Hitler's skull? It's female...

[Helen Reyes]

There are many discrepancies with the supposed remains of the body. It was also claimed to be shorter than Hitler by several centimeters. It would be good to know more.

Matching Hitler's DNA could be difficult. His relatives in New Jersey changed their surname (see 50 Things by Russ Kick attached). I believe his brother the barkeep died without issue.

Stalin let the US know he thought they were giving haven to Hitler soon after Berlin fell. Soviets found a Hitler look-alike dead near the Hitlerbunker. What is posted above about their not finding a body is what I've read in other sources. There is another layer to the musical bodies game with Adolf and Eva involving a US/Soviet double agent who claims he had Hitler's body buried under a house in East Berlin in a chest. He claims he flushed it after relocating it in the 1970s-80s on orders from Moscow. This appears to be a lie but was featured on one of those History/Discovery/National Geographic Channel exposes.

Besides Argentina, there's a photo floating around the internet of Hitler in Venezuela or Colombia in the 50s or 60s. It's not a dead-ringer for him but it could be. He's sitting in a bus station on a bench, it's b&w and autographed. There might be a peasant beside him. There's another rumor that's intriguing about Hitler and the old Third Reich leadership celebrating his birthday at a lodge in Montana in the recent past; maybe it was in Glacier National Park, I forget.

scribd.com has a pdf that is a semi-scholarly debunking of Neu Schwabenland and the alleged war with the American troops there in the mid-50s. A lot of energy has also gone into debunking the idea that Hitler arrived in Argentina aboard a certain special cargo u-boat, either along with a bunch of gold or as part of the gold convoy (which is presumably what Russbacher is talking about when he mentions the Nazi gold in safekeeping with the Marcoses in the Phillippines). There is also some talk of a literary nature about the US receiving a shipment of uranium from the Third Reich via u-boat to make up for their deficit. They split their stocks into efforts to breed plutonium and enruich uranium, and didn't have enough to build the number of bombs needed for Truman on time, the story goes. Nazi supplies came to the rescue. Sceptics claim the Nazis didn't have enough uranium to be of any use. Actually they controlled all the pitch-blend from Bohemia. Supposedly the US got the good to be able to do the tests at Port Chicago and Trinity and have enough left over to bomb Japan, and the Germans got asylum.

This gets into the secret progress in building the bomb the Germans had made, and their UFO/saucer aerospace technology. In Black's IBM and the Holocaust you see Dulles in Switzerland running interference for US/Nazi corporate cooperation, Hamburg Ameriak is well-known, the Thyssen stuff. That is more verifiable, or more socially acceptable, than the claims the Nazis had nukes and saucers and secret Antarctic bases. At least one u-boat is documented as arriving in Argentina though, there are newspaper scans from the time on the internet. ODESSA might be a fake name but some such organization exists under some name, Werewolf Underground or Spider or whatever.

Here are some docs for basic reading. Douglas and Farrell are probably the important ones. Shirer is a good general ref on Nazi Germany. Farrell and Shirer are actually PDFs, you'll have to subract the .txt ending or add another .pdf ending for them to open in Windows as PDFs.

[Jan Klimkowski]

There is also some talk of a literary nature about the US receiving a shipment of uranium from the Third Reich via u-boat to make up for their deficit.

Helen - I would now categorize it as more than literary.

Joseph P Farrell has made an intriguing case for this hypothesis and more in the Reich of the Black Sun: Nazi Secret Weapons and the Cold War Allied Legend and SS Brotherhood of the Bell: The Nazi's Incredible Secret Technology.

[Helen Reyes]

There is also some talk of a literary nature about the US receiving a shipment of uranium from the Third Reich via u-boat to make up for their deficit.

Helen - I would now categorize it as more than literary.

Joseph P Farrell has made an intriguing case for this hypothesis and more in the Reich of the Black Sun: Nazi Secret Weapons and the Cold War Allied Legend and SS Brotherhood of the Bell: The Nazi's Incredible Secret Technology.

