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New History Channel Series "Hunting Hitler"
#1
On Nov. 10, 2015, at 10:00 EST and again at 11:00 EST, the History Channel will be airing a new series, "Hunting Hitler." The premise of the show appears to be that Hitler faked his own death and escaped to Argentina. Now, this show is written by an ex-CIA guy, and uses declassified FBI documents, and its being shown by the History Channel, so you might want to take it with a grain or two of salt.

However, to my mind, the end of WW2 is the beginning of so many secrets and conspiracy themes (not in any particular order: OSS/CIA, Dulles brothers, Gehlen, Black Eagle Trust, Operation Paperclip, Operation Gladio, Die Glocke, etc.) that the show might be worth a watch, if only to see what truths it may inadvertently reveal.
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)

James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."

Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."

Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
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#2
Hunting History - the Hitler Channel, right.

Having watched some of these type of programmes before, my sense is that they are usually used to stamp on and denigrate any arguments that don't fit with established perceptions. Factual documentaries used to be the way to get new facts about important stories into the public domain, but they have all been closed or converted to rubbishy propaganda outlets so far as I can see.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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#3
The History Channel used to be fairly decent back in the 1990s, but it's crap now.
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#4
Tracy Riddle Wrote:The History Channel used to be fairly decent back in the 1990s, but it's crap now.

Back in the 1990's factual documentaries on TV were still doing fairly good work. But they're all pants these days - and either scared or prohibited from touching sensitive subjects.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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#5
Well, this business about Hitler faking his own death, it's really out there, and its not even a current topic of conversation. Is the show simply going to portray this idea so poorly, that by association, all other conspiracy theories are discredited?

If you think that, I'd refer you to the recent 2 hour History special on Escaping Alcatraz, where, contrary to the official version of events, compelling evidence was fairly portrayed that three guys did successfully escape Alcatraz (and might have fled to Brazil to become "farmers," associated with a drug runner contemporary of Barry Seal). There was also the Roanoke Special, which used scientific evidence to demonstrate the validity of the original "Dare Stone" (I'm not going to explain all that.)

Of course neither of these alternate theories seem threatening to the Powers That Be. Maybe the History Channel is turning a new leaf, or maybe simply burnishing their "street cred"?
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)

James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."

Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."

Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
Reply
#6
Drew Phipps Wrote:Well, this business about Hitler faking his own death, it's really out there, and its not even a current topic of conversation. Is the show simply going to portray this idea so poorly, that by association, all other conspiracy theories are discredited?

If you think that, I'd refer you to the recent 2 hour History special on Escaping Alcatraz, where, contrary to the official version of events, compelling evidence was fairly portrayed that three guys did successfully escape Alcatraz (and might have fled to Brazil to become "farmers," associated with a drug runner contemporary of Barry Seal). There was also the Roanoke Special, which used scientific evidence to demonstrate the validity of the original "Dare Stone" (I'm not going to explain all that.)

Of course neither of these alternate theories seem threatening to the Powers That Be. Maybe the History Channel is turning a new leaf, or maybe simply burnishing their "street cred"?

Well, let's watch it and see. If they really want to polish their street credibility then they shouldn't have an awful lot of difficulty showing the likelihood - even the fact - that he did, indeed, escape. As did Bormann and probably Himmler also - if Hugh Thomas's book is anything to go by, and a more careful man about his facts is hard to find.

On Hitler the skull that was discovered to be his and paraded by the media turned out to be that of a female. I know Hitler only had one testicle but that's ridiculous. Add to that that Stalin never believed died in Berlin and did, in fact, escape, and considered that the US was aware of that, then you have a case to answer. No body, no death. And if you then follow the trail of evidence to Argentina, where his survival and location was an open secret and commented upon by numerous eye-witnesses, then altogether this makes a pretty convincing assembly of evidence.

What we do know now about WWII is that a vast number of lies have been told by the victors. Who would have thunk back in the late Forties and early Fifties that hordes of former SS killers were recruited by the US to fight for them in the cold war - while the very worst Nazis were helped to escape justice by the US/Vatican run Ratlines.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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#7
Anyone watched this yet? The first episode was broadcast last night.

I can only find one review in Variety and the writer seems to me to be using every trick in the book to pour scorn on it, the makers, producers, the former CIA guy who features and the History Channel itself - which from my cynical perspective sounds good news that the programme may be fairly revelatory and therefore, subject to a vicious load of horseshit and hatchet job journalism.

Here's the review.

Quote:

TV Review: Hunting Hitler'

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[Image: hitlerpic2.jpg?w=670&h=377&crop=1]
HISTORY
NOVEMBER 5, 2015 | 08:00AM PT[Image: lowry-brian-web.jpg?resize=70%2C94]

