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Hitler's skull? It's female...
#1
Quote:Tests on skull fragment cast doubt on Adolf Hitler suicide story

Bone with bullet hole found by Russians in 1946 came from an unknown woman, not the German leader

Uki Goñi The Observer, Sunday 27 September 2009

In countless biographies of Adolf Hitler the story of his final hours is recounted in the traditional version: committing suicide with Eva Braun, he took a cyanide pill and then shot himself on 30 April 1945, as the Russians bombarded Berlin.

Some historians expressed doubt that the Führer had shot himself, speculating that accounts of Hitler's death had been embellished to present his suicide in a suitably heroic light. But a fragment of skull, complete with bullet hole, which was taken from the bunker by the Russians and displayed in Moscow in 2000, appeared to settle the argument.

Until now. In the wake of new revelations, the histories of Hitler's death may need to be rewritten – and left open-ended. American researchers claim to have demonstrated that the skull fragment, secretly preserved for decades by Soviet intelligence, belonged to a woman under 40, whose identity is unknown. DNA analyses performed on the bone, now held by the Russian State Archive in Moscow, have been processed at the genetics lab of the University of Connecticut. The results, broadcast in the US by a History Channel documentary, Hitler's Escape, astonished scientists.

According to Connecticut archaeologist and bone specialist Nick Bellantoni, it was clear from the outset that something was amiss. "The bone seemed very thin; male bone tends to be more robust," he said. "And the sutures where the skull plates come together seemed to correspond to someone under 40." In April 1945 Hitler turned 56.

Bellantoni had flown to Moscow to inspect the gruesome Hitler trophies at the State Archive, which included the skull fragment as well as bloodstains from the bunker sofa on which Hitler and Braun were believed to have committed suicide. He was allowed only one hour with the Hitler trove, during which time he applied cotton swabs and took DNA samples. "I had the reference photos the Soviets took of the sofa in 1945 and I was seeing the exact same stains on the fragments of wood and fabric in front of me, so I knew I was working with the real thing."

The samples were then flown back to Connecticut. At the university's centre for applied genetics, Linda Strausbaugh closed her lab for three days to work exclusively on the Hitler project. "We used the same routines and controls that would have been used in a crime lab," she said. To her surprise, a small amount of viable DNA was extracted. She then replicated this through a process known as molecular copying to provide enough material for analysis. "We were very lucky to get a reading, despite the limited amount of genetic information," she said.

The result was extraordinary. According to witnesses, the bodies of Hitler and Braun had been wrapped in blankets and carried to the garden just outside the Berlin bunker, placed in a bomb crater, doused with petrol and set ablaze.

But the skull fragment the Russians dug up outside the Führerbunker in 1946 could never have belonged to Hitler. The skull DNA was incontestably female. The only positive physical proof that Hitler had shot himself had suddenly been rendered worthless. The result is a mystery reopened and, for conspiracy theorists the tantalising possibility that Hitler did not die in the bunker.

For decades after the war the fate of Hitler's corpse was shrouded in secrecy. No picture or film was made public. As the Soviet Army secured control of Berlin in May 1945, Russian forensic specialists under the command of the counterintelligence unit Smersh (an acronym for "Death to Spies") dug up what was presumed to be the dictator's body outside the bunker and performed a post-mortem examination behind closed doors. A part of the skull was absent, presumably blown away by Hitler's suicide shot, but what remained of his jaw coincided with his dental records, a fact reportedly confirmed when the Russians showed his surviving dental work to the captured assistants of Hitler's dentist. The autopsy also reported that Hitler, as had been rumoured, had only one testicle.

But Stalin remained suspicious. In 1946 a second secret mission was dispatched to Berlin. In the same crater from which Hitler's body had been recovered, the new team found what it believed was the missing skull fragment with a bullet exit wound through it. The Russians also took fragments of Hitler's bloodstained sofa.

Even this failed to satisfy Stalin, who clamped a secrecy order on all matters related to Hitler's death. Unknown to the world, Hitler's corpse was interred at a Smersh centre in Magdeburg, East Germany. There it remained long after Stalin's death in 1953. Finally, in 1970, the KGB dug up the corpse, cremated it and secretly scattered the ashes in a river. Only the jawbone, the skull fragment and the bloodstained sofa segments were preserved in the deep archives of Soviet intelligence. The bunker was destroyed in 1947 and eventually paved over. Then, in 2000, the Russian State Archive in Moscow staged an exhibition, The Agony of the Third Reich. The skull fragment was displayed, but only photographs of Hitler's jawbone were on view. The head of the archive, Sergei Mironenko, said he had no doubt the skull fragment was authentic. "It is not just some bone we found in the street, but a fragment of a skull that was found in a hole where Hitler's body had been buried," he said.