I mean there is talk in books rather than in the marketplace or on the streets. I read Farrell's book, was impressed by his arguments and actually posted it as an attached file above

[Jan Klimkowski]

There is also some talk of a literary nature about the US receiving a shipment of uranium from the Third Reich via u-boat to make up for their deficit.

Helen - I would now categorize it as more than literary.

Joseph P Farrell has made an intriguing case for this hypothesis and more in the Reich of the Black Sun: Nazi Secret Weapons and the Cold War Allied Legend and SS Brotherhood of the Bell: The Nazi's Incredible Secret Technology.

I mean there is talk in books rather than in the marketplace or on the streets. I read Farrell's book, was impressed by his arguments and actually posted it as an attached file above

Helen - thank you. You also attached a pdf of Linda Hunt's Secret Agenda, which I last saw in a library copy over a decade ago. Thank you for that too.

You are entirely correct to state that Farrell's work is not discussed on the streets. In fact, I'd go further and suggest that it's not discussed in "polite company" either.

With regard to Hitler, it's clear that there was neither a public execution, nor a startling resurrection. He disappeared from view, officially dead.

As I suggested at the beginning of this thread, I find it intriguing that the Russians have both chosen to display bones that they know any competent pathologist will immediately identify as most likely female, by sight alone, and then further allowed them to be examined by foreign scientists, even if only for a short time.

It's as if the Russians want to undermine the official version that Hitler died in Berlin.

Why? And why now?

[Myra Bronstein]

...

With regard to Hitler, it's clear that there was neither a public execution, nor a startling resurrection. He disappeared from view, officially dead.

As I suggested at the beginning of this thread, I find it intriguing that the Russians have both chosen to display bones that they know any competent pathologist will immediately identify as most likely female, by sight alone, and then further allowed them to be examined by foreign scientists, even if only for a short time.

It's as if the Russians want to undermine the official version that Hitler died in Berlin.

Why? And why now?

Great observation and question Jan!

Does anyone know how many foreign scientists were allowed access to Her Fuhrer's remains? Was it just the one American?

And thanks for uploading the reference material Helen. Most helpful.

[Myra Bronstein]

...

It's as if the Russians want to undermine the official version that Hitler died in Berlin.

Why? And why now?

I'm gonna venture a guess as to 'why now'?

Now we have the internet (who knows for how long...) to disseminate information and news. Whereas before news, no matter how blockbuster or scandalous, could easily be contained and controlled thanks to corporate ownership and CIA infiltration of the mainstream media.

This is the opportune moment.

As far as 'why'-- reading back over this thread it appears that the Russians have consistently asserted that Hitler's corpse was never found.

[Magda Hassan]

As far as 'why'-- reading back over this thread it appears that the Russians have consistently asserted that Hitler's corpse was never found.

Yes, that is true. They were also very desirous of not permitting a memorial site for the fascists to be allowed to happen. That may explain some of the confusion.

Matching Hitler's DNA could be difficult. His relatives in New Jersey changed their surname (see 50 Things by Russ Kick attached). I believe his brother the barkeep died without issue.

But his mother and sister Paula can be used for comparison. We know where they are buried.

With regard to Hitler, it's clear that there was neither a public execution, nor a startling resurrection. He disappeared from view, officially dead.

Yes, very odd. There is also the story of Franco's German gardener. In April 1945 Hitler stopped ordering his anti gas pills which he was addicted to. In May 1945 Franco started ordering them by the case load. One of Franco's drivers, Senor Stefan Aceituna, was sent to collect this 'gardener' from Madrid airport on the night of April 30, 1945 around midnight. There was no luggage and it was a German plane (junker). He was taken directly to the palace. His name was Adi Lupis (Wolf?) Eva was known to have used the name Adi as a nickname for Hitler. In May of 1945 the East wing of Franco's residence in Madrid was sealed off from the rest of the palace and surrounded by a fourteen foot high wall. No explanation of this construction work has ever been forthcoming. The staff assigned to this wing were all fluent in the German tongue.Senor Adi Lupis died of cardio myopathy on November 1, 1947. Dr Victor Vega Diaz, who was also "President of the International Association of Cardiologists" signed the death certificate after being summoned to the palace personally by Generalissimo Franco. Pretty ritzy treatment for a mere gardener.

