Albert Rossi Wrote:Interesting point about the timing of the brake light re Hill's movements.
I have no idea. Bond says she took pictures of the crowd. Of course, there are those reports about Army Intel guys taking photographs.
You have any ideas?
I did an overlay of all the films from their source... the blue area facing the GK is the Muchmore footage... Nix and Bell overlap yet these are only the KNOWN films.
If the military was also filming... ??
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5133[/ATTACH]
What surprises most about Muchmore is the ability to capture just the limo at the exact moment of the shot - and then claim she did catch the assassiantion of film....
At 22 seconds of what I have as Muchmore #1 (limo on Houston) she switches from zoom to a wider angle... as the limo heads off down Houston, she turns to move to her left toward the GK.
The scene cuts to a ZOOMED IN view of just the limo.. at a very high focal length compared to the scene she had just cut from AFTER switching to a wider angle.
I thought I had a series of photos taken of that corner, Houston/Main/Commerce during a study of where all the photographers were... that could help us ID who was there doing what...
But I can't seem to find it. If Muchmore did film this and doesn't tell the FBI with a desire to sell the film and not have it taken by the G-men... I guess that works...
Need to do more digging
DJ
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
David, I've always been willing to be convinced by the alterationists' arguments, but I never have been. My biggest problem is, knowing what we do about the chain of possession of the Z-film, when could all of this have been done?
Tracy Riddle Wrote:David, I've always been willing to be convinced by the alterationists' arguments, but I never have been. My biggest problem is, knowing what we do about the chain of possession of the Z-film, when could all of this have been done?
What chain of possession? I can see several opportunities.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Tracy Riddle Wrote:David, I've always been willing to be convinced by the alterationists' arguments, but I never have been. My biggest problem is, knowing what we do about the chain of possession of the Z-film, when could all of this have been done?
Tracy - there's a lot of discussion on the opportunities in the thread:
"It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted...."
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War." Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon
"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta." The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war
Tracy Riddle Wrote:David, I've always been willing to be convinced by the alterationists' arguments, but I never have been. My biggest problem is, knowing what we do about the chain of possession of the Z-film, when could all of this have been done?
Given that this thread is about Muchmore and the Brake lights... I will be back in a couple hours and either revive my old thread on the Zfilm... or start a new one....
I will bring it up to date with what I've been working on - specifically WHEN and HOW - and then we can pick that apart and see what shakes out...
Ask yourself... given what you know about the EVIDENCE in this case... how likely is it that the Secret Sevice allowed Zapruder to keep his film after 0183 is created AND COPIED by 8pm Friday night?
and two - which film did Max Phillips send to Rowley Friday night (DeLoach swears he sees this film late late night, early morning Saturday. And then what happens to this copy?
DJ
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
21-08-2013, 07:14 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2013, 07:54 PM by David Healy.)
Tracy Riddle Wrote:David, I've always been willing to be convinced by the alterationists' arguments, but I never have been. My biggest problem is, knowing what we do about the chain of possession of the Z-film, when could all of this have been done?
Hello Tracy... I suspect the powers to be at DPF would like to see future comments re this subject matter under a different thread heading.
Having said that I'll make a final comment: the Warren Commission, as a group, had their official (first-last) screening of the Zapruder film, late February (thereabouts) 1964. The film was presented by FBI SA Shaneyfelt. Attested to as "fact," the in-camera original Zapruder film capturing the assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy-President of the United States, Nov 22nd 1963 --Dallas, Texas. What determinations concerning the assassination AFTER screening the Z-film (by the commission), I don't know. But, I suspect any post screening discussion resolved around "a lone gunman" and the murder of JFK.
Chain of possession/location re the original Zapruder film and the 3 1st generation dupes? There isn't one, no timestamps. We do have reports, many in fact, much hearsay and conjecture, that's it! Formal chain of possession, doesn't exist!
Having said THAT: I charged myself 1n 1998 to determine if in fact, optical film-lab equipment, the knowledge base, optical film technician(s), technical manpower, post-production film management AND artistic expertise was available to alter (any type, any level of alteration) the in-camera Zapruder film, creating thusly a NEW and improved,for whatever reason, 8mm Zapruder film (accomplishing same via 8mm-35mm film blowup) during the following time frame: late 11/1963 thru late 02/1964. Those requirements were met for that time frame.
That time frame provided professionals sufficient time to accomplish any type, no matter how sophisticated, (believable) alteration to the Zapruder film. Based on my understanding, the WC did NOT screen the film frame-by-frame. The primary and ONLY viewing audience of the Zapruder was the Warren Commission and staff members! In my estimation, based on my film-video compositing experience 10-14 days to do the job.
Closing, the Zapruder film as seen by the Warren Commission late Feb '64, was to never see the light of day, as a motion FILM after that screening. Specifically, laced up in a projector and projected onto a film screen--ANYWHERE, ANYTIME. The alleged Zapruder film currently housed at NARA (National Archives) screened by the Warren Commission, hasn't!