In the wake of Bellantoni and Strausbaugh's findings, Mironenko's confidence was clearly misplaced. But could the fragment of skull belong to Eva Braun, who died at 33 and was laid alongside her beloved Führer in the same crater? "We know the skull corresponds to a woman between the ages of 20 and 40," said Bellantoni, but he is sceptical about the Braun thesis. "There is no report of Eva Braun having shot herself or having been shot afterwards. It could be anyone. Many people were killed around the bunker area."

Sixty-four years later, the world is still in the dark about what really happened in Hitler's bunker on 30 April 1945.


Uki Goñi is author of The Real Odessa (Granta), about the escape of Nazi war criminals from Europe

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep...l-fragment
"It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted...."
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War."

Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon

"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta."
The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war
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#2
These Connecticut doctors were able to tell just from looking at "Hitler's skull" that it was female.

There's no way that Soviet pathologists would not have realized this. Sixty-four long years ago.

Either somebody got the skulls mixed up. Which is possible, but pretty unlikely.

Or this is a decades-old cover up.

Cui bono?
"It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted...."
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War."

Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon

"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta."
The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war
Reply
#3
I am not sure about the following but it is interesting. It is known that Hitler employed a double. Certainly there are many places in South America which are German enclaves. Another case of living on after a supposed death is the case of the Tsar Nicholas and his wife and family. There were many eyewitness reports of them being moved around Russia by the Red Army to keep them from the Whites and to be used as a bargaining chip in their dealings with others. This was happening long after their supposed execution in Yekaterinburg. Up to two years after. Anthony Summers has covered some of this in his book 'Hunt for the Tsar'. So, things are not always as they are stated or appear to be.

Quote:"Soviet soldiers dug deep into the rubble of the Reich Chancellery for Hitler's corpse. "They did not find it," states the May 14, 1945 issue of TIME magazine.

Stalin announced to Truman during lunch in Potsdam on July 17, 1945, 78 days after his 'death', that Hitler had escaped.

The American FBI kept a file on Hitler, long after 1945.

The FBI investigated reports from newspaper articles and individuals claiming that Hitler was in Argentina.

Back in 1944, Hoover had been told by an informant that Hitler would receive refuge in Argentina.
A memo stated that Argentine's leaders planned to conduct secret meetings with Hitler "for the arranging of importing arms and technicians into Argentina."

The memo stated that a "large wealthy German colony in Argentina affords tremendous possibilities... as a refuge for Hitler.... Count Luxburg, has been mentioned as operating a ranch which would serve in providing a haven."

Just after the war ended, Otto Abetz, Germany's wartime ambassador to France, claimed that Hitler "is certainly not dead."

On 20th June 1948, El Tiempo, a newspaper published in Colombia, claimed that Hitler had escaped by submarine to South America.
and

Quote:Abel Basti, an Argentinian journalist, is the author of 'Bariloche Nazi'. Basti claims Hitler escaped to San Carlos de Bariloche, in Patagonia, in Argentina, and died in 1960.

According to Basti, Hitler reached South America by submarine on July 28, 1945.

The official story is that Hitler committed suicide in his bunker on April 30, 1945.

In 1978, Basti went to work as a forest ranger in Bariloche.
Basti was interested in the extradition to Italy of Nazi captain Erich Priebke in 1995.
Priebke was detained in Bariloche.

According to Basti, traces of Hitler's presence in southern Argentina gradually emerge.

Basti claims to have eyewitness accounts from qualified people who were with Hitler in Argentina.
Basti reports FBI, British Intelligence, and Argentinean Navy documents discussing the presence of Nazi subs in the South Atlantic in July and August 1945.

The first official reports, in 1945, talk of an escape.

When the Red Army entered the bunker, Stalin asked for confirmation of Hitler's death and the general in charge reportedly said that he could not give confirmation as there was no body.

According to Basti: "In 1950, two sailors from the Graf Spee, a German vessel sunk by its own crew on the River Plate, said that they received at least two submarines in Patagonia on July 28, 1945."

