Heads Up!

[Albert Doyle]

I think Payette is a full-blown Lone Nutter...




The obvious question to ask Lance Payette is do you believe there was any corruption of the evidence in the Kennedy Assassination? Do you recognize any of the proven conflicts?


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[Mark Russo]

I think Payette is a full-blown Lone Nutter...

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He may be, but, he also asks a question about PM/PW that I (quietly) asked myself quite a few times while that issue was hot, and pondered outside the context of that issue as well:

(quoting LP): If an elaborate conspiracy had been put into place to frame patsy LHO for the assassination of JFK, how could the conspirators possibly have allowed LHO to be anywhere where he might be seen by multiple witnesses or even photographed during the critical time period when he was supposedly in the sixth-floor sniper's test assassinating the President? How could the conspirators possibly have risked blowing the entire conspiracy by allowing Oswald to wander around inside the TSBD or even outside onto the front steps?
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Certainly PP is as worthy of investigation as any other avenue of research, but realistically what are the chances that the one person in the photo who cannot even be reliably identified as a man or a woman "just happens" to be our mysterious friend LHO - and if it is, how on earth did the conspirators allow him to get there? I am now inclined to believe that the accepted timing of the lunchroom encounter is off by enough to have made it more likely that LHO could have descended from the sixth floor to the second. In any event, I would like to hear from someone who can articulate what sense it would have made in the context of an elaborate, well-orchestrated conspiracy to have allowed the patsy to be standing outside the TSBD at the time he was supposed to be in the sixth floor sniper's nest shooting the President.

[Michael Cross]

Unless physically restrained, there are limits on how much control can be asserted over a human being. Nervous human beings tend to behave unpredictably and often irrationally.

[Tracy Riddle]

I think Payette is a full-blown Lone Nutter...

.

He may be, but, he also asks a question about PM/PW that I (quietly) asked myself quite a few times while that issue was hot, and pondered outside the context of that issue as well:

(quoting LP): If an elaborate conspiracy had been put into place to frame patsy LHO for the assassination of JFK, how could the conspirators possibly have allowed LHO to be anywhere where he might be seen by multiple witnesses or even photographed during the critical time period when he was supposedly in the sixth-floor sniper's test assassinating the President? How could the conspirators possibly have risked blowing the entire conspiracy by allowing Oswald to wander around inside the TSBD or even outside onto the front steps?
..
..
Certainly PP is as worthy of investigation as any other avenue of research, but realistically what are the chances that the one person in the photo who cannot even be reliably identified as a man or a woman "just happens" to be our mysterious friend LHO - and if it is, how on earth did the conspirators allow him to get there? I am now inclined to believe that the accepted timing of the lunchroom encounter is off by enough to have made it more likely that LHO could have descended from the sixth floor to the second. In any event, I would like to hear from someone who can articulate what sense it would have made in the context of an elaborate, well-orchestrated conspiracy to have allowed the patsy to be standing outside the TSBD at the time he was supposed to be in the sixth floor sniper's nest shooting the President.

That's exactly what I've asked many times. What if Oswald had been standing right on the Elm St. sidewalk, in plain view and photographed by a half-dozen people? No, Oswald's handler(s) must have been given him instructions to hang around inside the building on the first or second floor. There was a phone in the first floor warehouse. He could have been told to wait for a call at approximately 12:30, and after that he went up to the second floor to get a soda (or something like that).

[Alan Ford]

Unless physically restrained, there are limits on how much control can be asserted over a human being. Nervous human beings tend to behave unpredictably and often irrationally.

An excellent point, Mr. Cross, any sudden deviation to the normal routine movements of someone as sharp as Prayer Man would have jeopardized the plot. No need for his company handlers to spook him.

I believe he was sent to a pre-determined location far away initially from any scrutiny at all by those in the know, but because the motorcade arrived later than usual, their instructions to go here to do this or that before joining us out front as usual simply backfired timing wise (precision is everything--go to an area unseen, then report back to us on the steps, and then when your designated driver takes you to the picture show, we'll conduct a phony roll-call to implicate you behind your back (that's what cowards do). However, when the original plans backfired, it was time to make adjustments to the script on the fly.

"Guests" as you read along, please be aware that there has been some exemplary research conducted on Prayer Man here ----> http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/prayer-man-faq

That said, let it be noted the only reason I am participating in a thread I requested to be closed is because to date it remains open.