Brian Lowry

TV Columnist@blowryontv
In politics, there's an unwritten rule that whoever first evokes Hitler should lose the argument. The same really ought to apply to television, as the channel still known as History for reasons that remain increasingly elusive and hard to justify trots out "Hunting Hitler," an eight-part series devoted to newly released documents that supposedly raise possibilities the Nazi leader escaped Germany, as opposed to dying in a bunker. Seriously, guys, what's next, "Hitlernado?"
The series is derived from 700 pages of FBI material, declassified in 2014, indicating that the bureau continued to probe the question of whether Adolf Hitler might have actually survived World War II, fleeing to Argentina. And obviously, that's a tantalizing line of inquiry, having spurred conspiracy theories for decades.
"Hunting Hitler," however, proceeds to trivialize the topic by treating it like any other reality show TNT's "Cold Justice," only with the mother of all 70-year-old cold cases, one that incidentally involves a perpetrator of mass genocide.
[B]REVIEW:The World Wars'[/B]
Seeking a patina of respectability, the producers enlist CIA veteran Bob Baer, who provided the basis for the movie "Syriana," and still seems to be dining out on the fact that George Clooney played him. At least Baer sounds relatively sober, insisting he has no agenda except to "For once and all, settle this damn thing."
After that, though, "Hunting Hitler" becomes just another silly reality show, with a crack team of investigators that almost instantly flits off to Argentina, chasing down leads that, in the first hour, add up to a whole lot of nothing. In fact, if viewers were to take a shot of alcohol every time someone uses a phrase like, "There could have been … " or, "There's a chance that Hitler might have come here … " or, "If there was in fact a bunker …," they would be plastered by the second or third commercial break.
[B]REVIEW:Texas Rising'[/B]
Desperate to create a sense of suspense, the team keeps talking to Argentinians who look at them like they're crazy, while employing high-tech gizmos like "ground-penetrating radar" intended to unearth evidence of a secret bunker that might as well be Monty Python's machine that goes "bing." There are also plenty of references to the search for Osama bin Laden, which really isn't directly analogous to what's transpiring here.
Baer keeps reminding the audience how deadly serious this all is, saying at one point, "It's not a movie. This is a real investigation." Perhaps so, but it's dressed up in a manner that makes it hard to distinguish from any number of series on channels like A&E or Investigation Discovery, while cynically trading off Hitler's name, which harbors enough interest to potentially make this a ratings success. (History notes that the program will air in more than 180 countries.)
In more pragmatic terms, based on the opener, it's simply hard to imagine how the producers can possibly wring another seven hours out of this hunt. Because while the teased moments will include a future episode that involves diving for evidence of a U-boat that could have ferried Nazis out of Germany, "Hunting Hitler" begins taking on water long before that.





From Variety.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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#8
It isn't totally unbelievable that Hitler and Eva faked their deaths and escaped to South America. A lot of things we've been told about WWII have turned out to be lies and myths.
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#9
I saw it. Frankly, I was a bit underwhelmed. They look like a bunch of serious guys: a Nazi hunter, some Special Forces guys (I think one of them was the "I shot Bin Laden" guy), a couple historian/researchers. But they didn't really give any worthwhile background. Some magical software thingy sieves through 700 pages of declassified FBI "Hitler sightings" docs and out pops a location, so they go there.

The baffled locals deny there are/were Nazis around, and the investigators conclude "they are still too scared to talk after 70 years." (I was kinda thinking that verb tenses are the first thing that gets lost in English/Spanish translations.) They found a school with a Nazi Eagle painted on it, and a Nazi former administrator; so this 80 old guy talks in Spanish about being forced to march around...but he uses the words, "eins, zwei, drei..." so it is apparent that he actually heard a German guy marching people around the school. (That was actually the high point of the show for me, but the investigation team didn't make any apparent note of that.)

They found a small concrete underground "bunker" (or "root cellar", depending on who's describing it), that may, or may not, be a common feature of Argentinian rural architecture. Previews indicate finds of larger structures, scuba diving for planes or subs, etc. It has been known for 70 years that many ex-Nazis did, in fact, take root in Argentina after the war. And the show has indeed proven that the FBI kept an open file on Hitler sightings. However, there was not a shred of anything specific to Hitler (beside the aforementioned FBI documents) in the footage.

I'm going to follow it for a while longer. Perhaps future shows will flesh out any more official or unofficial "Doubting Thomases" about the death (chief among whom appears to be Stalin himself, that bulwark of bourgeoisie credibility), and past fact-finding efforts by anyone more reputable.
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)

James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."

Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."

Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
Reply
#10
Drew Phipps Wrote:I saw it. Frankly, I was a bit underwhelmed. They look like a bunch of serious guys: a Nazi hunter, some Special Forces guys (I think one of them was the "I shot Bin Laden" guy), a couple historian/researchers. But they didn't really give any worthwhile background. Some magical software thingy sieves through 700 pages of declassified FBI "Hitler sightings" docs and out pops a location, so they go there.

The baffled locals deny there are/were Nazis around, and the investigators conclude "they are still too scared to talk after 70 years." (I was kinda thinking that verb tenses are the first thing that gets lost in English/Spanish translations.) They found a school with a Nazi Eagle painted on it, and a Nazi former administrator; so this 80 old guy talks in Spanish about being forced to march around...but he uses the words, "eins, zwei, drei..." so it is apparent that he actually heard a German guy marching people around the school. (That was actually the high point of the show for me, but the investigation team didn't make any apparent note of that.)

They found a small concrete underground "bunker" (or "root cellar", depending on who's describing it), that may, or may not, be a common feature of Argentinian rural architecture. Previews indicate finds of larger structures, scuba diving for planes or subs, etc. It has been known for 70 years that many ex-Nazis did, in fact, take root in Argentina after the war. And the show has indeed proven that the FBI kept an open file on Hitler sightings. However, there was not a shred of anything specific to Hitler (beside the aforementioned FBI documents) in the footage.

I'm going to follow it for a while longer. Perhaps future shows will flesh out any more official or unofficial "Doubting Thomases" about the death (chief among whom appears to be Stalin himself, that bulwark of bourgeoisie credibility), and past fact-finding efforts by anyone more reputable.

Now that Hitler's alleged skull is that of a woman, it is anybody's guess. Yah, he might have made it out. There are a lot of weird things post-WWII. One of them of course was the expedition to Antarctica that went wrong.

But having said this, the show has all the makings of the Ghost hunter shows that are out now. They are a big tease designed to rope in the bored viewer. "Do you think that was a ghost?" " I don't know man, but I've got the chills like never before and my leg sure hurts." "Yah, and look at the readings on that ultra red plasma energy censor. Off the charts!!"
"We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

"We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl
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