[Image: 727px-German_American_Bund_NYWTS.jpg] Fascists in the USA in 1939.


From this source, http://www.crystalinks.com/aldebaran.html, we learn more:

In his book, Basti reproduces documents, affidavits, photographs and blueprints concerning the sites that sheltered Hitler, Martin Bormann, Joseph Mengele and Adolf Eichmann.

Basti states that 'The only 'official' story is the report made by General Zhukov, commander of the Soviet armies that occupied Berlin. Zhukov reportedly stated that Hitler and several Nazi leaders had escaped, presumably to Spain or the Americas. "This is what Stalin advised the U.S. government," says Basti.

Basti's book has a photo of the Incalco Ranch, located in Villa la Angostura on the shores of Lago Nahuel Huapi, 80 kilometers (50 miles) north of Bariloche. This was where Hitler allegedly lived.
The ranch is hidden by a pine forest and can only be reached by boat or hydroplane.

The ranch belonged to one of the most trusted aides of Peron, who was president of Argentina from 1946 to 1955.

Basti refers to Peron's secretary Rudolph Fraude, son of a German millionaire. Fraude allegedly looked after former Nazis in Argentina, among them Eichmann, who was captured in 1960 outside Buenos Aires by Israeli commandos.

Basti claims that Hitler also lived at Hacienda San Ramon, 10 kilometers east of Bariloche, which belonged at the time to the German principality of Schaumberg-Lippe.

Basti emphasises the 'vital assistance' offered by Peron's government at the time 'to admit the Fuhrer's henchmen into that country.'
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl...entina.htm
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#4
Really interesting thread. I saw that report too, about the female skull, and meant to post it here but forgot. Good link too Maggie.

As far as who benefits--I would think any receiving government would benefit Jan just like the US gov't did via operation paperclip. All those nazi experiments and science...

And, of course, anyone who wanted twins. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...razil.html
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#5
More from Abel Basti: http://www.barilochenazi.com.ar/english/...uction.htm. This is translated by google, but the meaning is clear. Emphasis (bold and red) is mine.

"Introduction

Did Adolf Hitler and his wife Eva Braun actually fled from Europe? Have Hitler’s and his wife’s suicide been a great fraud? Has humanity been deceived for more than half a century? Did they escape with the help of the Allies? Did they both arrive in Argentina by submarine, where they lived for many years?

Hidden for more than seventy years, in the twenty-first century, and if confirmed officially, Hitler’s escape would be one of the most controversial topics of contemporary history due to the many implications as this secret escape took place under the noses of the world. To prove that this last minute salvage operation, performed so the leader of National Socialism would not die in the hands of the Communist Army, involves an effort from a group of freelance investigators from different countries. Especially because it must confront the pressure coming from the opposing official version, sustained by powerful international economic and political interests. The same exclusive circle of world power, who in 1945, already knew about the fake suicide of the Nazi leader and his wife

The spectacular phenomenon of globalization of information has produced various changes in the last years. This situation was very different during WWII, when it was undoubtedly thought that the Allies, led by the United States, represented the freedom, fought for human rights, moral and positive values of humankind. On the other hand, Adolf Hitler represented evil and embodied the devil himself with his ideology that by all means had to be destructed. This classification, black and white without any shades of grey in between, was the one transmitted and accepted throughout the world. The most destructive conflict in the history of mankind, which generated millions of loses and destruction throughout, developed under these concepts. However, recent events, taking place at the end of the 20th and beginning of 21st centuries, informed on the global information net, allow us to see that this called “truth” about WWII could have been very different in fact. That is, evil was a characteristic that spread its tentacles to the Allies.

Nowadays this is a reality in the international world, one that can be known by the news coming from events happening everywhere. The Iraq conflict brought us both sides, the North American version and the ones transmitted by networks not allied to the American government.

When, for example the world could watch the bombing of Iraqi civilians, events which are generally called collateral damage, or the tortures which Iraqi war prisoners were submitted to by the United States Army, many realized that John Wayne had died, that not always are the bad ones on the other side, and that the United States government, as well as very powerful multinational companies, create wars, by killing, either using weapons or generating extreme poverty, causing an unbalance between nations. Adding the fact that in different nations, leaders are helped to seize power, who not only are despotic but act unlawfully and do not represent their country’s interests whatsoever.

