Carcano clip how many bullets has to be in a clip for it to fire

[Alan Denholm]

I was listening to this youtube clip from Gerry Hemming on the Carcano rifle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4OEbADUESo

in there he says that to function correctly the Carcano clip must hold 6 bullets.
I looked at various YouTube clips of people firing the Carcano (all trying to prove
what a wonderful weapon it is) and they all fill the clip with 6 bullets, without fail.
So the 64K dollar (pounds in my case) question is if Oswald's rifle only had 4 bullets ,
one still in the rifle , and 2 or 3 cases expelled , what happened to the
other 2 or 3 bullets that should have been in the clip.
Does anyone have a Carcano and can it fire with 4 bullets only in the clip.
If not would Oswald wander through the streets of Dallas with a rifle with a bullet in the breach
if he had fired the other two as practice shots, as an ex marine he would be trained
and it would be second nature to carry an empty rifle in a non combat location.

Any comments would be welcomed.

[Drew Phipps]

The clip must have one bullet in it to remain in the gun, or it will fall out the bottom. The gun will shoot without a clip, and can be breech-loaded by hand one round at a time.

One would assume that the clip would not be inserted into the gun while the rest of the gun was disassembled.

[Bob Mady]

The clip must have one bullet in it to remain in the gun, or it will fall out the bottom. The gun will shoot without a clip, and can be breech-loaded by hand one round at a time.

One would assume that the clip would not be inserted into the gun while the rest of the gun was disassembled.

I read that the clip must have six shells in it or a full clip in order to be placed into the rifle, in other words a clip with five rounds will not load properly.
I do not know if this is true. But if it is true, this means someone fully loaded the rifle, took two or three shots then packed the gun away that was loaded and that it was carried into the TSBD with three or four shells already loaded.

Also if the only remaining shell was chambered, I agree the clip should have dropped out of the rifle.

[Drew Phipps]

Apparently, the FBI's weapon testers for the Warren Commission, including Robert Frazier, claim to have loaded 4 cartridges in the clip, inserted it into the gun, and then worked the mechanism three times, to simulate the reported condition of the gun when it was located. If true, this would be proof that the clip on this particular recovered weapon did not require six shells to be used.

Frazier, in his testimony WC V III pag 398, says that the clip can be used with 1,2,3,4,5, or 6 rounds.

However, I do not mean to imply that Frazier, or the FBI, or the Warren Commission, should be considered credible. I am merely repeating what they reported.

[Bob Mady]

Apparently, the FBI's weapon testers for the Warren Commission, including Robert Frazier, claim to have loaded 4 cartridges in the clip, inserted it into the gun, and then worked the mechanism three times, to simulate the reported condition of the gun when it was located. If true, this would be proof that the clip on this particular recovered weapon did not require six shells to be used.

Frazier, in his testimony WC V III pag 398, says that the clip can be used with 1,2,3,4,5, or 6 rounds.

However, I do not mean to imply that Frazier, or the FBI, or the Warren Commission, should be considered credible. I am merely repeating what they reported.

There seems to be those that have purchased and fired a MC model similar to the one proposed to have been used in the assassination, speaking to those, how many shells need to be in a clip to load a MC?

As I claimed before Drew, I have no first hand knowledge of this weapon, but have not been able to get a firm definition on the possibility of loading a short clip. It may be possible.

[Alan Denholm]

It's taken me 3 days searching but I managed to find this clip (excuse the bad language in the clip)

http://www.videorockzone.com/video/watch...-less.html

He manages to load and eject 1, and 4 and 6 bullets.

So I suppose LHO could have theoretically used his last 4 bullets and made the gun fire 3 of them but the clip would have fallen
out when the last bullet was chambered( around 6:15 in the video). So why would the clip not be found with the shell casings. An interesting finding
although not what I was looking for.

[Bob Mady]

It's taken me 3 days searching but I managed to find this clip (excuse the bad language in the clip)

http://www.videorockzone.com/video/watch...-less.html

He manages to load and eject 1, and 4 and 6 bullets.

So I suppose LHO could have theoretically used his last 4 bullets and made the gun fire 3 of them but the clip would have fallen
out when the last bullet was chambered( around 6:15 in the video). So why would the clip not be found with the shell casings. An interesting finding
although not what I was looking for.

Alan, good find, it answers the question of loading a short clip, can be done overcoming slight problem of loose shells.
The clip should have fallen out when the last round was chambered, I believe the WC solved this by saying the clip was bent and stuck.

Thanks for the video evidence
Bob

[Gordon Gray]

It's taken me 3 days searching but I managed to find this clip (excuse the bad language in the clip)

http://www.videorockzone.com/video/watch...-less.html

He manages to load and eject 1, and 4 and 6 bullets.

So I suppose LHO could have theoretically used his last 4 bullets and made the gun fire 3 of them but the clip would have fallen
out when the last bullet was chambered( around 6:15 in the video). So why would the clip not be found with the shell casings. An interesting finding
although not what I was looking for.

Alan, good find, it answers the question of loading a short clip, can be done overcoming slight problem of loose shells.
The clip should have fallen out when the last round was chambered, I believe the WC solved this by saying the clip was bent and stuck.

Thanks for the video evidence
Bob

This is of course baloney, for if the clip was bent the gun would have misfired.

[Alan Denholm]

Gordon Gray

Agree with your comment found a photo of the CE575-5 at Mary Ferrell

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/1...E575-5.jpg

The clip does not look to deformed to me. However going back to the original video
I watched it again a couple of times and every time irrespective of the number of bullets
in the clip as the last round is chambered the clip leaves the rifle , in fact it almost looks
to my eyes as if it is ejected with force from the mechanism rather than dropping as by gravity. In which case
why was the clip not with the bullet cases on the floor. The clip is not visible after it is inserted into the
rifle and only becomes visible again after it leaves the rifle.

Small second thought on the issue , how would Oswald know the rifle would work with the 4 bullets he
allegedly brought with him that day. As an ex-marine I would assume his instincts after his basic training
would be to fill the clip and never to part fill it.

[Bob Mady]

Gordon Gray

Agree with your comment found a photo of the CE575-5 at Mary Ferrell

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/1...E575-5.jpg

The clip does not look to deformed to me. However going back to the original video
I watched it again a couple of times and every time irrespective of the number of bullets
in the clip as the last round is chambered the clip leaves the rifle , in fact it almost looks
to my eyes as if it is ejected with force from the mechanism rather than dropping as by gravity. In which case
why was the clip not with the bullet cases on the floor. The clip is not visible after it is inserted into the
rifle and only becomes visible again after it leaves the rifle.

Small second thought on the issue , how would Oswald know the rifle would work with the 4 bullets he
allegedly brought with him that day. As an ex-marine I would assume his instincts after his basic training
would be to fill the clip and never to part fill it.

Agree, the clip should have ejected, just another coincidence within the lies.

Another interesting tangent to think about is why did the conspirators choose to plant a rifle with only 1 shell, already chambered?

Here is a potential answer, they didn't know how many shots it would take to make sure KENNEDY was dead, they could have fired two more times for a total of five rifle shots, they left one in the chamber, that leaves as many as 5 shells that could have been dropped on the floor. Since only three rifle shots were used, three shells were dropped on the floor and then found, two became non-existent and remained in the pocket of the person who planted the empty shells by the window, hence the mystery as to why a weapon was brought to a gunfight that was not fully loaded.