YouTube has the 2003 Great Zapruder Film HOAX Univ. of Minn. film symposium. I presented covering this "was it possible..." subject matter during that symposium. Fellow presenters were Dr. David Mantick, Dr. John Costella, Dr. Jim Fetzer, David Lifton and Jack White. ALL Z-film symposium presentations are located on YouTUBE.
My original 'written' presentation was posted to Rich DellaRosa's forum in 1997, I'm not sure (I doubt) if that written presentation carried over to this site (under: DellaRosa archive).
Tracy Riddle Wrote:David, I've always been willing to be convinced by the alterationists' arguments, but I never have been. My biggest problem is, knowing what we do about the chain of possession of the Z-film, when could all of this have been done?
Hello Tracy... I suspect the powers to be at DPF would like to see future comments re this subject matter under a different thread heading.
Having said that I'll make a final comment: the Warren Commission, as a group, had their official (first-last) screening of the Zapruder film, late February (thereabouts) 1964. The film was presented by FBI SA Shaneyfelt. Attested to as "fact," the in-camera original Zapruder film capturing the assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy-President of the United States, Nov 22nd 1963 --Dallas, Texas. What determinations concerning the assassination AFTER screening the Z-film (by the commission), I don't know. But, I suspect any post screening discussion resolved around "a lone gunman" and the murdered of JFK.
Chain of possession/location re the original Zapruder film and the 3 1st generation dupes? There isn't one, no timestamps. We do have reports, many in fact, much hearsay and conjecture, that's it! Formal chain of possession, doesn't exist!
Having said THAT: I charged myself 1n 1998 to determine if in fact, optical film-lab equipment, the knowledge base, optical film technician(s)/technical manpower, post-production film management AND artistic expertise was available to alter (any type, any level of alteration) the in-camera Zapruder film, creating thusly a NEW and improved,for whatever reason, 8mm Zapruder film (accomplishing same via 8mm-35mm film blowup) during the following time frame: late 11/1963 thru late 02/1964. Those requirements were met, for that timeframe.
That time frame provided professionals sufficient time to accomplish any type, no matter how sophisticated, (believable) alteration to the Zapruder film. Based on my understanding, the WC did NOT screen the film frame-by-frame. The primary and ONLY viewing audience of the Zapruder was the Warren Commission and staff members! In my estimation, based on my film-video compositing experience 10-14 days to do the job.
Closing, the Zapruder film as seen by the Warren Commission late Feb '64, was to never see the light of day, as a motion FILM after that screening. Specifically, laced up in a projector and projected onto a film screen--ANYWHERE, ANYTIME. The alleged Zapruder film currently housed at NARA (National Archives) screened by the Warren Commission, hasn't!
YouTube has the 2003 Great Zapruder Film HOAX Univ. of Minn. film symposium. I presented covering this "was it possible..." subject matter during that symposium. Fellow presenters were Dr. David Mantick, Dr. John Costella, Dr. Jim Fetzer, David Lifton and Jack White. ALL Z-film symposium presentations are located on YouTUBE.
My original presentation was posted to Rich DellaRosa's forum in 1997, I'm not sure (I doubt) if that written presentation carried over to this site (under: DellaRosa archive).
A great big thanks to you DH... your work was in part the impetus for my staying with the Zfilm subject.
Jeff Carter Wrote:I would like to contribute to a Zapruder film thread, but I'm not sure the one suggested above is the appropriate one.
Jeff - take a look at the various Zapruder threads in the JFK assassination directory and see if any of fits.
I linked to a good thread in post 34 above, but you may find another one more appopriate.
"It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted...."
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War." Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon
"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta." The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war
21-08-2013, 10:58 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2013, 11:19 PM by Tracy Riddle.)
David H, according to my research, the Z-film was viewed 1/27/1964 by WC staffers, FBI and SS agents.
On 2/25/1964, Herbert Orth, Assistant Chief of Life's photographic lab, brought the original Zapruder film to the WC for viewing, but refused to stop to view individual frames out of fear of causing burn damage.
On 4/14/1964 the autopsy doctors and government ballistics experts viewed the film.
Then on 4/21/1964 the film was viewed again by some Parkland doctors, Dr. Joseph R. Dolce and Dr. Frederick W. Light Jr, Dr. Alfred G. Olivier, several FBI agents, and several WC staffers. I think Connally viewed it around this time as well.
Then in May (I think) a 21-minute film Assassination of President John F. Kennedy was produced by the SS, narrated by Jim Underwood and directed by John Joe Howlett and Talmadge Bailey. It was photographed by Eddie Barker, Jim Underwood, Henk Dewit, and KRLD-TV. It features the unedited Zapruder film (in B&W), and was probably only shown in government circles. But it's now on Youtube.
It's true that we don't have an official chain of possession, but there are a couple of good chronologies on the film's whereabouts that I've seen.