[David Josephs]

Certainly PP is as worthy of investigation as any other avenue of research, but realistically what are the chances that the one person in the photo who cannot even be reliably identified as a man or a woman "just happens" to be our mysterious friend LHO - and if it is, how on earth did the conspirators allow him to get there? I am now inclined to believe that the accepted timing of the lunchroom encounter is off by enough to have made it more likely that LHO could have descended from the sixth floor to the second. In any event, I would like to hear from someone who can articulate what sense it would have made in the context of an elaborate, well-orchestrated conspiracy to have allowed the patsy to be standing outside the TSBD at the time he was supposed to be in the sixth floor sniper's nest shooting the President.

The short answer is the FBI and SS were in control of the evidence - all the evidence - and it didn't matter where Oswald was, who might have seen him (think Carolyn Arnold) and what they actually said... the evidence was going to point to Oswald regardless. The fact that 50+ years later we still cannot say who shot JFK appears to me that the elaborate, well-orchestrated conspiracy has yet to be cracked other than to prove Oswald could not have done it.

Now a little deeper... where is Wesley and how does Lovelady get into the Martin film other than lying about where he went.. and who he saw.

Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building.
Mr. BALL - First of all, let's get you to tell us whom you left the steps with.
Mr. LOVELADY - Mr. Shelley.

Shelley corroborates yet the question remains... if that is Lovelady in Martin, standing on the lower steps as Wesley says, why does he never mention being back out front?

In answer to this contextual question we must put our minds into a 1963 frame and reflect on what actually did occur... the FBI and SS controlled the flow of evidence while Joe/Jane Citizen deferred to whatever it was the FBI told them. Even though the Dallas officials were already condemning the conspiracy the FBI and DC was informing Dallas to stop talking conspiracy and focus on Oswald. AF-1 learns of the lone shooter on the flight back. If there was any evidence or any statement that Oswald was seen where PM is captured on film it has not yet surfaced.

Is there anyone left who was walking up those stairs while PM is there?

Q: Where did you watch the parade from, what location?
A: I watched the parade from the top of the steps there, the main entrance into Texas School Books.
Q: Let me impose on you one more time and ask you to leave the witness chair and come down here and point out where you viewed the parade from. Would you do that, please?
A: Right here. It is the main entrance right here. There in the shadows you have several steps and a rail, and I was standing right there at the top of the rail.

Q: Do you recall anyone else who may have been with you?
A: Right down in front of me at the bottom of the steps my foreman Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady were standing there.

I see Lovelady at the top of the steps by the handrail with who I believe to be Shelley in the shadows behind him with the tie.

Where is Wesley in Altgens or Weigman since he all of a sudden shows up at that exact spot and is obviously a head taller than most everyone there?

Furthermore - he puts Shelley and Lovelady at the bottom of the steps - where we find Lovelady in the Martin film.

Q: Where did you go after the noise, if anywhere?
A: I didn't go anywhere. I just stayed right where I was.
Q: Did you ever see Lee Harvey Oswald during that time that you were on the steps in front of the Texas School Book Depository?
A: No, sir, I did not.
Q: Did you go back into the building after the presidential motorcade went under the triple underpass? Did you go back into the Texas School Book Depository?
A: After the shots were fired?
Q: Right.
A: Yes. I stayed there at first and talked to several of the people who worked there in the building. Then some of them started going back inside so I went back inside with some of the others.

Does anyone else see the very tall Wesley in any image prior to or during the shooting as it appears he is in the exact spot Lovelady claims to have been?














Lee Harvey Oswald did not shoot JFK with a rifle from the 6th floor of the TSBD.
He didn't order the rifle, didn't pick it up, didn't move it from Dallas to New Orleans to Irving
He didn't have the opportunity to make a paper sack or get it to the Paines
Ruth claims she would have known if anyone went into the garage the night before - the night Ozzie goes to bed at 9 and Ruth not for a couple more hours
He didn't bring a 40" rifle or multiple pieces of a rifle with a 34" piece to the TSBD
He didn't retrieve and assemble said rifle.
He was not the 30 year old on the 3rd or 4th floor stairs that Baker ran into and puts in his same day affidavit
He was not the same man Mrs Reid sees in only a T-shirt drinking a coke and walking to the front of the 2nd floor
He might have been the guy Craig and others see get into a Rambler
He could not have gotten from the house to Tippit by 1:08 - the time of the shooting
Witnesses see a man coming in from the EAST after passing and being seen at the barber shop
Whaley, the 27 year Dallas taxi cab veteran - puts his destination as Neches and Beckley - which does not exist
He also puts his passenger into a matching work uniform and large blue jacket