Stalin himself is said to believe that Hitler was alive either in Spain or South America

Former Secretary of State Jimmy Byrnes in his book "Frankly Speaking" [as quoted in the April 1948 "The Cross and The Flag"]:

While in Potsdam at the Conference of the Big Four, Stalin left his chair, came over and clinked his liquor glass with mine in a very friendly manner. I said to him: 'Marshal Stalin, what is your theory about the death of Hitler?' Stalin replied: "He is not dead. He escaped either to Spain or Argentina.'

Stalin also demanded that the US and Britain invade Spain towards the end of the war.

Why now? I don't know. Obviously Hitler is long dead what ever happened to him. Maybe they are letting people know that so much of what we accept as history is actually just not so. Perhaps they no longer feel obligated to keep other people's secrets secret.

[Paul Rigby]

Tests on skull fragment cast doubt on Adolf Hitler suicide story

Bone with bullet hole found by Russians in 1946 came from an unknown woman, not the German leader

In other news today, MI5 announced the results of its test on an alleged scrotum long held to be Hitler's. It, too, turns out to be female in origin...One source familiar with both the relic, and the broader debate, emphatically and repeatedly denied the wizened sac had once belonged to Daphne Park, the so-called Beast of the Congo, despite the fact no such allegation had been made by his interlocutor.

[David Guyatt]

Yes, very odd. There is also the story of Franco's German gardener. In April 1945 Hitler stopped ordering his anti gas pills which he was addicted to. In May 1945 Franco started ordering them by the case load. One of Franco's drivers, Senor Stefan Aceituna, was sent to collect this 'gardener' from Madrid airport on the night of April 30, 1945 around midnight. There was no luggage and it was a German plane (junker). He was taken directly to the palace. His name was Adi Lupis (Wolf?) Eva was known to have used the name Adi as a nickname for Hitler. In May of 1945 the East wing of Franco's residence in Madrid was sealed off from the rest of the palace and surrounded by a fourteen foot high wall. No explanation of this construction work has ever been forthcoming. The staff assigned to this wing were all fluent in the German tongue.Senor Adi Lupis died of cardio myopathy on November 1, 1947. Dr Victor Vega Diaz, who was also "President of the International Association of Cardiologists" signed the death certificate after being summoned to the palace personally by Generalissimo Franco. Pretty ritzy treatment for a mere gardener.

Stalin himself is said to believe that Hitler was alive either in Spain or South America

More than interesting. Of course it could have been Bormann who is said to have escaped to Spain and thence to Latin America. Or Himmler who almost certainly wasn't the suicide the British claimed. And I do believe that Otto Skorzeny used the name "Wolf" during the war in France (Rennes e Chateau affair) and then went to live in Spain after the war.

[Helen Reyes]

There's always the opposite possibility: Stalin says the Allies have Hitler, plants false trails of human remains evidence, ergo Hitler was in the USSR, not North or South America. My hunch is this isn't true though. If he escaped he went west.

As for why now, I have no idea, is it really now? People have been talking about his survival since 1945, trying to track down leads and witnesses. The shockumentary I happened to catch was on Nat Geo or one of those channels, and seemed to be at least a few years old. They showed the skull fragment in Moscow. They didn't appear to have any scientists or forensics experts with the crew. They didn't question its authenticity per se, although they did present some of the anomalies and questions surrounding the official story.

I have noticed there is a new effort coming out of Russia to rehabilitate Stalin once again. The latest initiative seems to be only a few months old.

I have a collection of FOI docs that come from the CIA and touch on Project Paperclip. A bunch of it is some kind of anniversary celebration document from the German BND translated to English and talks about Gehlen a lot. There are about 30 of these PDFs, they're small, but I'm not sure where to put them, they're not entirely on topic and there are too many of the critters. If anyone wants them, let me know.