This is not new. Similar situations used to happen, but the big difference is that the world has access to more information, coming from different sources and enlarging the amount, plentiful to form our own opinion.

Years ago the reality was completely different, especially during WWII, when the truth was bent and the lack of sources of information, contrary to what happens nowadays, kept certain situations in the hiding, which half a century later are being brought to light. It is important to know that Hitler came to power as a great admirer of the racist politics of the United States, and urging the Germans to imitate, in this sense the North Americans. During the 20’s, while supporting the Nazi ideology Hitler used to say “By banning the entrance of immigrants affected by infectious-contagious diseases and not allowing certain ethnic races to become citizens, the United States of America partly accept one of the principles that fundaments the racial conception of a National Socialist State.”
While Hitler was in power, before and during the war, he received permanent support from some extreme right-wing sectors from the USA and England. This is a key factor to understand the facts that are told in this work, the bond between Nazis and Anglo-North Americans was stronger of what is actually known.

Every day we have access to new data and evidence that compromises well-known politicians, businessmen and militaries of the world’s most powerful nation.

The world today helps us to understand a different non-official version of history. Upon which this book represents only a small contribution to make the truth known. Had Hitler escaped in 1945, being his fake suicide a fundamental piece, it is unthinkable that this should have happened without the United States support and from very powerful ideological sectors related to the Fuhrer, no matter the country in which the followers of the Nazi regimen were.

This statement, that strikes at the beginning and causes astonishment but rarely causes any indifference, has a logical explanation in the international context registered at the end of WWII.

It was the Russians; that is, the Communist Army, the ones that took Berlin over and headed towards the Bunker were 56-year old Hitler fought against the events, and that by that time, as he clearly knew, were irreversible.

It was the Soviets who could trespass the city’s defenses and finally entered the impenetrable shelter in Berlin to arrest Hitler. At this point of the events, the Nazis had known they were losing the war for a couple of years and given the facts, had prepared an escape plan, the Fuhrer, the great enemy who had seemed invincible at the beginning, had been defeated. But yet he was useful to fight against communism in Europe. This fact was known by the Allies, and Hitler’s assassination would have represented a great loss, if not the biggest loss that could happen of anticommunist leader for a future war against the Soviets. Consequently, the United States, and especially the Anglo-North American right-winged interests, were determined to save Hitler.

A small part of the most important Nazi generals had to be sacrificed, who were trialed and condemned by the Nuremberg Court, but not the ‘Number One’. In this same situation was his wife, Eva Braun, as well as some hierarchs who were never captured.

This explains why Hitler was evacuated, the original plan was conceived by the Nazis, however, it was implemented once Berlin received the green light from Washington.

Hitler and his wife were to be taken to a far away, safe place in the world. That destination was the Patagonia.

When the Soviet officials entered the Bunker, Russian leader, Joseph Stalin immediately asked for a report on the whereabouts of the President of Germany. The first news he received from his generals was definite: the most wanted man had escaped. Stalin informed the United States in the exact same words. This striking piece of first-hand information is even more shocking when the Soviets state that Hitler had fled in a submarine, bound for Spain or Argentina. Everything stated here has been documented, it was even published by newspapers of that time, and whoever wants to question Hitler’s escape must first of all know the facts about the official history, hidden too by official misinformation.

It is clear that at the time, with Stalin’s army in Germany and in many other parts of Europe, that a new world reality was being born, one that led a to rising tension between the Allies and Moscow. To put it into few words, it was capitalism against atheistic communism.

The Nazis rejected Carl Marx’s ideology and differently from the left-winged ideology, allowed the existence of capital and private enterprises. The German economy had a strong state control, but permitted private companies as well as private property. That is why the Third Reich’s ideas were closer to Washington than to Moscow.

Hitler’s salvaged means a triumph over the threatening “red danger”, committed to take over other counties from around the world. He was a guarantee, a precaution. A way of making sure that by keeping him alive he could be useful in the near future. At that time the future that laid ahead was bleak, a WWIII. Russian had to be defeated and had to be sent to Eastern Europe by all possible means. This conflict could have started a few months after the end of WWII. This was already in the plans of the Allies forces. Who could command this combat in Europe against the Soviets?, Who with a single speech could mobilize the entire German Army? Who could make hordes of people rise against Moscow?