The evidence, in its original form, shows JFK being shot multiple times, the limo stopping (http://www.history-matters.com/archive/j..._0243a.htm is a link to the Dallas Sheriff's report on Betzner which states,

"I walked down to where the president's car had stopped".... "These police officers and the men in plain clothes were digging around in the dirt as if they were looking for a bullet"


The actual evidence includes numerous mentions of bullets that disappear including this manhole bullet, the actual bullet found at Parkland, the bullet pulled from JFK's intercostal muscles on the right side per O'Connor and the bullet mentioned in the FBI memo from Belmont to Tolson during the autopsy of a bullet lodged behind JFK's right ear. There is real and tangible evidence for the existence of all of these bullets as well as yet another when the same bullet is supposedly brought to Frasier 2 different times. http://www.jfklancer.com/hunt/mystery.html

The existence and location of the 7:30 version of Q1 - the stretcher bullet - has yet to be found.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html...0&tab=page
CE2011 pages 2-3 explains that the bullet shown Rowley - CE399 - was not the same as the bullet he rec'd from SA Johnson or gave to Elmer Todd. If goes on state that Todd confirms that CE399 with all the initals was the bullet he rec'd from Rowley.

[Tracy Riddle]

The short answer is the FBI and SS were in control of the evidence - all the evidence - and it didn't matter where Oswald was, who might have seen him (think Carolyn Arnold) and what they actually said... the evidence was going to point to Oswald regardless. The fact that 50+ years later we still cannot say who shot JFK appears to me that the elaborate, well-orchestrated conspiracy has yet to be cracked other than to prove Oswald could not have done it.

But photographs are a different matter. Look at the trouble the Altgens photo caused. No one could control it being published by the AP 30 minutes later. Lovelady is far enough in the background, and the image is fuzzy enough, that people are still arguing about it. What if Oswald had been right on Elm St, photographed as clear and sharp as some of the women you can see in those photos?

[David Josephs]

The short answer is the FBI and SS were in control of the evidence - all the evidence - and it didn't matter where Oswald was, who might have seen him (think Carolyn Arnold) and what they actually said... the evidence was going to point to Oswald regardless. The fact that 50+ years later we still cannot say who shot JFK appears to me that the elaborate, well-orchestrated conspiracy has yet to be cracked other than to prove Oswald could not have done it.

But photographs are a different matter. Look at the trouble the Altgens photo caused. No one could control it being published by the AP 30 minutes later. Lovelady is far enough in the background, and the image is fuzzy enough, that people are still arguing about it. What if Oswald had been right on Elm St, photographed as clear and sharp as some of the women you can see in those photos?

As I've posted in the past - if someone ran up to the limo and hit JFK in the head with a bat - the EVIDENCE still would have been Oswald in the TSBD with the rifle.

It's 1963 - You gonna believe the FBI or your lying eyes?

[Albert Doyle]

I was kind of referring to Payette's behavior towards the Money Order evidence. Myself I'd like to take Payette on over the brain evidence and see how far he gets with that legal rhetoric.


As for Prayer Man, you might want to check out my posts on Duncan's site. I've pretty much proven it wasn't Oswald by a height comparison with Frazier.

[Alan Ford]

More than a few excellence points there, Mr. Josephs, and, of course, he who controls the "investigation" controls the outcome...thus:

*no further elaboration on the much older, taller and heavier individual that Baker encountered initially
*no further elaboration on the extra bullets pulled from the soil/grass
*thus never mind that Billy "lying sack of smit" Lovelady contradicts his own testimony
*thus never mind that obvious gunsmoke you clearly can see way down Elm Street up along the picket-fence, where Mr. Holland, etc. heard gunfire seconds before the president's brains were sent flying backwards upon motorcycle officers riding behind him.

and, so on and so on with way too many telling points that more than disprove the BIG lie.

That said, turning our attention to the Martin film and Hughes film alike, where both place Billy "lying sack of smit" Loveday outside even though he lied about being there, upon closer examination upon comparing these two respective films one can easily detect the Zapruder film wasn't the only film altered and tampered with.

IMHO had the presidential limousine been running on time, the wrongfully accused's company handlers had him right where they needed him to be, but due to the late arrival of the motorcade his decoy errand had already run its course, thus his appearance out front where he says he was all along...

http://www.yourepeat.com/watch/?v=xnhKsIVCd00# (Prayer Man figure depicted between the 41-45 second mark)

Again, any "Guests" who are reading along, please feel free to get the core essentials on Prayer Man here ----> http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/prayer-man-faq

Happy Friday! everyone, safe travels should anyone have plans to venture out and about.