's name on first base.

Abbott: No. What is on second base.

Costello: I'm not asking you who's on second.

Abbott: Who's on first.

Costello: One base at a time!

Abbott: Well, don't change the players around.

Costello: I'm not changing nobody!

Abbott: Take it easy, buddy.

Costello: I'm only asking you, who's the guy on first base?

Abbott: That's right.

Costello: Ok.

Abbott: All right.

PAUSE

Costello: What's the guy's name on first base?

Abbott: No. What is on second.

Costello: I'm not asking you who's on second.

Abbott: Who's on first.

Costello: I don't know.

Abbott: He's on third, we're not talking about him.

Costello: Now how did I get on third base?

Abbott: Why you mentioned his name.

Costello: If I mentioned the third baseman's name, who did I say is playing third?

Abbott: No. Who's playing first.

Costello: What's on first?

Abbott: What's on second.

Costello: I don't know.

Abbott: He's on third.

Costello: There I go, back on third again!

PAUSE

Costello: Would you just stay on third base and don't go off it.

Abbott: All right, what do you want to know?

Costello: Now who's playing third base?

Abbott: Why do you insist on putting Who on third base?

Costello: What am I putting on third.

Abbott: No. What is on second.

Costello: You don't want who on second?

Abbott: Who is on first.

Costello: I don't know.

Abbott & Costello Together:Third base!

PAUSE

Costello: Look, you gotta outfield?

Abbott: Sure.

Costello: The left fielder's name?

Abbott: Why.

Costello: I just thought I'd ask you.

Abbott: Well, I just thought I'd tell ya.

Costello: Then tell me who's playing left field.

Abbott: Who's playing first.

Costello: I'm not... stay out of the infield! I want to know what's the guy's name in left field?

Abbott: No, What is on second.

Costello: I'm not asking you who's on second.

Abbott: Who's on first!

Costello: I don't know.

Abbott & Costello Together: Third base!

PAUSE

Costello: The left fielder's name?

Abbott: Why.

Costello: Because!

Abbott: Oh, he's centerfield.

PAUSE

Costello: Look, You gotta pitcher on this team?

Abbott: Sure.

Costello: The pitcher's name?

Abbott: Tomorrow.

Costello: You don't want to tell me today?

Abbott: I'm telling you now.

Costello: Then go ahead.

Abbott: Tomorrow!

Costello: What time?

Abbott: What time what?

Costello: What time tomorrow are you gonna tell me who's pitching?

Abbott: Now listen. Who is not pitching.

Costello: I'll break your arm, you say who's on first! I want to know what's the pitcher's name?

Abbott: What's on second.

Costello: I don't know.

Abbott & Costello Together: Third base!

PAUSE

Costello: Gotta a catcher?

Abbott: Certainly.

Costello: The catcher's name?

Abbott: Today.

Costello: Today, and tomorrow's pitching.

Abbott: Now you've got it.

Costello: All we got is a couple of days on the team.

PAUSE

Costello: You know I'm a catcher too.

Abbott: So they tell me.

Costello: I get behind the plate to do some fancy catching, Tomorrow's pitching on my team and a heavy hitter gets up. Now the heavy hitter bunts the ball. When he bunts the ball, me, being a good catcher, I'm gonna throw the guy out at first base. So I pick up the ball and throw it to who?

Abbott: Now that's the first thing you've said right.

Costello: I don't even know what I'm talking about!

PAUSE

Abbott: That's all you have to do.

Costello: Is to throw the ball to first base.

Abbott: Yes!

Costello: Now who's got it?

Abbott: Naturally.

PAUSE

Costello: Look, if I throw the ball to first base, somebody's gotta get it. Now who has it?

Abbott: Naturally.

Costello: Who?

Abbott: Naturally.

Costello: Naturally?

Abbott: Naturally.

Costello: So I pick up the ball and I throw it to Naturally.

Abbott: No you don't, you throw the ball to Who.

Costello: Naturally.

Abbott: That's different.

Costello: That's what I said.

Abbott: You're not saying it...

Costello: I throw the ball to Naturally.

Abbott: You throw it to Who.

Costello: Naturally.

Abbott: That's it.

Costello: That's what I said!

Abbott: You ask me.

Costello: I throw the ball to who?

Abbott: Naturally.

Costello: Now you ask me.

Abbott: You throw the ball to Who?

Costello: Naturally.

Abbott: That's it.

Costello: Same as you! Same as YOU! I throw the ball to who. Whoever it is drops the ball and the guy runs to second. Who picks up the ball and throws it to What. What throws it to I Don't Know. I Don't Know throws it back to Tomorrow, Triple play. Another guy gets up and hits a long fly ball to Because. Why? I don't know! He's on third and I don't give a darn!

Abbott: What?

Costello: I said I don't give a darn!

Abbott: Oh, that's our shortstop.