Without any doubt the perfect man for this ‘crusade’ was Hitler. And the best ideologically trained army to fight communism was the Nazi.

When Berlin surrenders, on May 8th, 1945, the strategists were looking into the future, the organization of the world, the next conflict at the door, with all that it meant. This explanation about the ‘obligation’ to save Hitler, could not have been understood a few years ago, when the occidental world believed that there was a good side and a bad one. The former led by the USA and grouping countries as well as enterprises and political sectors sharing the same interests, and “good intentions”. The latter were the Nazis. If that would have been the case, Hitler would have had no escape… Yet, nowadays, the truth is unveiled: the good side is not so good after all. It is now known that the cause of the great problems in the world today is originated by strong economical interests, who create and destroy countries, generate wars and kill millions of innocent people.

Maybe it is now, with this completely different panorama, with access to modern communication circuits, that Hitler’s escape is believable and comprehensible. At least it is a debatable topic and not the mere truth imposed by the ones in power who would benefit from it.
It is possible that the ones who criticize this new overlook of the events could do so from a perspective that enlarges the topic, because one thing is for certain, only by confronting ideas does the truth arise, and each day that goes by everything seems to point that this truth is very different from the one we were told."
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#6
Myra Bronstein Wrote:...Everything stated here has been documented, it was even published by newspapers of that time,
...

Sure would like to see these newspapers.
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#7
According to Abel Basti's website this is a May 8, 1945 BBC audio file describing the body of "Hitler" as a bad double.

http://www.barilochenazi.com.ar/Video/bbc_080545.mp3
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#8
Myra Bronstein Wrote:...
Sure would like to see these newspapers.

Abel Basti presents this documentation on his site: http://www.translate.google.com/translat...ry_state0=

The google translation of the newspaper article he shows is as follows:

"He did not appear even the corpse of the Fuhrer

In the Foreign Ministry on the Wilhelmstrasse were found dead bodies of many members of staff Nazi leaders of the Nazi assault troops and a reputation, but not Hitler.

Consequently, the question that prevails in allied sources about the death of Hitler and Goebbels and confirmation takes this in the belief that both leaders live at some point in Germany."

On edit: The article shows no date. The website says the article is dated May 6, 1945.

Hitler supposedly committed suicide on April 30, 1945.
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#9
More "documentation" from Abel Basti's site: http://www.barilochenazi.com.ar/articulo...sticos.htm

This is the google translation (possibly with errors introduced by my bad typing) of a Spanish article the website labels as June 9, 1945:

"Nothing concrete is known about Adolf Hitler

Berlin, June 9 (UP) - After its nearly six weeks of the Occupation of Berlin, Hitler's death remains a deep mystery, as declared by Marshal Zhukov allies correspondents stationed in Moscow for the first time visiting the German capital.

"We have found no corpse that could be definitely identified as that of Hitler - Marshal Zhukov manifesto - and therefore we can not make any statement about his death. Until last minute could have escaped from Germany in an airplane. Nor do we know what was Hitler's deputy, Martin Bormann, who remained in Berlin until the end. "

The Bezarin general, military commander of Berlin, which previously received foreign correspondents also said the Russians had not been able to unravel the mystery surrounding Hitler and suggested that "perhaps is hidden somewhere in Europe, probably in Spain".

He said "several dead bodies were found, either of which could be Hitler, but has not been possible to establish anything concrete."

For the rest, the ruins of the Chancellery, which were visited by reporters, did not offer any post related to that dramatic moment of the agony of the Third Reich. The story is still littered with private documents, files and thousands of iron crosses and silver. Examined the lobby correspondents and offices of Hitler's collaborators, and also Hitler's desk, also active in collecting various items as souvenirs of their sight. There in the room a huge crystal chandelier that has remained miraculously intact, and the crumbling walls hundreds of Russian fighters and others have affixed their names and their hometowns.

The population of Berlin is as disoriented as the Russians with regard to the mystery of Hitler. The Germans argue that most versions of suicide came from the British vhf, even before the fall of Berlin. Bezarin General said in his conversation with the correspondents, many of the inhabitants of Berlin regularly listened to the BBC transmissions during the war, but none of them would dare to admit."
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#10
Abel Basti's site (http://www.barilochenazi.com.ar/documentos_secretos.htm) (http://www.hitlerargentina.com.ar/window/images/fbi1.jpg) displays this "FBI" memo (attached).


Attached Files
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